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Featured Why Are We Divided and Can We Fix It (With the Holy Ghost)?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Kajiki, Nov 23, 2017.

  1. Kajiki

    Kajiki Member Supporter

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    This is a very serious question I have concerning denominations. Denominations are NOT scriptural. Schisms and differing doctrines (from the one given by the Apostles in their teachings and letters) are to be avoided. How did we get to have over 3000 denominations? How could we fix this? Do people want to fix this? Could a full on ALL Christians ecumenical council occur to join us at least almost fully together? Is this idea of One Church and One Faith a pipe dream until He returns?
     
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  2. faroukfarouk

    faroukfarouk Fading curmudgeon

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    Remember that one externally imposed uniformity by religious leaders would not be the mind of God; it's for every believer to search the Scriptures personally; and for every congregation large or small to take responsibility before God. Letting someone else impose uniformity on oneself and one's congregation is a cop out and would have little to do with having one's conscience stirred by the Holy Spirit about the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ.
     
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  3. Saucy

    Saucy CF's resident Norse Irishman Supporter

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    This is why I'm non-denominational. I'm not going to fall for the lies that one group is the REAL DEAL and everyone else are heretics.
     
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  4. Radagast

    Radagast has left CF

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    Each denomination is a bunch of Christians in unity with each other, and agreeing on stuff.

    That's better than not being in unity with others, and not agreeing on stuff.
     
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  5. Kajiki

    Kajiki Member Supporter

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    I am not in the position to call anyone a heretic however there can only be one truth unless God has multiple personality disorder. How, for instance can a Calvinist be right and an Arminian? I don't have the answers I know I don't. I have hardly even brushed the surface of theological thought. But I want to worship God and lead people to Jesus and what He actually taught. My apologies if this is offensive.
     
  6. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

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    There is an "Ecumenical Movement" going on. "Unity" seems to be what so many are calling for in the Church today. However, we must remember that Scripturally not all unity is of God, and not all division is evil or diabolical. (Jesus Himself said He came "not to bring peace, but a sword.")

    There can be no true unity outside of Christ and the Gospel, and all true, born again believers are already very much united in the Truth.

    Pope Francis has been working toward uniting all denominations, but also all other world religions as well. (Which has angered and confused many, not only Protestants and Evangelicals, but Catholics as well.)

    Many well known Prostestant and Evangelical leaders have formally joined with the Pope, however, and there have also been "joint declarations" signed.

    We are definitely in the "last days."
     
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  7. Kajiki

    Kajiki Member Supporter

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    I would never think all religions should join as one. That is completely crazy. I just wish Christians could band together.
     
  8. Halbhh

    Halbhh Hubble telescope saw in empty sky....galaxies! Supporter

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    Many Christians I've encountered in at least 7 denominations were accepting to me a stranger, so many Christians are following Christ.

    Sometimes you will notice the doctrinaire who love to debate debating, but very many congregants of so many churches are already doing "love one another" with members of other churches not their denomination. This is why I can say we are already one, present tense.
     
  9. Monksailor

    Monksailor Member Supporter

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    My pet peeve is the division of the body of Christ. Satan loves it: divide and conquer. Very close to His apprehension Jesus gave us one of, if not the longest, prayer to the Father (John 17) and I believe the most recurrent theme is UNITY.

    The divisions you and I have complained about are not inherently a Christian problem. This a social human problem precipitated by pride and found in ALL groupings of humanity. The term from Social Science is ETHNOCENTRISM. It is the cause of cliques, gangs, sorority orders, secret high-level economical-political groups, religious denominations and others. The church is NOT, nor can it ever be in this world, a group of perfect people; as ANY other group. Every one still struggles with sin and most, pride. For a feeling of safety, self-worth, significance, and even outright superiority we humans gravitate toward joining/forming groups of others with similar beliefs, ideologies, culture, economic capacity, intelligence, childhood experiences, and more or merely for base considerations such as safety, provision, and sex.
     
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  10. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children

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    So where do your beliefs fall, traditional, new age, dispensationalism, ect. Your beliefs would probably fall into one catorgory of a denomination therefor I do not accept a person saying that they are non-denominational.

    If you were to list your beliefs then I am sure that the folks reading would understand what denomination you are following wheather you belong to that denomination or not.

