Why Are We Divided and Can We Fix It (With the Holy Ghost)?

[Monksailor]

Most divisions are caused by useless tradition.

I agree, but causes tradition?

 

[GingerBeer]

This is a very serious question I have concerning denominations. Denominations are NOT scriptural. Schisms and differing doctrines (from the one given by the Apostles in their teachings and letters) are to be avoided. How did we get to have over 3000 denominations? How could we fix this? Do people want to fix this? Could a full on ALL Christians ecumenical council occur to join us at least almost fully together? Is this idea of One Church and One Faith a pipe dream until He returns?

A single council held right now would have almost no hope of uniting every Christian into a single church. I think it would be next to impossible to get Evangelicals and the older Protestant denominations to unite in a single council and those churches have a lot more in common than they do with Catholic, Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox Christians.

 

[W2L]

I agree, but causes tradition?

Could you rephrase please, thanks.

 

[Radagast]

The problem with your idea is that some Christians don't consider it necessary that we be unified in the first place.

Unification is easy. Let's all (except me) throw our beliefs away, and let everybody accept mine.

You don't like that? Thought not.

 

[SweetPlum]

I don't see any issue with different denominations. I don't see it as being divided, but rather having our own interpretations on the bible. It's okay to have different views. It only starts being a problem when you say yours is the right way and someone else's is wrong.

 

[dqhall]

This is a very serious question I have concerning denominations. Denominations are NOT scriptural. Schisms and differing doctrines (from the one given by the Apostles in their teachings and letters) are to be avoided. How did we get to have over 3000 denominations? How could we fix this? Do people want to fix this? Could a full on ALL Christians ecumenical council occur to join us at least almost fully together? Is this idea of One Church and One Faith a pipe dream until He returns?

Some churches emphasized contributing more to the building fund, others wanted to spend more to help the poor. There are also differences in the order of worship and Biblical interpretation. I have noticed some preachers used the New Testament while other preachers were preaching from the Old Testament. I think divisions may be a sign of people competing for God's favor. I read online there are 72 churches in my area. There are also church groups online. I found a YouTube sermon yesterday. It was a good sermon from a pastor of a different race. There are too many divisions that can not be easily healed.

 

[AlexDTX]

This is a very serious question I have concerning denominations. Denominations are NOT scriptural. Schisms and differing doctrines (from the one given by the Apostles in their teachings and letters) are to be avoided. How did we get to have over 3000 denominations? How could we fix this? Do people want to fix this? Could a full on ALL Christians ecumenical council occur to join us at least almost fully together? Is this idea of One Church and One Faith a pipe dream until He returns?

Are the prayers of Jesus ineffective?

Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.​

Is Paul being rhetorical when he asks this question?

1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided?
​

Is the Father weak and unable to obtain what He desires?

Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.​

Your question is carnal and from a natural mind, not from the Spirit. The body of Christ is united in the Spirit, not in the soul. The human spirit has been joined to the Lord (1 Cor. 6:17) for all who have the new birth. The soul and body will not be redeemed until the second coming of Christ. Just because people call themselves Christians, if they do not have the new birth they are not part of the body of Christ. They are part of the visible church, not the invisible Church which comes without observation (Luke 17:20).

Doctrines are of the soul, not the Spirit. I don't care what denomination (which is merely a business franchise) a person participates in, if I sense the Spirit in their speech and manner, I know they are my brothers and sisters in Christ.

Most of the discussions on this forum are carnal and from a natural mind, not the Spirit. Those that are in the Spirit tend not to have many readers. But get a good carnal discussion on academic doctrine, nor some way to justify sin, and you have lots of people involved.

Mat_7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:​

 

[chilehed]

This is a very serious question I have concerning denominations. Denominations are NOT scriptural... How could we fix this?...

By each of us, individually, joining the original Church that Christ founded and that still exists today, submitting to the authority that He gave Her.

 

[Devin P]

This is a very serious question I have concerning denominations. Denominations are NOT scriptural. Schisms and differing doctrines (from the one given by the Apostles in their teachings and letters) are to be avoided. How did we get to have over 3000 denominations? How could we fix this? Do people want to fix this? Could a full on ALL Christians ecumenical council occur to join us at least almost fully together? Is this idea of One Church and One Faith a pipe dream until He returns?

I believe it's because too many things are open to personal opinion. When people realize that Jesus never did away with Torah it takes the personal opinion away, and suddenly the 40000+ denominations can't exist.

Those that followed and understood that Torah was to be observed were all martyred and killed off, and God Himself prophesies that in the end we'll come to realize Torah is meant to be followed as that we'll desire to obey Him.

