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This generation shall not pass away...

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Achilles6129, Sep 28, 2013.

  1. Achilles6129

    Achilles6129 Veteran

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    "32 “From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he[g] is near, at the very gates. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place." Mt. 24:32-34 (NRSV)

    This passage has caused a great deal of confusion amongst interpreters down through the ages. Some claim Christ must be referring to the events of AD 70 in the eschatological discourse - but then they run into the problem of trying to fit the events into the discourse, which doesn't work very well.

    My solution is that "this generation" refers to the immediately preceding statement about the "fig tree" and "seeing all these things." That would mean that the generation Christ is referring to is not the one he currently lives in, but the generation around the time of the end. Thoughts?
     
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  2. dfw69

    dfw69 Senior Veteran

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    Yes I agree it's the generation at the time of the end
     
  3. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    I disagree. The fig tree is given as an example of how the Jews could tell summer was near.

    Jesus then says just as you can tell summer is near by the fig tree when you see these signs you know His judgment of Jerusalem was right at the door.

    You can't find an example where "this generation" didn't mean the generation of that day.

    Just as when God told Israel every one of this generation that rebelled against Him and refused to enter the Promised Land would die...it meant them.

    Same thing there...THAT GENERATION saw Jerusalem destroyed...and Israel once again dispersed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2013
  4. Bible2

    Bible2 Guest

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    That's right.

    Matthew 24:34 refers to the fulfillment of "all these things", all the events of the tribulation and Jesus' 2nd coming and the gathering together (rapture) of the church "immediately after" the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6), which events Jesus had just finished describing in Matthew 24:2-31, and which he would later show in great detail in Revelation chapters 6 to 19. Matthew 24:34 didn't mean that the tribulation, 2nd coming, and rapture would be fulfilled during the temporal generation alive at the time of Jesus' first coming, for none of those things was fulfilled during that temporal generation.

    Instead, Matthew 24:34 could mean that the temporal generation which would see the 1948 AD reestablishment of Israel, which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-34, Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9, Matthew 21:19,43), won't pass, i.e. won't die off completely, until the future tribulation and 2nd coming of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 19 are fulfilled. A temporal generation may not pass until 70 or 80 years (Psalms 90:10), or 120 years (Genesis 6:3).

    This doesn't require that the 2nd coming will occur right before, like one year before, that generation will pass: i.e. 69, or 79, or 119 years after 1948: in 2017, 2027, or 2067. And if the tribulation which will immediately precede the 2nd coming and rapture (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) will last 7 years (Daniel 9:27), the tribulation's first year didn't have to be in 2011, and won't have to be in 2021, or 2061, but could be in a future year (e.g. 2020) earlier than 2021.

    Matthew 24:34 could also include the meaning that the figurative, all-times generation of the elect (Matthew 24:22, Luke 16:8b, Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4) won't pass away from the earth during the future tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, but that some of the elect will survive (Matthew 24:22) until Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53) "immediately after" the tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

    ~

    The rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32) can refer to the 1948 reestablishment of Israel, just as Jesus' cursing of the fig tree (Matthew 21:19) was symbolic of his curse on unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel (Matthew 21:43). The Israel that was reestablished in 1948 is the same Old Covenant Israel that Jesus cursed at his first coming, for it still rejects Jesus and still considers itself to be under the Old Covenant. This Israel merely "putting forth leaves" again (Matthew 24:32) in 1948 was nothing more than a restoration to what the fig tree in Matthew 21:19,43 had been before it was cursed forever by Jesus and then destroyed in 70 AD: a tree with leaves, but without any fruit. And the unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel that was reestablished in 1948 may never bear fruit, for it could be destroyed before Jesus' 2nd coming, during a future war, by a Baathist army, just as it had been destroyed in 70 AD by a Roman army.
     
