Is inappropriate behavior with animals a Sin? What Does the Bible Say?

[YHWH's Lion]

So is your argument sexual immorality does not include inappropriate behavior with animals?

The argument is what defines sexual immorality? The Law of God does, it explains what is sin.
The same law Christians are told over and over again is Done Away With.

 

[Hillsage]

s

so pretty much you are saying that our individual conscience influenced by the holy spirt will convict us what is sin?
so when John says "sin is the transgression of the law" that means nothing because there is no law right?

Not at all. I already quoted you a verse telling you what law we are not to follow and that is "the law of sin and death". You wanting to make that law 'the law of Moses' is simply your problem to work out IMO. I never had to read the whole OT to figure out what was sin. I received a holy spirit to help in that regard. And He convicted me of sin... and sins, long before I read a verse confirming what the holy spirit convicted me of.

someone raised in the jungles of Africa will have the same understanding what is sin as someone raised in Canada ?

What is sin for someone in Canada may not be a sin in Africa and vice versa. When missionaries went to Africa and found them all naked they made them put clothes on because they were sinning. If you believe they were right, then you are just as legalistic as they were IMO. Where is the verse that tells you those missionaries were right?

Because you cannot be a Christian and go on sinning. but in order to stop one must first know what sin is. and that is revealed to us by God's Law.

One does not have to be 'OF the faith' to still be 'IN the faith'. Becoming 'a Christian' to be 'IN the Christian faith' only takes a 'new birth'. While becoming 'Christian/Christ like' takes a long time in the walk 'OF the faith'. And I knew what sin was because I had His convicting spirit in me. If you can't relate to that, then I can see why 'the law book' seems so important to you.

 

[thisgospel]

Can someone give me a clear answer on this question : Christians says that the Law ( ten commandments and law of moses is done away with, nailed to the cross) is it OK to participate in inappropriate behavior with animals? this was forbidden in the law of Moses but since that is nailed to the cross that means it's Ok right? if NO than please tell me why not and according to what law?

How do we explain this? I think Paul already did a perfect job. There are no confusion or contradictions here.

When Paul said that we are not under the Law what did he mean? Did he say that the Law had been abolished? No, he didn't say that. But he did say that we are not under the law if we walk in the Spirit.

There is one verse that explains it perfectly.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1)

What does it mean? It means that when we sin, we have forgiveness if we do it out of ignorance.

Simply put, we do not mete out the punishment that the Law requires when someone breaks that Law. For an example, when someone commits inappropriate behavior with animals, he is not stoned to death. Why? Because Jesus said:

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. (John 8:7)

There is another incident in the Bible that supports this view:

It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. (1 Corinthians 5:1)

This person was forgiven when he repented.

 

[KIRKBIBLE]

Part of the Jewish Law included the laws found in the Old Testament. When Paul said that non-Jews, (Gentiles) are no longer bound by these laws, he is not saying the Old Covenant laws do not apply today. He is saying, certain types of laws, as in the (over 600 Ceremonial laws and rituals, and many of the Civil laws), may not apply.

Ceremonial Law: This type of law related to Israel's worship. (Lev 1:1-13) The laws pointed forward to Jesus Christ and were no longer necessary after Jesus' death and resurrection. Though we are no longer bound to them, the principles behind the ceremonial laws, to worship and love God, still apply.

Civil Law: This law dictated Israel's daily living (Deut 24:10-11); but modern society and culture are so radically different that some of these guidelines cannot be followed specifically. The principles behind the commands are to guide our conduct. Many of these laws were also to guide the conduct of those observing certain things that were legal at that time.

Moral Law: The moral laws are direct commands of God. A good example are the Ten Commandments (Ex 20:1-17). The moral laws reveal the nature and will of God, and still apply to us today. We do not obey this moral law as a way to obtain salvation, but to live in ways pleasing to God.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

I think we have another troll here.

 

[Reyes4Christ]

Short answer, oh heck no.