That, and when we realize that faith in Jesus makes us Israel, there's not really reasons for different denoms. I belong to a fellowship group where we all disagree about a lot, but it's fine. Regarding salvation we all agree. That our salvation is only a gift that can't be earned, but gifted by the sacrifice of Jesus, and our gratitude is faith that walks itself out by obedience. The reason we have so many denoms is because not only do people not want to obey God, but since they're obeying man made tradition, it leaves room for paternal interpretation regarding how to be obedient, when God gives us clear instructions on how to be obedient.

 

[Ron Gurley]

"I just wish Christians could band together.".

They have. From Pentecost forward. See the first assembly.(CHURCH =
...Greek 1577...ekklēsia...

1. a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly
2. an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating
   
3. the assembly of the Israelites
   
4. any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously
   
5. in a Christian sense
   1. an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
      
   2. a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake
      
   3. those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body
      
   4. the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth
      
   5. the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven

Acts 2:
41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.
42 They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship,
to the breaking of bread and to prayer.
43 Everyone kept feeling a sense of awe;
and many wonders and [aq]signs were taking place through the apostles.
44 And all those who had believed "were together and had all things in common";
45 and they began selling their property and possessions and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need.
46 Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house,
they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart,
47 praising God and having favor with all the people.
And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.

Any human effort to a "universal church" is satanic and a sign of the anti-christ. An END TIMES symptom!

Jesus' truth:

Matthew 10:34
“Do not think that I came to bring peace (unity?) on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

A sword DIVIDES...assemblies, denominations, families, etc.

Here is the TRUE "CHURCH"...

"The Living Church Stones souls of today..."

The "CHURCH" ("The Living Church?") is the collective "Body" of BELIEVERS,
the members of the "Body of Christ"
who are permanently indwelt by
God the Holy Spirit at the time of their Salvation.
The "Head" and the "Corner Stone" is God the Son, the historical person of
Jesus of Nazareth, The Christ, The Messiah, The God-Man.
He is the "Bridegroom".
Revelations 22: 17 The (God the Holy) Spirit and the "bride" (CHURCH) say, "Come "
Its "building blocks" are the "Grace through Faith" good news which guides the estranged to become a saved BODY + SOUL + SPIRIT.

Ephesians 4: 2-6; 1 Corinthians 1:10; Ephesians 1:22; Ephesians 5:23; Colossians 1:18; Revelation 22:16; Psalm 118:22; Isaiah 28:16;
Matthew 21: 42-45

Revelation 21:9...PROPHECY for the FUTURE
“Come here, I will show you the "Bride" (CHURCH), the wife of the Lamb.” (Jesus the Divine Christ)

Matthew 25 (NASB)...The "Bridegroom" is Jesus...The virgins are the "CHURCH"...Parable of Ten Virgins
1 “Then the "kingdom of heaven" will be comparable to ten virgins,
who took their lamps and went out to meet the "Bridegroom".
13 Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.
( when Jesus comes back for His "CHURCH" )

Psalm 118:22
The stone (Jesus) which the builders (Israel) rejected has become the chief corner stone.(of the CHURCH)

Isaiah 28:16
Therefore thus says the Lord GOD,
" Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a tested stone, a costly cornerstone
for the foundation, firmly placed.
He who believes in it will not be disturbed.

 

[Devin P]

Are the prayers of Jesus ineffective?

Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.​

Is Paul being rhetorical when he asks this question?

1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided?
​

Is the Father weak and unable to obtain what He desires?

Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.​

Your question is carnal and from a natural mind, not from the Spirit. The body of Christ is united in the Spirit, not in the soul. The human spirit has been joined to the Lord (1 Cor. 6:17) for all who have the new birth. The soul and body will not be redeemed until the second coming of Christ. Just because people call themselves Christians, if they do not have the new birth they are not part of the body of Christ. They are part of the visible church, not the invisible Church which comes without observation (Luke 17:20).

Doctrines are of the soul, not the Spirit. I don't care what denomination (which is merely a business franchise) a person participates in, if I sense the Spirit in their speech and manner, I know they are my brothers and sisters in Christ.

Most of the discussions on this forum are carnal and from a natural mind, not the Spirit. Those that are in the Spirit tend not to have many readers. But get a good carnal discussion on academic doctrine, nor some way to justify sin, and you have lots of people involved.

Mat_7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:​

His question is not a carnal one, it's a wise a perceptive one. You yourself said denominations are merely franchises, exactly, they are. To adhere to a franchise, and not God's word is carnal, but the OP's question is far from carnal.