  5. Bible2

    Bible2 Guest

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    Note that Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30, and Luke 21:32 can be the only example where "this generation" didn't mean the generation of that day. For your argument is like the argument of full preterism, which claims that the "elements" in 2 Peter 3:10,12 can't be physical because all the other verses in the Bible where the original Greek word "stoicheion" (G4747) is used, refer to non-physical elements. The truth is that the "elements" in 2 Peter 3:10,12 can be the only place in the Bible where "stoicheion" is used to refer to physical elements, just as, for example, Revelation 6:6 can be (and in fact is) the only place in the Bible where the Greek word "choinix" (G5518) is used at all. Similarly, Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30, and Luke 21:32 can be the only instance where "this generation" is used to refer to a future generation, which would see "all these things", including the 2nd coming.

    But note that just as the highly detailed tribulation events of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 find no historical fulfillment, so the tribulation events of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 find no historical fulfillment. For example, Luke 21:24 refers to the same future treading down of Jerusalem by the Gentiles as Revelation 11:2b, during the Antichrist's future, literal 42-month worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), the details of which time period are shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13). The myriad details of these chapters have never been fulfilled. Similarly, Jesus' 2nd coming and the church's gathering together (rapture) in Matthew 24:30-31 (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) have never been fulfilled, but must occur "immediately after" the future tribulation of Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6).

    Also, the end of Herod's temple building (also called the 2nd temple building) in 70 AD didn't fulfill Matthew 24:2. For the stones of the 2nd temple's Western Wall (also called the Wailing Wall) still stand today one on top of the other, just as they did when Jesus spoke that prophecy. Matthew 24:2 included the Wailing Wall, for Matthew 24:2 wasn't referring to only the single 2nd temple building in the center of the Temple Mount (the building that contained the holy place and the most holy place), but was referring to "all these things", all the plural "buildings"/structures/oikodome (G3619) of the entire 2nd temple complex (Matthew 24:1). Indeed, Matthew 24:2 could even have been spoken just to the north and west of the Wailing Wall, for it was spoken just after Jesus had departed from the temple complex (Matthew 24:1), and one of the main temple complex exits (called Wilson's Arch and bridge by archaeologists) was just to the north of the Wailing Wall and at the same level as the top of the Temple Mount (see the temple complex map insert in the December, 2008 issue of National Geographic magazine).

    Also, in Matthew 24:2, the "here" can include not just the entire 2nd temple complex, but every structure throughout Jerusalem. For the similar statement in Luke 19:44 applied to the whole city (Luke 19:41-44). Matthew 24:2 and Luke 19:44 could be fulfilled at the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before and at Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).
     
  6. Time Watcher

    Time Watcher Guest

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    Response to the OP


    He speaks of a generation of a returned remnant of Israel at the ending of this present age who will see all of the related events taken together .... the Lord does not include today's ecclesia in His forecast .... there is a reason

    This time has not yet come

    .... but the beginning could breakout before this day is over
     
  7. Fireinfolding

    Fireinfolding ....

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    These seem to mesh in Jesus Christ as prophesied in Isaiah (as shown in two places)

    Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; (Shown in Luke 4:18 &21) as fulfilled***

    So he stops in Luke, but Isaiah continues...

    Isaiah 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

    Where Jesus closes" the book" of Isaiah cutting that saying short in Luke 4:21 (When he said, "this saying was fulfilled in their ears") he continues the proclamation of Isaiah 61:2 picking it up here in Luke 21:22

    Luke 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things*** which are written may be fulfilled***.

    At least it shows both of the proclamations were fulfilled in Jesus.

    John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

    Acts 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;

    Acts 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

    Whereas it mentions the same here this way

    Acts 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

    Mat 22:7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

    Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

    And of the Jews...

    1Thes 2:15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

    Again...As shown in this parable

    Mat 22:7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

    This verse is a couple of verses prior to the one speaking of the days of vengeance (Jesus was to proclaim)

    Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

    Luke 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

    Luke 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

    Luke 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

    Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.


    Well, I have it written up a few ways, starting at what Messiah was to do according to Isaiah in what he was to proclaim (and of which) states "these be that" of all things (written) may be fulfilled there.

    It does seem to show (not only there) but according to other parables (accordingly) that by which the Jews could recognize, when it come to seeing Jerusalem surrounded. Warning those in the country not to enter therein.

    Just taking a closer look at this but the above seem more in accord with what is written above Luke 21:22 in respects to the two fold prophecy of Isaiah.
     