The problem with modern christianity and organized religion in general is that there are many denominations and popularly held beliefs that are really no more than false doctrine from the devil himself. The law that God created has no beginning or ending, it has always been so and will always be in effect. Jesus did not get rid of his own laws. He did however show that the oral traditions that the religious leaders who were in charge of the Holy Temple in Jerusalem were not correct and that only the law of God given to Moses was what was to be followed.
Its like if Jesus came down to earth right now and started exposing all the false doctrine that is out there right now and went against our current religious traditions, would people be happy with him or mad at him? If the old laws were done away with why would he do that? What if it was just some stranger that did that? If some stranger walked into a trunk or treat celebration or santa celebration at a church and started flipping tables would people see him as holy or as evil? What if he exposed false faith healers or people who speak in gibberish tongues. What if he rallied against people who only hold Sunday as the sabbath day? Christians today are the same as the Jews of the old testament. We are following oral traditions instead of the Word. Don't be fooled by thinking that some of Gods laws are nullified. They are not. Jesus did not come to get rid of the laws of God, he came to show how they can be fulfilled. Any act that God saw as detestable or evil or as an abomination will always remain as such. End of story.

 

[brixken7]

Short answer, oh heck no.

The problem with modern christianity and organized religion in general is that there are many denominations and popularly held beliefs that are really no more than false doctrine from the devil himself. The law that God created has no beginning or ending, it has always been so and will always be in effect. Jesus did not get rid of his own laws. He did however show that the oral traditions that the religious leaders who were in charge of the Holy Temple in Jerusalem were not correct and that only the law of God given to Moses was what was to be followed.
Its like if Jesus came down to earth right now and started exposing all the false doctrine that is out there right now and went against our current religious traditions, would people be happy with him or mad at him? If the old laws were done away with why would he do that? What if it was just some stranger that did that? If some stranger walked into a trunk or treat celebration or santa celebration at a church and started flipping tables would people see him as holy or as evil? What if he exposed false faith healers or people who speak in gibberish tongues. What if he rallied against people who only hold Sunday as the sabbath day? Christians today are the same as the Jews of the old testament. We are following oral traditions instead of the Word. Don't be fooled by thinking that some of Gods laws are nullified. They are not. Jesus did not come to get rid of the laws of God, he came to show how they can be fulfilled. Any act that God saw as detestable or evil or as an abomination will always remain as such. End of story.

"Jesus did not get rid of his own laws"?
No, what about the laws regarding sacrifices? What about the Sabbath, which he "annulled" (John 5:18; CLNT)? What about all the yearly "feasts of the Lord"? What about tithing -- are you able to pay a tenth of your wages to the Levitical priesthood?

What I have found is that if an Old Testament command is not in some way corroborated in the New Testament, then it's not for us today. As for God's command regarding inappropriate behavior with animals, while the New Testament does not, to my knowledge, SPECIFICALLY address this issue, nevertheless inappropriate behavior with animals is forbidden in the New Testament. It's forbidden by Romans 13:1-5, in which God tells us we must be subject to the laws of the land, and probably MOST, if not all countries have laws against inappropriate behavior with animals. Furthermore, only Eve was found suitable to be a "help" for man -- none of the animals that God had created (Genesis 2:20).

-- Ken

 

[Dave-W]

To the OP:

No matter what you think of the 10 commandments, the law of sin and death, or the Law of Moses; there is still the issue of the four commandments.

Never heard of them? They are in Acts 15 and are binding on ALL non-Jewish believers in Jesus. They are:

abstain from things contaminated by idols
abstain from fornication
abstain from meat that is strangled
abstain from blood

v 20 and 29.

The word in the greek for "fornication" is inappropriate contentia, and as far as I can tell it was used in the Jewish diaspora community (the leadership of the congregations) to mean anything prohibited sexually in the Law of Moses. So no matter if Moses was taken away or not, that remains.

 

[redleghunter]

Can someone give me a clear answer on this question : Christians says that the Law ( ten commandments and law of moses is done away with, nailed to the cross) is it OK to participate in inappropriate behavior with animals? this was forbidden in the law of Moses but since that is nailed to the cross that means it's Ok right? if NO than please tell me why not and according to what law?

It's wrong because the moral law was never nailed to the cross. Jesus upheld the moral law. Jesus fulfilled the types and shadows depicted in the Law and practiced by Israel. Those types and shadows were fulfilled and literally nailed to the cross.

The moral law was again confirmed by the apostles in their epistles.

inappropriate behavior with animals was clearly addressed by Christ. Only the union of one man and one woman is right in God's eyes and that transcends the Mosaic Law. Jesus said "as it was in the beginning." (Matthew 19)

So any sexual relationship outside of what Jesus stated is sin and/or abomination. Paul confirms such in Romans as does Christ again in Revelation.

