This generation shall not pass away...

[Anto9us]

no tie-breakers are seen on the horizon

yea, and thou shalt decide for thyself

that "this generation"

means

the generation that was alive at the time of Christ

or some other genertaion

i used ta fudge and squeeze it that

"this generation" meant

"the generation that sees these things"

and that that punted things off to the future

so the generation that saw 1948 etc would not pass away etc

but

preterists have answered things plausibly for several months now on CF

no fudging, no wiggling - THIS GENERATION

means generation alive at Jesus' time

4 decades I bought into futurism

enuff is enuff

questions were NOT ANSWERED by futurism

which are answered by preterism

(George Kennedy to Paul Newman in COOL HAND LUKE:

"stay down. yer beat.")

 

[shturt678]

no tie-breakers are seen on the horizon

yea, and thou shalt decide for thyself

that "this generation"

means

the generation that was alive at the time of Christ

or some other genertaion

i used ta fudge and squeeze it that

"this generation" meant

"the generation that sees these things"

and that that punted things off to the future

so the generation that saw 1948 etc would not pass away etc

but

preterists have answered things plausibly for several months now on CF

no fudging, no wiggling - THIS GENERATION

means generation alive at Jesus' time

4 decades I bought into futurism

enuff is enuff

questions were NOT ANSWERED by futurism

which are answered by preterism

(George Kennedy to Paul Newman in COOL HAND LUKE:

"stay down. yer beat.")

Well, I took a beaten on this one, ie, will take a breather, and gear up for another round, ie, Jack will come back.

Just ol' old Jackster

btw I'm an Amillennialist, ie, Nowist, ie, no "Futurism" for sure

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[shturt678]

Jesus comes after the signs from heaven and earth are seen - and the time of trouble ends. He told His generation that they would only see the sign of Jonas and no signs from heaven.

Jesus appears at the time of salvation. Salvation comes at the end of our faith. People are still joining the church yet today by faith in Jesus Christ.

Jesus left and sent the Comforter/Holy Spirit.
Jesus will come again and the tribes will mourn.
Today, Israel still doesn't recognize Him as Christ.

The antichrist is busy in the churches also, ie, IIThess.2:4; 10b-12.

Just ol' old head's up Jack

 

[coraline]

Jesus comes after the signs from heaven and earth are seen - and the time of trouble ends. He told His generation that they would only see the sign of Jonas and no signs from heaven.

Jesus appears at the time of salvation. Salvation comes at the end of our faith. People are still joining the church yet today by faith in Jesus Christ.

Jesus left and sent the Comforter/Holy Spirit.
Jesus will come again and the tribes will mourn.
Today, Israel still doesn't recognize Him as Christ.

Jesus told the Pharisees & Scribes directly in front of Him also that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was unpardonable.
Mt.12:
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”
39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

When you take the "Jonah" verse out of context (and you didn't even bother to cite the Text either,) it confounds any proper interpretation of the topic here, "this generation"

But in Mt.24, Jesus was speaking to the disciples about their present generation.

And Jesus speaks of judgment on Israel in Mt.24. And He tells the disciples the signs to look for.

History records that the disciples heeded Jesus' words & fled or did not enter Jerusalem or Judea when they saw the Roman army surrounding Jerusalem. (the abomination of desolation, Mt.24:15)

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[Interplanner]

Actually Vin, several signs were shown. See the thread here called the 7 signs mentioned by Josephus.

 

[coraline]

Since I am the antithesis of any scholar/Pastor/Minister of today, let me resurrect one of a dozen Lutheran's view, ie, these were valid scholars:

Matt.24:34 by Mr. Krutzmann (20th century): ".....this generation has a much broader meaning then the lifetime of those who heard him....double meanings of time." Matt.23:36, "this generation" refered to them then listening to Him. context and more context.

Have only a few more older Lutheran Commentaries and Dictionaries as unable to find Mr. Matthias Loy and Mr. Chemnitz" Commentary on this passage at this time, ie, the ones I nomallly use contextually.