  8. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    I don't..."eschatological fantasy" is not my thing...nor do I waste my time with such.
     
  9. Time Watcher

    Time Watcher Guest

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    If you continue to rely upon the old and moldy interpretations of the RCC and reformer/reconstruction movements, you will never grasp the essence of the visions of the Bible prophets who all focus upon the Middle East .... they all do this

    ............ from the post flood era up to and including the coming tribulation and the Lord's millennial kingdom upon the earth

    You are carving out both of these events from your Bible, you are a replacement theologist with regard to the Lord's nation of Israel by misidentifying with the "church", and you are a "kingdom now" thinker

    All of this has blocked your understanding of just what the prophetic scriptures actually tell
     
  10. coraline

    coraline Active Member

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    I'm not looking to be entertained or entertain.

    One who posts a thread titled , "leaving, " and they don't leave.!

    Such is just an attention-seeking psyche!
     
  11. Bitachon

    Bitachon Newbie

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    Absolutely He is talking about the fig tree/end times generation!
     
  12. HisSparkPlug

    HisSparkPlug Offspring of a Genius

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    Interesting nick. Welcome.
    And I agree on the fig tree/end time generation bit
     
  13. shturt678

    shturt678 Senior Veteran

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    "end times generation X kind of men referred to = type of Jews ~ this kind of men continues to the very "1" Parousia.

    Just ol' old kind Jack
     
  14. coraline

    coraline Active Member

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    Right. It is not future.
    Titus literally placed the Roman eagle ensigns in the temple in AD70.
     
  15. Bible2

    Bible2 Guest

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    When Jesus says "ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies" (Luke 21:20), he's referring to the first part of Daniel 11:31: "And arms shall stand on his part". And when Jesus says "the desolation" in Luke 21:20, he's referring to the "abomination of desolation" part of Daniel 11:31, just as in Matthew 24:15, he's referring to the "abomination of desolation" part of Daniel 11:31.

    So Luke 21:20-23 isn't referring to 70 AD, nor to the pillaging of Jerusalem which will occur at the very end of the future tribulation, right before Jesus' 2nd coming to save Jerusalem (Zechariah 14), but is referring to what will happen mid-tribulation, when the Antichrist will antitypically fulfill Daniel 11:31 at the start of his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18), during which 3.5 years, Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles (Revelation 11:2b), which future treading down is what Luke 21:24 is referring to.

    Regarding the "abomination of desolation", Daniel 11:31 was typically fulfilled by the abomination of desolation in 1 Maccabees 1:54, which occurred in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the 2nd Jewish temple in Jerusalem in the time of Antiochus IV. But per Jesus' statement in Matthew 24:15, the church will see the abomination of desolation in Daniel 11:31 fulfilled (antitypically) in the future, when the church will see the abomination of desolation "stand" "in" the holy place (of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem). This future abomination of desolation could be a standing, android image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15) which his followers ("they") will put in the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31) to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15), after "they" have stopped the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have restarted in front of the temple (Daniel 11:31). This image will "pollute" the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31).

    The Antichrist will then fulfill Daniel 11:36 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 by sitting himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaiming himself God. By the power of Satan (the dragon, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) will then rule and be worshipped by all the nations of the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18), and will physically overcome Biblical Christians in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

    Also, from the day on which (antitypically) "the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be 1,290 days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1,335 days" (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). Also, because the Antichrist will fulfill Daniel 11:31 antitypically and will fulfill Daniel 11:36 for the first (and only) time, then he will also fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 (the first part of it antitypically, and the rest for the first and only time) when he arises on the world stage, for that passage refers to the career of the same man. And since the Antichrist will fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 when he arises on the world stage, then just preceding his arising on the world stage, Daniel 11:13-19 could be fulfilled antitypically by an Iraqi Baathist General completely defeating and occupying Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

    Regarding "Judaea" (Luke 21:21, Matthew 24:16), note that this doesn't have to mean first century Judaea. For there are many churches in Judaea (southern Israel) still today. They contain mostly Gentile believers, not just Jewish believers. The church began and has always been in Judaea: "Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea" (Acts 9:31); "the churches of Judaea" (Galatians 1:22); "the churches... in Judaea" (1 Thessalonians 2:14). Matthew 24:16 refers to those in the church, both Gentiles and Jews, who will be living in Judaea at the future point in time when the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31).

