Judas was saved and then lost his salvation

[LoveofTruth]

When did Judas fall?

During Jesus' physical ministry or the outpouring of the HOLY SPIRIT upon all those who would believe?

Judas fell before jesus died and before the Holy Spirit was poured out. in John 17, ( before the cross and before the day pf Pentecost) Judas was lost and the others were saved, as Jesus said. We know at a certain time Satan entered into Judas. We could say that was a major point f his fall. But when exactly we don't know.

But for sure we do know that there was a time when he was a sheep sent by jesus and his familiar friend in whom he once trusted, before he lifted up his heel against jesus and betrayed him. This is clear in scripture to the unbiased reader.

 

[miknik5]

Satan also knew and was given the job as a Covering angel

He wasn't happy with THE PLAN and he didn't want to cover

 

[LoveofTruth]

What defeats the Calvinistic view (which you seem to have an issue with) is CHRIST's command (regardless of the views of men) to "GO"

Romans 10 also defeats the Calvinistic view

Many things defeat the calvinistic view. Infant salvation is one of them.

 

[miknik5]

Judas fell before jesus died and before the Holy Spirit was poured out. in John 17, ( before the cross and before the day pf Pentecost) Judas was lost and the others were saved, as Jesus said. We know at a certain time Satan entered into Judas. We could say that was a major point f his fall. But when exactly we don't know.

But for sure we do know that there was a time when he was a sheep sent by jesus and his familiar friend in whom he once trusted, before he lifted up his heel against jesus and betrayed him. This is clear in scripture to the unbiased reader.

Good that was the point

The HOLY SPIRIT had not yet been given

And even John who was born of woman was seen as great yet not as great as the least in the kingdom

Judas never entered into the kingdom

 

[LoveofTruth]

Satan also knew and was given the job as a Covering angel

He wasn't happy with THE PLAN and he didn't want to cover

Lucifer was a covering Cherub and perfect in all his ways. Scripture doesn't say he wasn't happy doing that for a time. At a certain point iniquity was found in him and he abode not in the truth. He was once in the truth and abode not. Believers in the truth also must abide in the truth or they can fall away as many scriptures can be brought to show. Just look up the word "abide" and you will find many

 

[miknik5]

Wait. He might have afterwards

But this we don't know
Other than he was not born again of CHRIST's SPIRIT

Even Peter who betrayed the LORD three times was not born again until afterwards

But in this life, he was forgiven and entered into the TRUE KINGDOM which Judas did not understand

 

[miknik5]

Judas when he betrayed the LORD though he knew better than THE SON of GOD on how to establish "the kingdom"

Judas thought he was helping the cause and thought to speed along "the kingdom"

But CHRIST's KINGDOM is not if this world

Something Judas did not understand and something Peter was severely rebuked about MISunderstandjng

 

[LoveofTruth]

Good that was the point

The HOLY SPIRIT had not yet been given

And even John who was born of woman was seen as great yet not as great as the least in the kingdom

Judas never entered into the kingdom

No this is not right either. You seem to forget the trinity, The Spirit of the father was in them Matthew 10 before the cross and the Spirit of Christ ( the Son, the word)

Jesus said ( before the cross0 unless a person is born again they cannot see the kingdom. But while speaking of the mysteries of the kingdom jesus told the apostles that their eyes see ( the kingdom) but to those that are without ( without the kingdom) it is done in parables.

All Ot saints had the Spirit of Christ yet not the baptism with et Holy Ghost. OT saints had measures of the Holy Ghost power . But their salvation was being quickened by the word of God through the Spirit. The Holy Spirit baptists all men into the body of Christ. and jesus baptises with the Holy Ghost. Jesus said the words that he spoke were spirit and they were life John 6:63.

all OT saints ate the same spiritual meat and spiritual drink that we eat and drink of for salvation and to have Christ in us, for they ate of that spiritual rock that followed them and that Rock was Christ. Jesus said he that believes ( before the cross0 hath everlasting life and IS PASSED ( present tense) from death to life ( before the cross, though not without the cross in time) God calls men saved by their faith in his righteousness.

This is a 800 page discussion and easily proven from scripture. i need to do a thread on OT salvation and the new birth in the OT.

 

[miknik5]

Lucifer was a covering Cherub and perfect in all his ways. Scripture doesn't say he wasn't happy doing that for a time. At a certain point iniquity was found in him and he abode not in the truth. He was once in the truth and abode not. Believers in the truth also must abide in the truth or they can fall away as many scriptures can be brought to show. Just look up the word "abide" and you will find many

I don't want to talk about lucifer, the dragon, Satan anymore

He will NOT have salvation!

