Abiogenesis and Evolution

[whois]

I've experienced healing without taking anything.....pure faith.

i must point out that this type of thing IS NOT common, but it IS consistent.
what is really curious about this is, if this can be coupled with epigenetics.
if so, then the ramifications for humanity is astounding.
a small handful of people . . .

 

[justlookinla]

According to whois, it is pure placebo effect and has nothing to do with God.

Ok.

 

[justlookinla]

i must point out that this type of thing IS NOT common, but it IS consistent.
what is really curious about this is, if this can be coupled with epigenetics.
if so, then the ramifications for humanity is astounding.
a small handful of people . . .

Right, it's not common.

 

[malvina]

I can fill up books of the 50 years of healings and miracles in my life and lives of those I've ministered to I ran a large Christian Book and Drop-in Centre for 20yrs without a dollar or asking for help except to the Lord. - 4 large shops. If we had a need we just prayed and it would come in the door - from people all over South Australia right out in the country Someone would pass by have prayer and get help then send people to me with antiques and all kinds of blessings. The healings to my body is a testimony alone. But you cannot convince a non-believer of this no matter how much you try - they only believe if they want to.
I know there will be some here that will say like 'it was all your imagination' as my daughter once did even though she was with me a few times when things happened she closed her inside eyes and mind to them simply because she had chosen a life-style that didn't include The Lord and that's how it is with everyone - we believe what we want to believe according to the life we want to lead. I ask God to bless everyone and become closer to Him,
God Bless You

 

[bhsmte]

to I can fill up books of the 50 years of healings and miracles in my life and lives of those I've ministered to I ran a large Christian Book and Drop-in Centre for 20yrs without a dollar or asking for help except to the Lord. - 4 large shops. If we had a need we just prayed and it would come in the door - from people all over South Australia right out in the country Someone would pass by have prayer and get help then send people to me with antiques and all kinds of blessings. The healings to my body is a testimony alone. But you cannot convince a non-believer of this no matter how much you try - they only believe if they want to.
I know there will be some here that will say like 'it was all your imagination' as my daughter once did even though she was with me a few times when things happened she closed her inside eyes and mind to them simply because she had chosen a life-style that didn't include The Lord and that's how it is with everyone - we believe what we want to believe according to the life we want to lead. I ask God to bless everyone and become closer to Him,
God Bless You

If prayer heals, why does God let 9 million children die each year before the age of five.

You think these children's families and parents aren't desperately praying for them?

 

[justlookinla]

If prayer heals, why does God let 9 million children die each year before the age of five.

You think these children's families and parents aren't desperately praying for them?

What does it matter, they're nothing but relatively worthless sacks of chemicals, aren't they?

 

[malvina]

If prayer heals, why does God let 9 million children die each year before the age of five.

You think these children's families and parents aren't desperately praying for them?

If you Believed in Him you wouldn't have to ask that question
You can see a couple of miracles in my new blog. a child on her 3rd birthday and Jotta

 

[Faith77]

to I can fill up books of the 50 years of healings and miracles in my life and lives of those I've ministered to I ran a large Christian Book and Drop-in Centre for 20yrs without a dollar or asking for help except to the Lord. - 4 large shops. If we had a need we just prayed and it would come in the door - from people all over South Australia right out in the country Someone would pass by have prayer and get help then send people to me with antiques and all kinds of blessings. The healings to my body is a testimony alone. But you cannot convince a non-believer of this no matter how much you try - they only believe if they want to.
I know there will be some here that will say like 'it was all your imagination' as my daughter once did even though she was with me a few times when things happened she closed her inside eyes and mind to them simply because she had chosen a life-style that didn't include The Lord and that's how it is with everyone - we believe what we want to believe according to the life we want to lead. I ask God to bless everyone and become closer to Him,
God Bless You

I, too, have experienced far more "coincidences" than an average person's fair share. I can accept that maybe some physical healings have been nothing more than the placebo effect, but I don't know how to explain things that involve genes (birth of children without birth defects when they were expected to, or having a child healed of effects when a gene is still deleted) or things involving other people, like purchasing and sale of homes. In the end, there's no way I could prove anything because those things are not amenable to empirical testing.

But with regards to the original post, I don't think anything has to change. I think the evolution is a brilliant mechanism. Yes, it may seem random, but randomness does not equate to meaninglessness.

 

[WeakButHopeful]

As a Christian I have no problem with evolution being part of God's plan, and I further strongly believe that Jesus, if he posted to this thread, would ask that we make His Father's plan more a part of our (Christians') plans. In other words, I believe that arguing about matters such as evolution or faith healing is similar to the straw men that Jesus' opponents used to erect ("why did you pick ears of corn on the Sabbath Jesus, huh?" or "which brother is the husband of that widow, huh?).

Granted, I agree that forum threads are a valid and reasonable social exercise for exchanging ideas among Christians and between Christians and others. However, many aspects of these debates end up revisiting points and counterpoints that have been covered in books, some of them quite old, yet written by good thinkers who took time to study the pros and cons. I have always found C. S. Lewis (originally an atheist who converted) to be an exceptionally sharp mind and in books like "Miracles", and "Mere Christianity" he covered much of this ground. There is also Pasal's Wager https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager and I would also recommend G. K. Chesterton's works, he was another very intelligent author.