    The Antichrist's persecution of the church could begin in Jerusalem and Judaea right after the abomination of desolation is set up and the Antichrist himself sits in the temple and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). So to avoid this persecution (cf. Matthew 10:23a), those in the church living in Judaea should flee immediately after they see the abomination of desolation set up (Matthew 24:15-16), which event could occur at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and which event could mark the start of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18). Eventually, the Antichrist's persecution of the church will reach every nation of the earth (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13), so that the basic principle of Matthew 24:16 of fleeing (the Antichrist's persecution) would apply to believers around the world.

    Just as the woman in Revelation 12:6 represents many different people in the church around the world, so the protected wilderness place she flees to represents many different protected wilderness places around the world. When those in the church living in Judaea see the abomination of desolation set up, they should flee into places in the wilderness east of Judaea, the mountains (Matthew 24:16) of Jordan. And those in the church who will be living in places in the world other than Judaea should flee into other wilderness places, mountainous places (Ezekiel 7:16), in the regions of the world where they live.

    And they should have prepared beforehand hideouts in these wilderness/mountain places, hideouts already fully stocked with all of the emergency supplies of food, water, warm clothing, etc., that they and their families and fellow Christians will need to survive (1 Timothy 5:8, Matthew 24:45-46, cf. Genesis 41:48,36, Genesis 45:7) until Jesus returns, possibly on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). For they shouldn't carry any supplies with them when they flee (Matthew 24:17-18). They should flee as unhindered and quickly as possible, knowing that when the abomination of desolation is set up, that could signal the beginning of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), when he will be given power to make war against all those in the church that he can get his hands on, and to physically overcome them and kill them (by beheading) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

    The treading down of Jerusalem during the "times" (Greek: kairos, G2540) of the Gentiles in Luke 21:24 can refer to what will occur during certain years in our future, the same "times" (kairos, G2540), or years, referred to in Revelation 12:14b, during which the Gentiles will tread down Jerusalem as part of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 11:2b, Revelation 13:5-18), during the 2nd half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

    Similarly, when Paul says "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" (Romans 11:25), he means until a full number of genetic Gentile individuals have become saved, which won't happen until near the end of the tribulation, right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Romans 11:26).

    Immediately after the tribulation, at Jesus' 2nd coming (Matthew 24:29-30), all the unsaved elect genetic Jews will become saved (Romans 11:26-28) by God's grace when they see the returned Jesus in person and believe in him (Zechariah 12:10-14). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, just as when genetic Jews believe in Jesus now they become part of the church, for there are now no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

    And the genetic Jews who will become believers at the 2nd coming will all become part of the church by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit, who is "the spirit of grace and of supplications" in Zechariah 12:10 (Hebrews 10:29c, Romans 8:26), just as genetic Jewish believers today become part of the church by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit. For it's by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit that both genetic Jewish believers and genetic Gentile believers become part of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13).
     
  16. Bible2

    Bible2 Guest

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    Even though the church is Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10), the church doesn't "replace" Israel, because Gentiles in the church are grafted in to become only parts of an already-existing Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, John 10:16), which also includes the Jews in the church (Romans 11:1).

    Presently, the kingdom of God is in heaven (2 Timothy 4:18, Hebrews 12:22-24), and is on the earth spiritually within Christians (Romans 14:17, Luke 17:21). In the future, the kingdom will come fully upon the earth as it is in heaven (Matthew 6:10). It will be physically (Luke 22:30, Matthew 19:28) on the earth (Revelation 5:10), first during the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21) and then on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-8).