Now that was a bit dry and straightforward. However as we see in Ezekiel 36 God promises those who He fills with His Holy Spirit will have His statutes (laws) written on their hearts and He will cause us to walk in them. That's quite a promise and the ultimate test of faith and trust in the Finished Work of Christ.

The above is what Jesus Christ was trying to get across to Nicodemus in John 3, but at the time he did not have the ears which could hear.

 

[redleghunter]

No it is not OK...according to the 'law of sin and death'.

ROM 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

So if you follow the spirit of life you don't become a victim of sin and death.

I think that is the most succinct but effective answer here. You have effectively encapsulated Ezekiel 36 nicely. Thanks.

 

[redleghunter]

what is the law of sin and death ? What where can I read about what it says is sin? How can someone know what is sin?

For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.
Ezekiel 36:24-27 NASB
http://bible.com/100/ezk.36.24-27.NASB

 

[redleghunter]

christians use what jesus said about the commandmemts to "proove" he done away with the 10 commandments. now we simply have to "love God and love neighbour" well how do we know if we love God, how do we know if we love neighbour? How do we know what sin is ? like I said if it's now just what we "think" Than it is Ok for some one to do one thing and not Ok for anothe, because to someone one thing is sin but not to another. inappropriate behavior with animals was not Ok according to christianity in the old testament because it was a law. but now christianity says all of those laws have been "done away with" the question isn't whether it is sick or unacceptable because that's just your opinion. unless you can proove it with scripture, it's just your opinion. and according to most christians since there is no law there is no sin.

Yes but love your neighbor does not imply his livestock.

What are you really getting at?

 

[redleghunter]

If you must read then you would be led by your head. Jesus' recommendation is for you to be led by the Spirit in this world. And the Spirit has convinced/convicted me of sins that aren't in the book.

JOH 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 And when he comes, he will convince/convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:

Again spot on.

 

[redleghunter]

s

so pretty much you are saying that our individual conscience influenced by the holy spirt will convict us what is sin?
so when John says "sin is the transgression of the law" that means nothing because there is no law right?
someone raised in the jungles of Africa will have the same understanding what is sin as someone raised in Canada ?
when culture and society brainwashed people to believe that what is sin is not sin and when they believe it with their heart it is not sin? whether christians like it or not the laws of God stand as a witness against them. Because you cannot be a Christian and go on sinning. but in order to stop one must first know what sin is. and that is revealed to us by God's Law.

Recommend reading the entire epistle of Paul to the Romans. He clearly showed our relationship with the Law. Those in Christ uphold the Law.

I guess the best approach is to ask yourself if following the Law justifies you in God's eyes. I would start looking at that first. Then all the other pieces fall in place.

If one believes the Law justifies, sanctifies and glorifies them, then they have no reason to follow Christ. But they would have to follow the Law perfectly as the Father in Heaven is perfect. There was only One Man who did so and He is the Propitiation of our sins.

 

[YHWH's Lion]

Short answer, oh heck no.

The problem with modern christianity and organized religion in general is that there are many denominations and popularly held beliefs that are really no more than false doctrine from the devil himself. The law that God created has no beginning or ending, it has always been so and will always be in effect. Jesus did not get rid of his own laws. He did however show that the oral traditions that the religious leaders who were in charge of the Holy Temple in Jerusalem were not correct and that only the law of God given to Moses was what was to be followed.
Its like if Jesus came down to earth right now and started exposing all the false doctrine that is out there right now and went against our current religious traditions, would people be happy with him or mad at him? If the old laws were done away with why would he do that? What if it was just some stranger that did that? If some stranger walked into a trunk or treat celebration or santa celebration at a church and started flipping tables would people see him as holy or as evil? What if he exposed false faith healers or people who speak in gibberish tongues. What if he rallied against people who only hold Sunday as the sabbath day? Christians today are the same as the Jews of the old testament. We are following oral traditions instead of the Word. Don't be fooled by thinking that some of Gods laws are nullified. They are not. Jesus did not come to get rid of the laws of God, he came to show how they can be fulfilled. Any act that God saw as detestable or evil or as an abomination will always remain as such. End of story.

