Is salvation thru Torah Obedience, Faith and Grace?

[visionary]

There are many evangelical Christian fellowships within which individuals are Torah observant and they teach from a Messianic perspective. Most belong to denominations where it is not possible to re-name the Church from being Christian to Messianic - but it becomes very obvious when you enter. I know of at least two very large Churches, without even stopping to think hard, near where I used to live that are almost totally Messianic but they have to retain their denominational identity. I have served in such a Church as well. I have found very, very, few Christians (fellow ministers or lay people) who would know what 'Torah nailed to the Cross' was meant to be about. Although a majority of Christians would say that the Law is redundant because of grace (mis-reading Paul's words), but that is not all by any means in the real world. I think perhaps you are projecting Americanisms onto the rest of the world; the rest of the world seems to want to differ.

Is this what you are talking about?

 

[Avodat]

Is this what you are talking about?

Who is this aimed at?

 

[visionary]

Who is this aimed at?

It is your quote that you keep referring too..I was just trying to find it.

 

[Avodat]

It is your quote that you keep referring too..I was just trying to find it.

No. I posted this, which Lulav thinks is nothing but scare tactics so I said it was G_d's word and if it scared someone, blame him, not me. Then a few more posts and I suggested that she go read what G_d had actually written - they were not my words, but his. And so on...

Originally Posted by Avodat

Hebrews speaks of those who having tasted all the goodness of Yeshua, then give it up, cannot return. But Matthew also speaks of those who pretend to be good believers and do all sorts of things but on the great day of trial Yeshua will send them away because he doesn't know them.

​

 

[Seeking Him]

I agree, as the polarization between grace vs works is often unecessary...and in terms of salvation, grace impacting a person will change how they live..like the woman who anointed the Lord with perfume/her tears in the latter part of Luke 7 when Yeshua said "He who has been forgiven much loves much." To what degree one does works is up to the Lord, as evidenced by the thief at the cross who did little works compared to others and yet what he did was enough for the Lord..and the same with others like Cain/Abel, who both brought sacrifices prescribed later by the Mosaic law and yet Cain's was rejected because his right actions/works were devoid from proper motives.

Samson in his lifestyle is another interesting case study, in light of how often the Lord came through for that individual/saved him despite how buck-wild he was in his living---with the power of the Lord coming upon him and Him often using it for wrong reasons/purposes...yet the Lord worked with him where he was at. With alot of things, I think salvation is much more complex than the options given in the poll..and it's why I chose the last option. But to be clear, I'm not against the mindset that one cannot do evil deeds consistently/think they're in the clear. Ezekiel notes that plainly:

Ezekiel 33:12
“Therefore, son of man, say to your people, ‘If someone who is righteous disobeys, that person’s former righteousness will count for nothing. And if someone who is wicked repents, that person’s former wickedness will not bring condemnation. The righteous person who sins will not be allowed to live even though they were formerly righteous.’
Ezekiel 33:11-13 /Ezekiel 33
​

Grace is Jesus! You say alot of good graceful things. SH.

 

[visionary]

No. I posted this, which Lulav thinks is nothing but scare tactics so I said it was G_d's word and if it scared someone, blame him, not me. Then a few more posts and I suggested that she go read what G_d had actually written - they were not my words, but his. And so on...

Originally Posted by Avodat

Hebrews speaks of those who having tasted all the goodness of Yeshua, then give it up, cannot return. But Matthew also speaks of those who pretend to be good believers and do all sorts of things but on the great day of trial Yeshua will send them away because he doesn't know them.

​

There is nothing scary about that statement in Hebrews... it is a fact...It is also a fact that our dependence is not on our own understanding.. our faith is in Him.. and we are humble enough to follow God down which ever narrow path He wishes us to walk.. we have come this far.. and in my case through a lot of religious organizations, congregations, theologies, doctrines, and creeds to arrive where I am by the grace of God.

 

[Lulav]

You don't find it scary to be told you could lose your salvation?

 

[Henaynei]

You don't find it scary to be told you could lose your salvation?

No one said "lose" - what was said was give away, reject, turn back on, run away from...
But, yes, it is and should be scary and we should be conscious of our position every moment of the day. At least in America we have become so complacenta and comfortable with OSAS that we have lose our fear and awe of the Creator and Judge. To the point that "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" confuses most people, even pulpits. It is just not PC to warn someone they are about to throw their salvation away.
Most of us today, if faced with a heavenly visitor, would not fall on our faces and cry in total awe but more likely to walk right up and nspect them.
How many bibles in your church, synagogue or shul are placed on the floor each worship service?
One lady told me it was because things were so crowded there was no other place for it ... Until I suggested that instead of her purse on her bible it could/should be the other way around.
Forget "No Fear" - there are some things that are worthy of fear, supreme among them is HaShem.

 

[Lulav]

Hebrews speaks of those who having tasted all the goodness of Yeshua, then give it up, cannot return.

that sounded like losing it to me, I think he was referring to Hebrews 6

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened , and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come , 6 If they shall fall away , to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh , and put him to an open shame .

 

[Yahudim]

His loving kindness was shown when he gave us the Torah, I thought I explained that in my post above.

That's what I meant Sis. He had to have chesed for us so that we would have anything to have faith in. He needed to, through His chesed offer us instruction on the way out of the mess that we got ourselves into. That's how I see it anyway. Every time I read what you say, I get the feeling like we are saying the same thing from different perspectives. Maybe I'm hallucinating?

Is it the order? Do you think chesed should be first, then faith and obedience? I don't get it.

 

[visionary]

You don't find it scary to be told you could lose your salvation?

