Judas was saved and then lost his salvation

[Thomas Woods]

So It would have been better if Judas would have stayed put?

 

[LoveofTruth]

So It would have been better if Judas would have stayed put?

It would have been better if Judas had not been born

which Jesus said

"
Matthew 26:24
The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

and so if Jesus says it was better not to be born, it looks like God did not make him sin or act as if this whole salvation couldn't ave happened if Judas didn't sin.

 

[Thomas Woods]

Then who betrays Jesus? How does Jesus get to the cross? I think John is a good candidate.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Then who betrays Jesus? How does Jesus get to the cross? I think John is a good candidate.

It already happened so it doesn't help to think that way. We could imagine 1000 scenarios or more

 

[ToBeLoved]

lol if you are not lost what are you?

Jesus said that the apostles eyes se the things of the kingdom and except a man is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. They saw

I am found and saved by the blood of Christ.

Are you lost?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Matthew 10:6

"6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

He is telling them what to do in the future, after His death.

So when did Jesus have His disciples go out for lost sheep before His death? That was your implication, that Judas was sent out for lost sheep along with the other disciples. I would like scripture to show that.

 

[LoveofTruth]

I am found and saved by the blood of Christ.

Are you lost?

I was referring to Jesus saying none of them is lost. If they weren't lost then what were they? found is the answer, saved.

 

[LoveofTruth]

He is telling them what to do in the future, after His death.

So when did Jesus have His disciples go out for lost sheep before His death? That was your implication, that Judas was sent out for lost sheep along with the other disciples. I would like scripture to show that.

Jesus sent them out in Matthew ten to go all over and to speak to towns and is real etc. This message extends to all those who are sent of all time. But that was specific there

 

[ToBeLoved]

I was referring to Jesus saying none of them is lost. If they weren't lost then what were they? found is the answer, saved.

I think maybe you need to slow down.

Who gives us, the saved people to Jesus Christ? It is the Father.

John 10:29
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

John 6:36-37
36 But as I told you, you have seen Me and still you do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will never turn away. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me.
[URL='http://biblehub.com/john/6-65.htm'][/URL]
[URL='http://biblehub.com/john/6-65.htm']John 6:65
Then Jesus said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him."[/URL]
http://biblehub.com/greek/5495.htm
So Jesus is talking about the people that the Father has given to Him and their salvation. So above when Jesus says that none is lost, He is talking about those who the Father has given to the Son.

 

[Sammy-San]

Was this part of God's plan. Jesus needed to save us all from our sins. So Judas did what he did. He was supposed to do it. Otherwise people would sleep late on Sundays, instead of going to Church and giving thanks.

But why did Satan want Judas to betray Jesus?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Jesus sent them out in Matthew ten to go all over and to speak to towns and is real etc. This message extends to all those who are sent of all time. But that was specific there

You need to list verses, I'm not trailing all over after them behind you.

 

[ScottA]

you need to be corrected here my friend, and to examine scripture more closely.

In Matthew 10 Jesus says

"...go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel....16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves:" ( Matthew 10:6,16)

here you can see clearly that the apostles he sent were not lost sheep, but found saved sheep. This is so clear to the unbiased reader. The word "Lost" means to destroy fully to perish . The opposite of lost is found or saved. Saved meaning to be complete or made whole, to deliver, protect heal, preserve.

we see in scripture that we are saved, being saved and shall be saved as we overcome to the end by continual faith.

"15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain."(1 Corinthians 15:1,2 KJV)

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."

Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God"

Colossians 1:23
If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel,..."

1 Timothy 2:15
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety."

Romans 5:9
"Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."

and

1 Samuel 2:1
And Hannah prayed, and said, My heart rejoiceth in the Lord, mine horn is exalted in the Lord: my mouth is enlarged over mine enemies; because I rejoice in thy salvation."

Psalm 18:46
The Lord liveth; and blessed be my rock; and let the God of my salvation be exalted.

Exodus 15:2
The Lord is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father's God, and I will exalt him.

Isaiah 12:2
Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the Lord Jehovah is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation."

Luke 19:9
And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham."

"
John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life..." (present tense "Hath" before the cross)

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." (hath, present tense, and "Is: passed from death to life, present tense.

You need to go back again and learn the first principles of the oracles of God and have need of milk not meat.

You are confusing the process of salvation with the end result. You can't just go all over the map picking out bits to make a case for your way of thinking, when the end is the end. All of your quotes are not the end, but lead up to it. Salvation is the end.

You also mention something about the first and the last and the dead in Christ. That expression the dead in Christ shall rise first as Paul spoke refers to all believers from Adam until Christ comes who have died in the faith and salvation in Christ. If any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of his. Abraham had the Spirit of Christ in him , the seed as all believers do Galatians 3.