That's my 2 cents.

 

[justlookinla]

As a Christian I have no problem with evolution being part of God's plan, and I further strongly believe that Jesus, if he posted to this thread, would ask that we make His Father's plan more a part of our (Christians') plans. In other words, I believe that arguing about matters such as evolution or faith healing is similar to the straw men that Jesus' opponents used to erect ("why did you pick ears of corn on the Sabbath Jesus, huh?" or "which brother is the husband of that widow, huh?).

Granted, I agree that forum threads are a valid and reasonable social exercise for exchanging ideas among Christians and between Christians and others. However, many aspects of these debates end up revisiting points and counterpoints that have been covered in books, some of them quite old, yet written by good thinkers who took time to study the pros and cons. I have always found C. S. Lewis (originally an atheist who converted) to be an exceptionally sharp mind and in books like "Miracles", and "Mere Christianity" he covered much of this ground. There is also Pasal's Wager https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager and I would also recommend G. K. Chesterton's works, he was another very intelligent author.

That's my 2 cents.

The problem is that in some views of evolution, mankind is simply the result of an evolutionary random creation process, no plan, purpose or goal. Mankind is nothing more than a randomly created sack of chemicals in certain evolutionary views.

Christianity teaches that mankind is more than that and that we aren't the products of a random, mindless, meaningless, purposeless and goalless process (Darwinist evolution).

 

[Faith77]

The problem is that in some views of evolution, mankind is simply the result of an evolutionary random creation process, no plan, purpose or goal. Mankind is nothing more than a randomly created sack of chemicals in certain evolutionary views.

Christianity teaches that mankind is more than that and that we aren't the products of a random, mindless, meaningless, purposeless and goalless process (Darwinist evolution).

Just because it appears that there is no plan, purpose or goal doesn't mean that that's the case. Of course, we could never prove that God intended to guide the process, but what's to say that it is unguided? We can only say that it happens randomly, but we can't say that God didn't design it that way, or that every random mutation wasn't already known and planned by Him. Science cannot infer God, but I don't have a problem with science, as long as it does what it does best - provide hypotheses for what we can observe, and from what the data shows, evolution seems to be the best explanation.

 

[justlookinla]

Just because it appears that there is no plan, purpose or goal doesn't mean that that's the case.

That's a subjective viewpoint. I differ and say that it appears there was a plan, purpose and goal.

Of course, we could never prove that God intended to guide the process,

Neither can we prove, with the scientific method as a basis, that it's a completely random process.

but what's to say that it is unguided? We can only say that it happens randomly, but we can't say that God didn't design it that way, or that every random mutation wasn't already known and planned by Him.

As Christians, we can say that God had a plan to create humanity.

Science cannot infer God, but I don't have a problem with science, as long as it does what it does best - provide hypotheses for what we can observe, and from what the data shows, evolution seems to be the best explanation.

Depends on what form of evolution you're speaking of. The form which claims that humanity is driven by randomness with the result being nothing more than various forms of sacks of chemicals isn't supported by the scientific method.

 

[smaneck]

The random, mindless, meaningless, purposeless, goalless part.

You do realize that most people who believe in evolution are theists?

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

If you Believed in Him you wouldn't have to ask that question
You can see a couple of miracles in my new blog. a child on her 3rd birthday and Jotta

Why doesn't God heal amputees?
When it comes to miracles, you have to ask yourself this question (I'm blanking on who this was originally said by)

"Have the laws of nature been suspended in your favor and in a way that you approve or have you made a mistake?"

 

[malvina]

I'm sure if you ask The Lord that He will give you a suitable answer

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

I'm sure if you ask The Lord that He will give you a suitable answer

I asked a fair question. If God exists, why doesn't he heal amputees? Why not Alzheimer's? Why not Parkinsons disease? We have never seen a limb regenerate or the two diseases mention magically disappear from a patient.
Have the laws of nature been suspended in your favor and in a way that you approve or have you made a mistake?

 

[malvina]

If you was a Christian and sought the Lord over these questions He would give you suitable answer I don't try to do God's work for Him and nor should anyone else

 

[whois]

Why doesn't God heal amputees?
When it comes to miracles, you have to ask yourself this question (I'm blanking on who this was originally said by)

"Have the laws of nature been suspended in your favor and in a way that you approve or have you made a mistake?"

the fact still remains, the placebo effect is a reality.
it is the direct result of a persons expectations, their belief that it will work.

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

the fact still remains, the placebo effect is a reality.
it is the direct result of a persons expectations, their belief that it will work.

Has the placebo effect ever cured cancer or heart disease? No.
"The placebo effect can make some treatments seem like they help certain symptoms, when in fact they do nothing to directly cause a change in the disease."
Source: http://www.cancer.org/treatment/treatmentsandsideeffects/treatmenttypes/placebo-effect

 

[malvina]

Has the placebo effect ever cured cancer or heart disease? No.
"The placebo effect can make some treatments seem like they help certain symptoms, when in fact they do nothing to directly cause a change in the disease."
Source: http://www.cancer.org/treatment/treatmentsandsideeffects/treatmenttypes/placebo-effect