 

[salt-n-light]

This is a very serious question I have concerning denominations. Denominations are NOT scriptural. Schisms and differing doctrines (from the one given by the Apostles in their teachings and letters) are to be avoided. How did we get to have over 3000 denominations? How could we fix this? Do people want to fix this? Could a full on ALL Christians ecumenical council occur to join us at least almost fully together? Is this idea of One Church and One Faith a pipe dream until He returns?

Treading in some heavy waters with this post lol! Too many people hold dear to their Christian breed on this site.

For what its worth, I'm with you. But there's alot of division because alot of people are without the Holy Spirit. They rather follow teachings and philosophy of people than God. Knowing that alot of us like our ears tickled, the only way it will be "fixed" will be under a New World Order "Church", where people are falsely unified in "God" or universe, or whatever higher power people wanna believe in. People are heavily divided when it comes to matter of God, but political stances, educational stuff, philantrophy stuff, humanistic stuff, less division.Easier to join. It would be a Tower of Babel 2.0. By that time, that will be the falling away of the church.

Church of Corinth went through the same issues (1 Corinthians 1:10-31).

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Hi what is the source of the division? that is usually doctrine. Why do people reading the same book have different interpretations of the same words? There are different lenses you can read the scriptures through. The Eccumenical movement will stress unity and not emphasize doctrine as they must to include everyone. The Bible warns that in the last days men will no longer endure sound doctrine. Jesus told the Pharisees that they were teaching the precepts of man as the doctrines of God. Paul in 1 Tim Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,

As you can see the word expresses that near the end of this age a lack of sound doctrine and a promotion of demonic doctrine will be a plenty. I think I can share one of the doctrines of demons that is trying to raise its head and that is salvation in any tradition, which includes those who do not believe Jesus as Lord and savior. In the Masonic lodge when you join you are told to pick the book that represents your path towards God and they have all the holy books from all religions on a table. You then are asked why you have come and you are told to answer that you have come to seek the light and at every step up the ladder you are told you are seeking more light. When you get to the top degrees 32 or 33 they reveal to you that Lucifer is the light bearer.

The people who are running the world are seriously involved in this Masonic philosophy and have infiltrated to the heads of universities and seminaries and places of power in government and media towards a inversion of good and evil is being promoted. The Bible teaches that in the beginning God created them male and female and that they are one flesh and for this cause a man shall leave his father an mother and cleave to his wife. This idea is now illegal to express as you might offend a transgender person and discrimination against same sex marriage. The devil promises freedom and liberty as an excuse to allow filth and inappropriate contentography. He teaches us that tolerance and equality are the highest virtues rather than obedience to Gods word and holiness. There is one gospel by which men will be saved and the saved are sealed by God with the Holy Spirit and have the same redemption and adoption into the family of God. It is important to have unity in essential doctrine and grace everywhere else. The essential doctrines would call out and eliminate some groups such as Mormon or JW based on Galatians 1. which states if I or anyone even an angel from heaven preach another gospel other than the one already preached let hem be accursed.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Response to post #33:

Masonic philosophy...
Mormon...
JW's..

How about the RCC? Protestants? Fundamentalists? Evangelicals? Non-denominationals?

Are you going to condemn them all based on YOUR perceived "truth"??

I am led by the principle of "Scriptura Suprema"...the spiritually inspired "word of God"...I cannot go wrong!

 

[Monksailor]

Could you rephrase please, thanks.

I agree, but WHAT causes tradition? I am sorry for the omission.

 

[JoeP222w]

This is a very serious question I have concerning denominations. Denominations are NOT scriptural. Schisms and differing doctrines (from the one given by the Apostles in their teachings and letters) are to be avoided. How did we get to have over 3000 denominations? How could we fix this? Do people want to fix this? Could a full on ALL Christians ecumenical council occur to join us at least almost fully together? Is this idea of One Church and One Faith a pipe dream until He returns?

Denominations are not what define Christianity and Christianity is not divided on foundational truths of the gospel of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit is the one who will preserve the body of Christ, not man.

If people have left the truth of the Bible, they are simply not Christian.

There is one Church and one Faith and it crosses many denominational lines.

 

[Ron Gurley]

"Eccumenical movement"

How the Pope uses the "ecumenical movement" to silence Protestant criticism

The Ecumenical Movement

Ecumenism - Wikipedia

World Council of Churches - Wikipedia

It is claimed the KGB has infiltrated and influenced past WCC councils and policy.

The World Council of Churches has been described as taking an adversarial position toward the state of Israel.