 

[miknik5]

No this is not right either. You seem to forget the trinity, The Spirit of the father was in them Matthew 10 before the cross and the Spirit of Christ ( the Son, the word)

Jesus said ( before the cross0 unless a person is born again they cannot see the kingdom. But while speaking of the mysteries of the kingdom jesus told the apostles that their eyes see ( the kingdom) but to those that are without ( without the kingdom) it is done in parables.

All Ot saints had the Spirit of Christ yet not the baptism with et Holy Ghost. OT saints had measures of the Holy Ghost power . But their salvation was being quickened by the word of God through the Spirit. The Holy Spirit baptists all men into the body of Christ. and jesus baptises with the Holy Ghost. Jesus said the words that he spoke were spirit and they were life John 6:63.

all OT saints ate the same spiritual meat and spiritual drink that we eat and drink of for salvation and to have Christ in us, for they ate of that spiritual rock that followed them and that Rock was Christ. Jesus said he that believes ( before the cross0 hath everlasting life and IS PASSED ( present tense) from death to life ( before the cross, though not without the cross in time) God calls men saved by their faith in his righteousness.

This is a 800 page discussion and easily proven from scripture. i need to do a thread on OT salvation and the new birth in the OT.

And GOD by THE SPIRIT went back to redeem all those OT saints who had waited for the PROMISE but had not lived to see THEIR SALVATION (visibly seen and found in CHRIST JESUS)

What did you think it meant that these were in service to us that they did not know that they would not be made perfect without us

Or what did you think CHRIST meant when HE said Abraham longed to see MY DAY?

 

[LoveofTruth]

Wait. He might have afterwards

But this we don't know
Other than he was not born again of CHRIST's SPIRIT

Even Peter who betrayed the LORD three times was not born again until afterwards

But in this life, he was forgiven and entered into the TRUE KINGDOM which Judas did not understand

No I disagree strongly. Peter was born again and even had the Spirit of God in him. He was not baptized with the Holy Ghost however until after pentecost.

we see this clearly here,

"13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?...But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven" ( Matthew 16:13-17 KJV)

Here we see that Peter said Jesus is the Christ the Son of God and this was by revelation of the Father. Peter was blessed in this. and this is evidence that he was born again as we see here,

'15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God." ( 1 John 4:15 KJV)

Peter said Jesus was the Son of God, and so had God dwelling in him. and

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:..." ( 1 John 5;1 KJV)

and Peter confessed that Jesus is the Christ and so was born of God.

 

[miknik5]

No man was ever born of HIS SPIRIT until the ONE who would pour out HIS SPIRIT had come

These OT saints prophecied by THE SPIRIT of CHRIST pointing forward to the day

For the very TESTIMONY of JESUS is the spirit of prophecy

today those who are born of HIS SPIRIT are also called to testify as HIS WITNESSES pointing all men to CHRIST that they may believe and be saved

 

[LoveofTruth]

I don't want to talk about lucifer, the dragon, Satan anymore

He will NOT have salvation!

Salvation is when a person is in the truth and in eternal life walking with God in righteousness. Lucifer once had that and fell, that was the point. and no he will not have that again, as scripture teaches. Angels seem to have no chance for redemption because they had full knowledge, humans are ignorant and weak and do not have such knowledge. Thats how I understand that part at least.

 

[miknik5]

No I disagree strongly. Peter was born again and even had the Spirit of God in him. He was not baptized with the Holy Ghost however until after pentecost.

we see this clearly here,

"13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?...But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven" ( Matthew 16:13-17 KJV)

Here we see that Peter said Jesus is the Christ the Son of God and this was by revelation of the Father. Peter was blessed in this. and this is evidence that he was born again as we see here,

'15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God." ( 1 John 4:15 KJV)

Peter said Jesus was the Son of God, and so had God dwelling in him. and

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:..." ( 1 John 5;1 KJV)

and Peter confessed that Jesus is the Christ and so was born of God.

CHRIST asked who do the people say I AM?