That is Truth.

 

[Jaxxi]

Can someone give me a clear answer on this question : Christians says that the Law ( ten commandments and law of moses is done away with, nailed to the cross) is it OK to participate in inappropriate behavior with animals? this was forbidden in the law of Moses but since that is nailed to the cross that means it's Ok right? if NO than please tell me why not and according to what law?

Exodus 22:19 under Ordinances for the People" Whoever lies with an animal will surely be put to death."
Leviticus 18:23 declares, “Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.” Leviticus 20:15-16 commands, “If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal. If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.” Deuteronomy 27:21 agrees, “Cursed is the man who has sexual relations with any animal.” From these verses, it is abundantly clear that, according to the Bible, inappropriate behavior with animals is a horrible, unnatural, and abominable sin.

Why is inappropriate behavior with animals condemned so strongly? First, it is an unnatural perversion. Clearly, human beings were designed/intended to mate with other human beings, not animals. In the creation account, none of the animals were “suitable” for Adam (Genesis 2:20). Second, inappropriate behavior with animals represents the ultimate of sexual deviancy. The fact that the animal was to be put to death (Leviticus 20:15-16), despite the fact that it would be “innocent,” indicates how wickedly perverse inappropriate behavior with animals is. Third, and perhaps most importantly, inappropriate behavior with animals essentially denies the uniqueness of humanity which God created in His image (Genesis 1:27). inappropriate behavior with animals lowers humanity to nothing more than an animal, a beast which is unable to distinguish right from wrong, natural from unnatural, love from lust.

The New Testament nowhere mentions inappropriate behavior with animals, but that should not be interpreted as an allowance for inappropriate behavior with animals or a weakening of how strongly God condemns inappropriate behavior with animals. While the Old Testament Law was fulfilled with the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15), the Law, in most instances, is still a guidepost for what is right or wrong, moral or immoral.

 

[YHWH's Lion]

Not at all. I already quoted you a verse telling you what law we are not to follow and that is "the law of sin and death". You wanting to make that law 'the law of Moses' is simply your problem to work out IMO. I never had to read the whole OT to figure out what was sin. I received a holy spirit to help in that regard. And He convicted me of sin... and sins, long before I read a verse confirming what the holy spirit convicted me of.


What is sin for someone in Canada may not be a sin in Africa and vice versa. When missionaries went to Africa and found them all naked they made them put clothes on because they were sinning. If you believe they were right, then you are just as legalistic as they were IMO. Where is the verse that tells you those missionaries were right?

One does not have to be 'OF the faith' to still be 'IN the faith'. Becoming 'a Christian' to be 'IN the Christian faith' only takes a 'new birth'. While becoming 'Christian/Christ like' takes a long time in the walk 'OF the faith'. And I knew what sin was because I had His convicting spirit in me. If you can't relate to that, then I can see why 'the law book' seems so important to you.

You said” If you must read then you would be led by your head. Jesus' recommendation is for you to be led by the Spirit in this world. “

With that reasoning we have no need for the bible what so ever, we have no need for the teachings of Jesus what so ever. We can just depend of the Spirit to teach us everything.

It is through reading ALL of God’s word (including his Law) and through the His spirit we learn what is right and wrong. (1 John 2:1 – These things WRITE I unto you that you sin not) There are many Christians that claim to be led by the spirit, yet two different Christian can be convicted by the spirit differently about what is and isn’t sin. How is this possible? We must test the spirits and we can test them by looking to see if the spirit contradicts God’s word. God left us his word to be a lamp unto our feet and God sent his spirit to help us understand his word.

The spirit will not contradict Gods Law, it might elevate Gods law just as Jesus did when he elevated some of the commandments. Gods Law is holy and the commandments holy and just and good. “By this do we know Christ, if we keep his commandments, he that says I know him and keeps not his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments, for this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments and his commandments are not grievous.” We are to reverence God and keep his commandments, this is the whole duty of men. Also Rev 14:12, Rev 12:17, Can it be any more clear? that’s a lot of talk about commandments that have been done away with, ones that we shouldn’t concern ourselves with right?. In the Old Testament the penalty for sin was handed out on the spot. Now the penalty for sin will be handed out at the end of time. The Law stands as a witness against all humanity. Ignorance of God’s Law by a person who commits an offence is not an excuse for committing that offence. People can choose to pretend that the Law has been done away with yet the Bible clearly says Sin is the Transgression of the Law.