Opposition to Christian Zionism
Christian Zionism, which has long represented a substantial proportion of historic and contemporary Protestants, is characterized as a view which "distort(s) the interpretation of the Word of God" and "damage(s) intra-Christian relations".

 

[JoeP222w]

How, for instance can a Calvinist be right and an Arminian?

Those aren't denominations. One is consistent with Biblical truth, one is not.

 

[Monksailor]

Hi what is the source of the division? that is usually doctrine. Why do people reading the same book have different interpretations of the same words? There are different lenses you can read the scriptures through. The Eccumenical movement will stress unity and not emphasize doctrine as they must to include everyone. The Bible warns that in the last days men will no longer endure sound doctrine. Jesus told the Pharisees that they were teaching the precepts of man as the doctrines of God. Paul in 1 Tim Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,

As you can see the word expresses that near the end of this age a lack of sound doctrine and a promotion of demonic doctrine will be a plenty. I think I can share one of the doctrines of demons that is trying to raise its head and that is salvation in any tradition, which includes those who do not believe Jesus as Lord and savior. In the Masonic lodge when you join you are told to pick the book that represents your path towards God and they have all the holy books from all religions on a table. You then are asked why you have come and you are told to answer that you have come to seek the light and at every step up the ladder you are told you are seeking more light. When you get to the top degrees 32 or 33 they reveal to you that Lucifer is the light bearer.

The people who are running the world are seriously involved in this Masonic philosophy and have infiltrated to the heads of universities and seminaries and places of power in government and media towards a inversion of good and evil is being promoted. The Bible teaches that in the beginning God created them male and female and that they are one flesh and for this cause a man shall leave his father an mother and cleave to his wife. This idea is now illegal to express as you might offend a transgender person and discrimination against same sex marriage. The devil promises freedom and liberty as an excuse to allow filth and inappropriate contentography. He teaches us that tolerance and equality are the highest virtues rather than obedience to Gods word and holiness. There is one gospel by which men will be saved and the saved are sealed by God with the Holy Spirit and have the same redemption and adoption into the family of God. It is important to have unity in essential doctrine and grace everywhere else. The essential doctrines would call out and eliminate some groups such as Mormon or JW based on Galatians 1. which states if I or anyone even an angel from heaven preach another gospel other than the one already preached let hem be accursed.

Don't the free masons go higher than 33? I had an old parchment certificate with gold seals attached and multiple signatures and such for a higher level like 36 or 37, I think. It belonged to a relative from whom I inherited all of his books and papers and it was mixed in it all. The person it was awarded to was not my relative as it was a totally different name. He must have been holding it for him or such. My relative was in in a highly regarded profession.

 

[Monksailor]

Hi what is the source of the division? that is usually doctrine. Why do people reading the same book have different interpretations of the same words? There are different lenses you can read the scriptures through. The Eccumenical movement will stress unity and not emphasize doctrine as they must to include everyone. The Bible warns that in the last days men will no longer endure sound doctrine. Jesus told the Pharisees that they were teaching the precepts of man as the doctrines of God. Paul in 1 Tim Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,

As you can see the word expresses that near the end of this age a lack of sound doctrine and a promotion of demonic doctrine will be a plenty. I think I can share one of the doctrines of demons that is trying to raise its head and that is salvation in any tradition, which includes those who do not believe Jesus as Lord and savior. In the Masonic lodge when you join you are told to pick the book that represents your path towards God and they have all the holy books from all religions on a table. You then are asked why you have come and you are told to answer that you have come to seek the light and at every step up the ladder you are told you are seeking more light. When you get to the top degrees 32 or 33 they reveal to you that Lucifer is the light bearer.

The people who are running the world are seriously involved in this Masonic philosophy and have infiltrated to the heads of universities and seminaries and places of power in government and media towards a inversion of good and evil is being promoted. The Bible teaches that in the beginning God created them male and female and that they are one flesh and for this cause a man shall leave his father an mother and cleave to his wife. This idea is now illegal to express as you might offend a transgender person and discrimination against same sex marriage. The devil promises freedom and liberty as an excuse to allow filth and inappropriate contentography. He teaches us that tolerance and equality are the highest virtues rather than obedience to Gods word and holiness. There is one gospel by which men will be saved and the saved are sealed by God with the Holy Spirit and have the same redemption and adoption into the family of God. It is important to have unity in essential doctrine and grace everywhere else. The essential doctrines would call out and eliminate some groups such as Mormon or JW based on Galatians 1. which states if I or anyone even an angel from heaven preach another gospel other than the one already preached let hem be accursed.