Just ol old Context non-modern Lutheran Jack

I didn't know that Christ's apostles & disciples (who wrote scripture) were "Lutherans"

This Generation (Their generation, not ours) 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
A generation in Scripture is 40 years. Jesus clearly said their generation would live to see all these things. Some futurist suppose that "this generation" means the generation alive when these things start to take place. But that is a little redundant isn't it? That is like saying, "the generation alive when these things take place will be the generation alive when these things take place." This interpretation is sheer nonsense! Modern day false prophets like Grant Jeffrey have had to alter their interpretation from a 40-year generation to a generation meaning anyone who is still alive. They have had to change the meaning of generation since 1948 was more than 40 years ago. Futurist just make up their theology as they go along. Nobody holds them accountable.
Some futurist say that "generation" means the Jewish race. The word generation appears about 27 times in the Gospels. Not once in context does it ever mean the Jewish race. So why all of a sudden does it mean Jewish race in Matthew 24:34?

It is commonly declared that the word "generation,"in Matthew 24:34, means to imply that the "race"of the Jews would not pass, till all the mentioned events came to pass. There is no justification for such a position. C.I. Scofield, in his Bible's reference to this verse, recognized this, and actually SWITCHED the definition of the word from that of geneato to that of genos,which is an entirely different word!

 

[JLB777]

I didn't know that Christ's apostles & disciples (who wrote scripture) were "Lutherans"

This Generation (Their generation, not ours) 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
A generation in Scripture is 40 years. Jesus clearly said their generation would live to see all these things. Some futurist suppose that "this generation" means the generation alive when these things start to take place. But that is a little redundant isn't it? That is like saying, "the generation alive when these things take place will be the generation alive when these things take place." This interpretation is sheer nonsense! Modern day false prophets like Grant Jeffrey have had to alter their interpretation from a 40-year generation to a generation meaning anyone who is still alive. They have had to change the meaning of generation since 1948 was more than 40 years ago. Futurist just make up their theology as they go along. Nobody holds them accountable.
Some futurist say that "generation" means the Jewish race. The word generation appears about 27 times in the Gospels. Not once in context does it ever mean the Jewish race. So why all of a sudden does it mean Jewish race in Matthew 24:34?

It is commonly declared that the word "generation,"in Matthew 24:34, means to imply that the "race"of the Jews would not pass, till all the mentioned events came to pass. There is no justification for such a position. C.I. Scofield, in his Bible's reference to this verse, recognized this, and actually SWITCHED the definition of the word from that of geneato to that of genos,which is an entirely different word!

The generation that "see" these things, will "see" the Son of Man coming in the clouds with power and great glory.

32 "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near--at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. Matthew 24:32-34

What are the things that Jesus said the generation would see?

Signs in the heavens.

The Abomination of Desolation.

Those that see these "things" will be the generation that also sees Him Coming in power and great glory!

Here is something to remember.

Preterism is Heresy!


JLB

 

[Interplanner]

Preterism and futurism are %s. Preterism that allows for the final judgement to be future is not heresy. That's how I see Mt24 after v29, explained in v36. It goes global, universal at v29. the 1st century Judea events before that have happened. Look for the keywords: temple, inner room of the temple, Judea, Sabbath, etc.

 

[Interplanner]

On signs in the heavens, read Josephus list of 7. It's a thread here.

 

[Jipsah]

My solution is that "this generation" refers to the immediately preceding statement about the "fig tree" and "seeing all these things."

Then all you gots to do is define the "fig tree" and "all these things".

That would mean that the generation Christ is referring to is not the one he currently lives in, but the generation around the time of the end.

Sorry, but the reasoning there is only compelling if you already agree with the conclusion, which I do not. I believe our Lord was addressing those who asked Him the question which He was answering, not an audience thousands of years in the future. Futurism requires that you think otherwise, which is one reason among many why I reject futurism.

 

[Jipsah]

If you continue to rely upon the old and moldy interpretations of the RCC and reformer/reconstruction movements, you will never grasp the essence of the visions of the Bible prophets who all focus upon the Middle East

So we need to embrace new and novel interpretations of Scripture to really understand what's being said, zat it? I'll pass, thanks. I haven't met a new and novel interpretation yet that wasn't someone's attempt to "scripturalize" some notion that he'd arrived at beforehand.

you are a replacement theologist with regard to the Lord's nation of Israel

So the Church is just a sideshow in the Israelite drama, huh? I'll pass on that, as well.