Lets finish your quote : John 16:7 you left out V9, V10, V11“Of sin because they believe not on me.”

Jesus explains what he meant when he said this.

You Said” And the Spirit has convinced/convicted me of sins that aren't in the book.”

If you can give one example that would be appreciated, as most sins can fit into the umbrella of Laws in the Bible.

You Said “What is sin for someone in Canada may not be a sin in Africa and vice versa…”

People in Africa if they steal kidnap, commit incest, homosexuality, inappropriate behavior with animals, murder, cannibalism, if in their society that is acceptable does that mean those things aren’t sin?

Society can legislate what ever laws they want but their legislated laws do not make the “acts” not Sin if they contradict God’s Law.

Whether what the missionaries did was right is debatable. However could they have been following the same spirit you are talking about? The same spirit that may convict someone one way and someone another? If someone is following the spirit you cannot against sin and maybe through this save a soul?

You said: And I knew what sin was because I had His convicting spirit in me. If you can't relate to that, then I can see why 'the law book' seems so important to you.

I suggest you read Psalms 119 and see how important the Law is.
The Devil did an amazing think making people believe that the Law is done away with and that they need only be led by the spirit alone. It gives him the chance to deceive people because they are not looking at Gods word and just trusting what they feel.

We are not saved by keeping the Law, we are saved by Jesus Christ, but because we Love him we try (by being led by the spirit) to obey God/Christ’s Laws and apply what we can to our lives.

I will leave you with the words of Jesus:
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of LAWLESSNESS.

 

[Hillsage]

You said” If you must read then you would be led by your head. Jesus' recommendation is for you to be led by the Spirit in this world. “

With that reasoning we have no need for the bible what so ever, we have no need for the teachings of Jesus what so ever. We can just depend of the Spirit to teach us everything.

You are making a 'bar ditch' response to my middle of the road position. In case you missed it...everything in red in my posts is SCRIPTURE. I study them, but I don't worship them and I don't need them to know what sin God is dealing with in my life.

How is this possible? We must test the spirits and we can test them by looking to see if the spirit contradicts God’s word. God left us his word to be a lamp unto our feet and God sent his spirit to help us understand his word.

MAT 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

Do you know the difference between written scripture 'words' which were "inspired" by God and "every word that PROCEEDS out of the mouth of God"? There is no original autograph scripture 'word' anywhere, and the number of differing translations out there based upon indoctrinated and 'brain led' translators is almost amazing.

“By this do we know Christ, if we keep his commandments, he that says I know him and keeps not his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his/JESUS commandments, for this is the love of God, that we keep his/JESUS commandments and his/JESUS commandments are not grievous.” We are to reverence God and keep his commandments,

Since when did the NT "commandments of Christ" become the OT "commandments of Jehovah"? Read your verses above as I do and they say nothing about following something written in the OT. They have done away with walking in the 'written' shadow to walk in the 'spiritual' light.

GAL 3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, and do them."

You trust 'the law' and I'll trust in Christ and the promised Spirit of truth.

GAL 3:14 that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

this is the whole duty of men. Also Rev 14:12, Rev 12:17, Can it be any more clear?

Your first scripture is very 'clear'.
REV 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven

I don't think "hearing a voice" is reading the written law and this scripture pretty clearly confirms the point I'm making.

REV 12:17 Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God....

And what exactly are "the commandments of God"...in the NEW COVENANT according to SCRIPTURE? You say 'the LAW of Moses', but what say scripture concerning that 'the Law'?

2CO 3:7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones (THE LAW!!!), came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?

Pursue death of the dead letter of the 'faded' Law if you must, but "we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit."

Shorten your posts, it makes answering too long.

 

[timewerx]

Ok first of all you didn't address anything I wrote. Secondly I did not say we are without sin. Bible says in Romans 4:15 "for where there is no law there is no transgression" and 1 john 3:4 " sin is transgression of the law. that would be the conclusion from the verses above if the the lie that has been fed to christianity is true "that the Law has been dons away with"

That is confusing and disturbing at the same time.

I'll pretend I did not read this... Or I'll go crazy or may already have!

 

[NaturalSinner]

I would say it is certainly not okay.