    Jesus' kingdom is Israel (John 1:49, John 12:13-15, John 19:19, Luke 22:30). That's why at his 2nd coming, he will sit on the earthly throne of David (Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7) and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21). Jesus is, in his humanity, the son of David (Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:15-16, Romans 1:3), of the house of David (Luke 1:69). So at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isaiah 16:5, Amos 9:11), to its royal glory (2 Samuel 5:12), which it had lost (2 Kings 17:21a). And Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Samuel 7:16-29. And he will bring salvation to all the unbelieving elect Jews of the house of David. For they (along with all other unbelieving elect Jews) will come into faith in him when they see him at his 2nd coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Zechariah 13:1,6, Romans 11:26-31). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, for there are now no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

    After Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Zechariah 14:3-5) will occur the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:8-21), during which, Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the bodily resurrected church will reign on the earth with the returned Jesus during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). For the church is Israel (Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10).
     
  17. Another Lazarus

    Another Lazarus Old Newbie

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    Jesus was talking about the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem where people who lived in the same time with Him would still be alive to witness the destruction of that Temple of God. and then Jesus speak about the other things like the End times event.
     
  18. Fenwick

    Fenwick I literally don't care

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    Indeed. The Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24 and Luke 21 describes events that followed within a few decades of his ascension. Ergo, the generation of the Apostles had in fact not passed away before seeing the events Christ foretold come to pass.

    Simple enough.

    As an aside, I would like to encourage everyone to address the content of each others posts rather than the poster themselves. Ad hominem attacks do not lend any weight to your argument so it's best to just discuss the subject and not make it personal, agreed?
     
  19. Time Watcher

    Time Watcher Guest

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    "When Jesus says "ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies" (Luke 21:20), he's referring to the first part of Daniel 11:31: "And arms shall stand on his part". And when Jesus says "the desolation" in Luke 21:20, he's referring to the "abomination of desolation" part of Daniel 11:31, just as in Matthew 24:15, he's referring to the "abomination of desolation" part of Daniel 11:31"


    Nay B2

    You refer to Antiochus IV

    This last king of the north of the 5th fallen Middle East kingdom is given here [Daniel 11:21-35] ...... the next king of the north in the scope of the vision is the coming little horn [Daniel 11:36-45; 12:7]

    Jesus is telling His early Israelite brethren about the time of the end in both Matthew 24 and Luke 21 just as the prophets do

    This future time did not come in the first century and all of the events described are still pending

    He speaks to them [to Israel] as if this time of Jacob's trouble could come in their day .... He just does not give them a dating [this beginning has not been revealed in scripture]

    There is a coming generation of Israel who will be present on the earth and in the land when "all of these things" [taken together] will come to pass

    Obviously all did not transpire in the first century [in fact none of them did] .... the Lord is projecting the "time of the end" of this present age .... just as His prophets do

    Not one vision of any Bible prophet records 70 AD ..... all of the visions break at the ending of the 69th week decreed for Israel [Daniel 9:26] [the cutting off of the Messiah Prince .... then the people of the "other prince" will come to desecrate] .... this was not the Romans, but will be the Middle Eastern Muslims led by the little horn .... he is called the "Assyrian"] [Micah 5]

    It is the Lord who will "be the peace" and who will confirm the covenant with the "many" of Israel [Daniel 9:24-27][Jeremiah 31:31-37] .... and the other prince is the little horn will come into the land and tread [Daniel 11:41; Micah 5:5-6] .... verse 27 is a repeating of verse 26 concerning both princes

    The next portion of unfulfilled prophecy are all focused upon the events of the "time of the end" which has not yet begun .... the time "appointed" [Daniel 11:35 .....................11:36 ]

    Jesus takes up exactly where His prophets see the future "time of the end" and proceeds to speak of His own nation of Israel during the period

    And His projection is not about the "church" .... this mixing of Israel and the "church" by replacement theologists has caused the same mixing and confusion related to 70 AD, and the future time of the end of this present age
     
  20. Anto9us

    Anto9us Ecumenical loose canon

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    Menahem - Manahem - Son of Perdition - will research..

    Josephus' account of the Temple destruction seems very weird to me -- he refers to "Caesar" as actually BEING THERE - which I guess is just a literary device - Titus was there in person, and Vespasian, his father - was emperor at the time, as I understand it. Vespasian was not physically present

    Odd that we rely on a Jewish turncoat who sided with Vespasian as our "only eye-witness" of this destruction
     
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