New World, Thanks for your note. It was a bit longer than I'm used to.
I believe Jesus gave the meaning and the context with His use of the word 'generation' in Mt. 23.
Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples,
2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
Do you really believe that on every single occasion, during Jesus' time on earth, that His use of the word " generation" always spoke to the "evil and adulterous" 1st century generation of that time?
(Not that our generation is the righteous and sexually pure one.)
The context of this passage is focused on the last days rulers of Old Covenant Israel.
Hebrews 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
The arrival of Messiah signaled the last days of Old Covenant Israel.
Matthew 23:29 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous,
Matthew 23:32 "Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' guilt.
Matthew 23:34 "Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city,
35 "that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
36 "Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
38 "See! Your house is left to you desolate;
Jesus pronounced judgment on the fist century generation of Old Covenant Israel. He told them their house, the temple, would be left desolate.
Yep, you're still doing good up until this point. We're still talkin' bout the 1st century "generation" and "last days" of Old Covenant Israel.
Matthew 24:1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"
Jesus revealed to the disciples that the buildings of the temple would be thrown down, left desolate, at the end of the age. The judgment on that generation would bring about the end of the Old Covenant age.
At this point a very serious misunderstanding is being made by the disciples AND the current Preterist community. This is an excellent example of how scriptural truth is constantly unfolding. Don't be too quick to assume that "the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age" was, as you say,"the judgment on that generation" and "the end of the Old Covenant age."
Remember that in a previous chapter Jesus mentioned how the angels would separate the just from the wicked at "
the end of the world".
Matthew 13:39
The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is
the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Matthew 13:40
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in
the end of this world.
Matthew 13:49
So shall it be at
the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
So the disciples had previously been exposed to the concept of the "end of the age" or "the end of the world". Consider also that they had just spent all day inside the Temple complex, which was by far the largest and most magnificent structure of it's day. The disciples had, earlier in the same day, heard Jesus mention in Luke 21 "not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down.” So as He sat on the Mount of Olives that evening the disciples asked again: "when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of
the end of the world?"
We now have the luxury of knowing that the destruction of the Temple was in 70AD, quite some time prior to
the end of the world. The disciples made the assumption that "not one stone shall be left upon another", of such a glorious structure, could only occur at "the end of the world". Jesus knew the real question that they were intending to ask which was what will be the sign of His coming at the end of the world when the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just.
(One will be taken and one left.)
Jesus answered and provided a long litany list of signs that would precede His coming and
the end of the world. Don't forget, that fist century generation of Old Covenant Israel from Matt.12, 16 and 23 may have demanded for a sign on numerous occasions but Jesus said no way Hosea.
Matthew 24:32 "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near.
33 "So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near--at the doors!
34 "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
Jesus then told the disciples their generation would witness "all these things."
It reads to me like Jesus is telling us that the generation who witnessed 1948 would not pass away until "all" is fulfilled. Which can be a little spooky because there's not allot of wiggle room between now and that day.
James 1:1 James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad: Greetings.
About 20-30 years later James wrote to those of that very same generation.
James 5:7 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain.
8 You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near.
9 Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned. Behold, the Judge is standing at the door!
James used some of the same words used by Jesus as He pronounced judgment on that generation. Jesus told the disciples their generation would see these things and know when He is near at the door. James wrote to that generation telling them the coming of the Lord was near, at the doors.
James 5:3 Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days.
The context of James was the last days of the Old Covenant age which would soon come to an end.
Here we go again. Ok, here's an added bonus to my Matthew wisdom. James has to be talking, for the most part, to us right now because he addresses his letter to "the twelve tribes scattered among the nations". Who he can't be addressing is "the twelve tribes" of "the generation of the Old Covenant age". That's because the old twelve tribes were history at the time of James writing. He's talkin' bout the New Twelve Tribes from Revelation 7 where the 144,000 will come from:
One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:
of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.
These are not genetic Israel of any generation, these are from the Commonwealth of Israel, defined as believers in our Glorious Lord Jesus. Look again at how James addresses his chapter 1 and compare it with how he addresses chapter 2:
James 1 (NIV)
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations:
Greetings.
James 2 (NIV)
Favoritism Forbidden
My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism.
Did you see it?
"The twelve tribes scattered among the nations" is the equivalent to
"believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ". James is not speaking specifically to the guys at the DofJ or the last days of the Old Covenant age or the original Moses style twelve tribes. He's talkin' bout brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus. This means that the 144,000 aren't going to all be genetic Jews, most will be Chinese or Indian. All will be brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus from all the nations.
Yes. The question is, do we believe Jesus, James and all the inspired New Testament writers who posited the end of the age as about to be, near, shortly and soon?
The real and most important question is do we understand Jesus, James and all the inspired new testament. Even more importantly are we assigning the relevant scriptures to their proper audience?
Did the end of the Old Covenant age come in that generation?
I'll agree with you on this.
You are correct. That generation had not passed away in the near future when James wrote to those scattered abroad. There were still some left from the group to whom Jesus spoke. And, James told them the time was near.
YEAH!, Blind Squirrel Syndrome Has Hit One Out of the Ball Park!
Let us rejoice in the day that the Lord Has Made but woe to you
Preterists, do not let your guard down. Super Dave is in the House.
The context of Mt. 12 is the same judgment we find in Mt. 23.
Matthew 12:24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, "This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons."
25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.
It was the scribes and the Pharisees seeking a sign:
Matthew 12:38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You."
39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
Jesus was speaking about the unbelievers of that terminal generation of Old Covenant Israel.
He gave His disciples several signs that would signal His return so that the Day would not overtake them as a thief.
I would not disagree with this. Matt.12,16 AND 23 is the same generation. Matthew 24 is a completely different end time generation that will be alive at the time the signs begin and also not pass away until ALL is fulfilled.
Look, you might be right, but I highly doubt it. I'd estimate a 99.9% chance that I'm right and the Preterist view is, unfortunately erroneous.
My big tip off was a year ago when a guy at worthy mentioned that Matt.24 and Luke 21 were different. One was in the morning in the Temple, the other's in the evening on the mount called Olivet. "As he sat on the Mount of Olives" is the true discourse.
Next was the discovery of the du Tillet Matthew, Hugh Schonfield translation. (The 1927 book is free online.)
Then line up Revelation 8 with "earthquakes in every place" and these are the "beginning of the plagues".
Can the Matthew 24:10 "fall away" be the same thing as 2 Thessalonians 2:3 "a falling away". Was Jesus talking about the half way point of our end time tribulation just prior to when the man of sin is revealed?
I'm afraid that from Matt.24:7 to Matt.24:14 Jesus runs through a fast pace synopses of the 1260 days of our end time tribulation which concludes with the 7th trumpet end of salvation.
And in the daytime He was teaching in the temple, .<--(He looked up to see the widow)
but at night He went out and stayed on the mountain called Olivet.<---(No Widows on mount Olivet)
And in the daytime He was teaching in the temple, .<--(He looked up to see the widow)
but at night He went out and stayed on the mountain called Olivet.<---(No Widows on mount Olivet)
Then early in the morning all the people came to Him in the temple to hear Him
And he was teaching daily in the temple. The chief priests and the scribes and the principal men of the people were seeking to destroy him, but they did not find anything they could do, for all the people were hanging on his words.
Caveat:
"If any of you lacks wisdom,
you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault,
and it will be given to you" <-------( THIS IS FOR REAL)
Peaceful rest of the Sabbath