HE had already testified of HIMSELF enough for men to have believed and made a right judgement

But not all men did make a right judgement (John 8)
In fact they kept asking whonis your father showing they did not believe CHRIST's testimony of who HE had said HE IS

Peter made a right judgement and it was upon this confession that CHRIST would build HIS BODY

Peter was washed but had not been born again

None had

Furthermore CHRIST states this "you are clean,,,,
BUT NOT ALL (and this was directed at Judas!) (John 13)

None had the HOLY SPIRIT because the SPIEIT had not yet been given since JESUS had not yet been glorified

 

[LoveofTruth]

No man was ever born of HIS SPIRIT until the ONE who would pour out HIS SPIRIT had come

These OT saints prophecied by THE SPIRIT of CHRIST pointing forward to the day

For the very TESTIMONY of JESUS is the spirit of prophecy

today those who are born of HIS SPIRIT are also called to testify as HIS WITNESSES pointing all men to CHRIST that they may believe and be saved

No this is not accurate again. The OT saints had the Spirit of Christ in them 1 Peter 1 This was the word of God sown in their hearts as all have, but they heard the word of God come to them to their understanding.

David said "thy word hath ( past tense) quickened me". To be quickened ( or made alive) by the word of God is to be born again. Peter said we are born again by the incorruptible sed which is the word of God. Jesus speaking of the seed sown in the heart which is the word of God said if men believe that word they will be saved.

Jesus said to a man before the cross, this day salvation is come. Jesus said to the apostles before the cross , none of them is lost.

I can bring so many examples of OT salvation it is overwhelming. OT saints were born again by the word of God in them. This word is quick and powerful and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. I am not just speaking of scripture here. Abraham had this word or the seed ( which is Christ ) in him also as Galtians 3 says.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Judas fell before jesus died and before the Holy Spirit was poured out. in John 17, ( before the cross and before the day pf Pentecost) Judas was lost and the others were saved, as Jesus said. We know at a certain time Satan entered into Judas. We could say that was a major point f his fall. But when exactly we don't know.

But for sure we do know that there was a time when he was a sheep sent by jesus and his familiar friend in whom he once trusted, before he lifted up his heel against jesus and betrayed him. This is clear in scripture to the unbiased reader.

I still disagree that he was a sheep sent by Jesus anywhere, because I don't think the disciples were sent out until after Jesus death.

Yes, they had been given the power to cast out demons, and how ironic for Judas how that ended up.

 

[LoveofTruth]

CHRIST asked who do the people say I AM?

HE had already testified if HIMSRLF enough for men to have believed and made a right judgement

But not all men did make a right judgement

Peter made a right judgement and it was upon this confession that CHRIST would build HIS BODY

Peter was washed but had not been born again

None had

None had the HOLY SPIRIT because the SPIEIT had not yet been given since JESUS had not yet been glorified

You are wrong here as I have shown.

Peter also did not know who Jesus was but by inward revelation of the father. Peter already belonged to the father before he was even given to Jesus John 17:6. and as i showed by confessing Jesus was the Christ the Son of God that showed he was born again and saved. Jesus called peter of his own household and said that the Spirit of the father would speak in him when needed and called peter a sheep sent to the Lost sheep. Jesus said he gives eternal life to his sheep .

I know some here have never been taught a right about these things and it shakes their doctrines. But scripture is clear on this and I am not alone in teaching on OT salvation. There are many who see this.

 

[LoveofTruth]

I still disagree that he was a sheep sent by Jesus anywhere, because I don't think the disciples were sent out until after Jesus death.

Yes, they had been given the power to cast out demons, and how ironic for Judas how that ended up.

Well scripture corrects you here and with great intensity. Matthew 10 is before the cross and Jesus sent them out giving them power to cast out devils. One time many came back to jesus and he said don't rejoice that the devils are subject unto you, but that your names are written in the Lambs book of life ( this was before the cross).

You need to reconsider much of your doctrine in this area..

 

[LoveofTruth]

Jesus sent them out as sheep to the Lost sheep read Matthew 10 KJV

Jesus said his sheep hear his voice and he knows them and he gives unto them eternal life. When Jesus called Matthew he said follow me, immediately Matthew got up and followed jesus. This is because he was his sheep. jesus said his sheep hear his voice and they follow him.

 

[LoveofTruth]

I still disagree that he was a sheep sent by Jesus anywhere, because I don't think the disciples were sent out until after Jesus death.

Yes, they had been given the power to cast out demons, and how ironic for Judas how that ended up.

When Jesus sent them out Matthew 10 and other places. He told them not to go to the gentiles or samaritans. But after the death of host he sent them to all the world.