Here you violate the basic premises of God, that "The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit." 1 Corinthians 15:45 Abraham was born of the first Adam. These are the chosen, the Last of whom is Christ. They, though they were first, are last to be "saved" in the process of receiving the Holy Spirit - but are "sealed" in the death of Christ.

We who are "alive" by the Holy Spirit and "remain", are the "last" who are "first" to be saved.

But you are not clear on these things and should cease and desist - you speak of what you do not know.

 

[Sammy-San]

you are trying to mix other doctrines into this one. God predestines the plan of salvation that those who believe will be conformed to the image of his son. God does not make men sin or tempt men to sin. Christ is not the minister of sin as some teach he is.

and just because prophecy showed Judas betraying jesus and it was foreknown, doesn't mean God made him do it.

Many misunderstand prophecy and scriptures that showed what was going to happen

 

[JacksBratt]

I don't see, anywhere in scripture, that states that all the disciples were saved. Some don't even get it until they see Christ after His resurrection.

Can someone show me scripture that states that Judas was saved because I don't believe he was. He was the treasurer and it was common knowledge that he stole from their funds. He was a tag along at best.

 

[ScottA]

speaking of OT prophets

"11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow." (1 Peter 1:11)

You have completely missed the chronology of what Peter was saying:

10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 12 To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into."

...He has explained that they merely "testified" of "the glories that would follow"...the end of which is the coming of the Holy Spirit - not that they were born of the Holy Spirit already.

This is just one example of your inability to discern the scriptures - you need to stop preaching in such error!

 

[Winken]

I don't see, anywhere in scripture, that states that all the disciples were saved. Some don't even get it until they see Christ after His resurrection.

Can someone show me scripture that states that Judas was saved because I don't believe he was. He was the treasurer and it was common knowledge that he stole from their funds. He was a tag along at best.

They weren't "saved," in the Christian sense of that term. They acknowledged that Jesus was the Promised Hebrew Messiah; they looked for the implementation of the "Kingdom of God" on earth in that day. Jesus would be their redemption, which is what the Abrahamic Covenant called for.

Judas was not "saved," nor did He acknowledge Jesus as the Promised Messiah.

 

[Standing Up]

Yes I do. He is said to have belonged to the father

So you're thinking Judas did not belong to the Father? You can't have it both ways. Besides, all of the apostles "fell away" as prophesied.

Where is it said that Judas or anyone was born again prior to Christ's resurrection?

 

[bcbsr]

Judas was not under the New Covenant. The New Covenant did not come into effect until Acts 2. As such Judas is irrelevant.

But as for Eternal Security, is it not written, "Sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace." Rom 6:14 Sin does not master the destiny of believers as believers are under grace and not under law. Those who are under law are under a curse, For "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."" Gal 3:10

Those who reject eternal security reject God's grace and opt for a performance based salvation in which one's salvation is contingent upon one's ongoing performance, which is the curse of the law.

 

[Cair Paravel]

I believe Judas had the opportunity to get saved right until the moment he hanged himself. There was hope for Peter to repent, why not for Judas? At least that's what I've been taught. The alternative would be a state where Judas was eternally condemned while he walked on this earth, and that's a really scary thought. No sin is greater than Jesus can forgive, right? Every soul can find solace by coming to Jesus?

 

[toLiJC]

No I believe s scripture shows that he went to his own place and better for him that he was never born and he was blotted out of the book of the living ( or the book of life) and no longer written with the righteous, for only they are in that book. Psalms 69, also referred to in Acts 1 about Judas. Jesus said the 11 were not lost but Judas was lost in John 17

i don't accuse/judge(doom) you, but in so speaking you can only make the Lord out to be a liar, because He is a Savior, not a son of destruction, moreover, He is the good Shepherd Who had always been ready to give His life for the sheep:

John 10:11-18 "I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. I am the good shepherd... and I lay down my life for the sheep... Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.",

John 6:70-71 "Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.",

John 15:16 "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.",

Matthew 18:10-14 "Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish."

so if the Son of God left judas iscariot, then wouldn't many (be able to) say things such as "Why did Jesus Christ leave one of His twelve sheep to be caught by the wolf(devil) if He is really not a hireling, but the good Shepherd?!"?!

remember how the good Shepherd, Jesus, preferred not to run away from judas and the men that came with judas to arrest Him, but to stay in gethsemane knowing that the lost sheep, judas, will come there, just as He says in the above passages (of John 10 and Matthew 18) - He said these things before the case with his arrest in gethsemane

also, judas iscariot was righteous in principle, but had suffered from kleptomania, because he had been possessed by spirit of kleptomania, remember how he had the bag in which people put cash benefits, but went to offer the pharisees to betray Jesus to them for coins, yes, jusdas was obsessed with coins, either silver, copper, gold or of another metal, small or big, etc., though he didn't spend money, which is why he still had the bag when he was at the last supper with Jesus

John 13:29 "some of them thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy those things that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor."

Blessings