    If you have the message of the sanctuary in heaven then we would know that you are probably a Seventh-day Adventist like me as no other denominations teachs this.

    Psalm 77:12-13 King James Version (KJV)
    12 I will meditate also of all thy work, and talk of thy doings.

    13 Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?
     
  11. Halbhh

    Halbhh Hubble telescope saw in empty sky....galaxies! Supporter

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    I'm starting to get it's really just this simple:

    "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."

    Do this and you bear fruit on the vine: John chapter 15. It's a must-do also. No less than a salvation question, because of Matthew 7:24-27
     
  12. Halbhh

    Halbhh Hubble telescope saw in empty sky....galaxies! Supporter

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    Interesting: I've found in many denominations that once I talk with 3, 4, 6 people, that they do not agree with each other about very basic things, even to the level of knowing about Ephesians 2:10 for example. So, do that test inside a church, and you'll find a whole range of viewpoints, and hardly even 2 that agree on all of say a dozen pertinent questions.

    And that's ok!

    What does matter? It's the real thing that matters, as I point some of just above, re John 15, and Matthew 7.
     
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  13. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Most divisions are caused by useless tradition.
     
  14. Monksailor

    Monksailor Member Supporter

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    Yes, but no one is perfect and most, even devout religious people, struggle with pride which impedes and even negates love at times. Sure a Christian can claim the forgiveness of 1 John 1:9 but the consequences of division usually remain, esp if confession and one's attempt at resolve is put off. So understanding the problem as an inherent problem of humanity, regardless of grouping, can more easily allow any group more objectively address the problem; less of a personal issue but rather an issue of Social Science which can be studied to see how it has been discovered how we function as social creatures. This understanding can immensely aid our attempts at loving others as we should; to see those we would otherwise not "hang with" and in another clique as being just like us in that they "hang" in their group to fulfill some specific personal need and not essentially so that they can feel superior to or better than or on a better path than us.
     
  15. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

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    All true believers are already "one" in Christ. I was simply pointing out that not everything that calls itself "Christian unity", is.

    The "Ecumenical Movement" is something every Christian does well to research and be aware of.

    God bless.
     
  16. Monksailor

    Monksailor Member Supporter

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    I hear you. We ARE one in Christ, yet God allows us our free will and to be individually inspired and counseled by the Holy Spirit and His Word which is described as "living and active" by the Apostle Paul in Hebrews. If God did not intend for His flock to be full of variables I do not think His Word would have to be "living and active." In Romans 14 we read all about God's allowance of differing points of view beyond the basic doctrine of salvation. Excerpts indicative of this are as follows (but I suggest a full reading of Romans 14:1-15:13):

    vs. 5-6 "One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God."
    vs. 12-13 "So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
    Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister."
    vs. 19 "Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification."
    vs. 22 "So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves."
     
  17. Kajiki

    Kajiki Member Supporter

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    Thank you for posting this! Now if only the denominations could make that effort. I know some do but I believe Catholics are apart of this too and a lot of Protestants seem against them.
     
  18. Ignatius the Kiwi

    Ignatius the Kiwi Newbie

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    The problem with your idea is that some Christians don't consider it necessary that we be unified in the first place. Visible communion, the recognition and sharing of each others sacraments is not something everyone finds important. If we can't all agree that visible communion is necessary and that the current state of Christendom is unacceptable then calling for such a council would result in nothing.

    A council was organised and used by those who accepted the same premises and beliefs. Those who attended Chalcedon accepted Nicaea and those who attended Nicaea 2 accepted Chalcedon. Unity to the extent Christians can accomplish it I think can only work between two communions officially recognising the other. As a purely hypothetical if the EO and OO were to unify that might make achieving unity stronger, especially with the RCC.

    This isn't even to talk about internecine conflicts within our own churches.
     
  19. Monksailor

    Monksailor Member Supporter

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    That road goes both ways, friend. I remember once I included a Catholic in the fellowship of Christians and by his response I might as well have made a snide remark about his beloved mother. He them informed me that he was a Catholic and definitely not a Christian.
     
  20. Monksailor

    Monksailor Member Supporter

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    By "included a Catholic in the fellowship of Christians" I meant in dialogue as "we Christians" not taking him to a Protestant service.
     
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