 

[Jipsah]

So Jesus was saying that when you see ISRAEL re-blooming, whenever that would take place, that that generation would be the one that would be on the earth and living when the Last Days would occur.

Well no, that wasn't what He said at all, that's just what futurist doctrine says He "meant". Kinda handy to change the meanings of someone's words thousands of years after the fact, isn't it?

 

[Willie T]

"32 “From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he[g] is near, at the very gates. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place." Mt. 24:32-34 (NRSV)

This passage has caused a great deal of confusion amongst interpreters down through the ages. Some claim Christ must be referring to the events of AD 70 in the eschatological discourse - but then they run into the problem of trying to fit the events into the discourse, which doesn't work very well.

My solution is that "this generation" refers to the immediately preceding statement about the "fig tree" and "seeing all these things." That would mean that the generation Christ is referring to is not the one he currently lives in, but the generation around the time of the end. Thoughts?

Exactly.

 

[coraline]

The generation that "see" these things, will "see" the Son of Man coming in the clouds with power and great glory.

32 "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near--at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. Matthew 24:32-34

What are the things that Jesus said the generation would see?

Signs in the heavens.

The Abomination of Desolation.

Those that see these "things" will be the generation that also sees Him Coming in power and great glory!

Here is something to remember.

Preterism is Heresy!


JLB

You still need to work on your attitude & apologize to me from previous sessions too.

Jesus said the "meek" would inherit the earth. Not the proud.

 

[Interplanner]

What does "fit the events into the discourse" mean? They are the discourse.

 

[Bible2]

vinsight4u said in post 66:

They did not see the time of Daniel's prophesied abomination of desolation. That prophecy in Daniel's chapters has to unfold with many events coming ahead of the abomination of desolation act.

That's right.

Regarding the "abomination of desolation", Daniel 11:31 was typically fulfilled by the abomination of desolation in 1 Maccabees 1:54, which occurred in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the 2nd Jewish temple in Jerusalem in the time of Antiochus IV. But per Jesus' statement in Matthew 24:15, the church will see the abomination of desolation in Daniel 11:31 fulfilled (antitypically) in the future, when the church will see the abomination of desolation "stand" "in" the holy place (of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem). This future abomination of desolation could be a standing, android image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15) which his followers ("they") will put in the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31) to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15), after they have stopped the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have restarted in front of the temple (Daniel 11:31). This image will "pollute" the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31).

The Antichrist will then fulfill Daniel 11:36 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 by sitting himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaiming himself God. By the power of Satan (the dragon, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will then rule and be worshipped by all the nations of the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18), and will physically overcome Biblical Christians in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

Also, from the day on which (antitypically) "the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be 1,290 days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1,335 days" (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). Also, because the Antichrist will fulfill Daniel 11:31 antitypically (Matthew 24:15) and will fulfill Daniel 11:36 for the first (and only) time, then he will also fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 (the first part of it antitypically, and the rest for the first and only time) when he arises on the world stage, for that passage refers to the career of the same man. And since the Antichrist will fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 when he arises on the world stage, then just preceding his arising on the world stage, Daniel 11:13-19 could be fulfilled antitypically by an Iraqi Baathist General completely defeating and occupying Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

 

[B1inHim]

"32 “From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he[g] is near, at the very gates. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place." Mt. 24:32-34 (NRSV)

This passage has caused a great deal of confusion amongst interpreters down through the ages. Some claim Christ must be referring to the events of AD 70 in the eschatological discourse - but then they run into the problem of trying to fit the events into the discourse, which doesn't work very well.

My solution is that "this generation" refers to the immediately preceding statement about the "fig tree" and "seeing all these things." That would mean that the generation Christ is referring to is not the one he currently lives in, but the generation around the time of the end. Thoughts?

I agree, the end times. The one that we are in right now

 

[SayaOtonashi]

For example Damascus was destoryed in 70AD and was not in ruins for people still lived there