I can remember the first time I read that, and did some serious soul searching to see if I had in any form crossed this line. It took quite a few years before the Lord revealed to me this peace that has passed all understanding on the matter. It is not that I will go near this line that it talks about.. but that I am comfortable far enough away where I am no longer afraid. .. It is like a cliff, which is at the edge of the precipice of the abysis. Once you know where it is, and keep your spiritual self as far away as you can go from it, your fear of the edge goes away.. not that the edge has gone away, but that there is safety in being really close to Him...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

No one said "lose" - what was said was give away, reject, turn back on, run away from...

But, yes, it is and should be scary and we should be conscious of our position every moment of the day. At least in America we have become so complacenta and comfortable with OSAS that we have lose our fear and awe of the Creator and Judge. To the point that "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" confuses most people, even pulpits. It is just not PC to warn someone they are about to throw their salvation away.

.

If you're walking according to how the Lord desires, OSAS is benefifical in that it is a reminder of how the Lord is able to keep us steady/never abandons those seeking Him:

Jude 1:23
17 But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

20 But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
22 Be merciful to those who doubt; 23 save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.[

Doxology

24 To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
​

When it comes to salvation, there are many who often doubt if they're even in the right spot for a myriad of reasons and think something's wrong because of difficulty believing fully as they'd like---but just because the Lord's providence is there doesn't mean that one won't have times where they may question where they stand even when they've been seeking to do their part. For there are times for the believer where there are seasons of doubt arising /struggle and times where we're just like John the Baptist in wondering "What if?" like Matthew 11 notes when he was in prison.


When doubts arise, take them to the LORD!

As long as we turn to the Lord during our struggles, we're in the clear (Job 42:2-6, Matthew 11:20-24, Matthew 12:39-46, John 6:26-71 , John 10:25-42, John 12:37-43, Matthew 3:13-17, John 5:19-47 John 10:37-38, Matthew 14:1-12, Mark 6: Mark 6:14-29, Luke 3:21-22, -John 3: 26-30, John 3:26-30).


To bring one’s doubts/questions about one’s situation to the Lord or to even have questions about the Lord is not something inherently wrong and that God cannot/will not deal with or work through. Honestly, though, do we not all have doubts at various times on many things (i.e. salvation, forgiveness of sins, God’s working in us, that His Will is best, etc .)?

Do we not all have times when it’s not enough for us to simply have “blind faith” and is quite necessary to cry out to the Lord/turn to God with our questions and to ask for/seek to examine the physical evidence of God’s Word/actions in our lives so we can better follow Him?

Consider the entire situation of Job’s predicament and wondering why he was suffering so severely as he did. Although God did rebuke Job for challenging His Sovereignty and at one point daring to bring the Lord down to his standard, did He rebuke Job simply for asking honest questions (note: though he brought his questions to the Lord, which the Lord does not have a problem with, Job was also willing to accept the answer God gave even if/when it wasn’t what he wanted to hear, as seen in his repentance by the end of the story…Even when God restored him, both spiritually and physically, he was never promised to come out of his situation and yet still maintained his faith in the Lord because he knew that God loves us is just in restoring us in whatever we suffer for or lose unjustly but will not always give as we ask in this life…even when we walk rightly before Him…Job 42:2-6) and trying to wrestle through issues?

Rather than rebuking Job for asking hard questions, did He not use those questions as ways of glorifying Him by pointing to the greater matter of the need to submit to/trust Him regardless of where one is at of the need to rememeber the love/all-sufficency of who He is?

Did Jesus rebuke John for his the natural doubts he had? Perhaps the Lord would’v Lord to prove Himself for the sake of show while having no intention to doe rebuked him had John seen evidence of who He was repeatedly and simply refused to believe out of stubborness or refusal to believe/repent despite the aboundance of reasons or asking for the something with what’s already been demostrated or discontent that the Lord did not fit into preconceived notions of who he thought he should be, just as many in Jesus’s day did with Him (Matthew 11:20-24, Matthew 12:39-46, John 6: 26-71, John 10: 25-42, John 12:37-43, and various others to name).

But, like the passage describes, John only baptized Jesus…though Jesus was always perfect and openly confirmed to be the Messiah by the Holy Spirit and God the Father (Matthew 3:13-17), that by no means was a valid enough reason for all (including John the Baptist, I believe) to believe without question that Jesus was the real deal since He was to do far more than simply have a display from heaven to qualify as the Messiah.

Even Jesus made clear that whatever else took place by/for Him meant nothing by His own testimony if it didn’t line up with the character or standard of God’s first (John 5:19-47, and John 10:37-38). John never fully saw Jesus do the things that the Messiahh was supposed to do (i.e. raising the dead, healing/miracles, being tempted in all areas man is tempted and overcoming them all, and above all else, preaching the good news that the dominion of sin/the devil would soon be broken and salvation made possible for all). He never really saw Jesus do those things because, right after the baptism of Christ, he was placed in prision ((Matthew 14:1-12, Mark 6: 14-29, Luke 3:21-22).
__________________


Seeing that John was in prision, what else could he do but rely on the second-hand reports of his disciples to keep up with Jesus? Additionally, seeing that their reports were not seen with his own eyes and often unexpected or incomplete, would John not have been confused as to what to make of the Lord? Would it not have been wisdom on John’s part to investigate who Jesus was and to hear from “the horses mouth”?

Additionally, if You knew that your purpose was to “prepare the way of the Lord” and to get people people ready to meet the Savior, would you not be a little perturbed to be in a prision seemilgly unable to do your job while your employer/Lord was out and about? Even in knowing that his importance needed to and would become less than that of Jesus (-John 3: 26-30-), before his time in jail, he could still turn people to Jesus and possibly work alongside Him as Jesus began His ministry.

Yet, seeing that no one could forsee him on death row, would it not have been easy for John to wonder whetehr or not Jesus was the Messiah when he could have (probably though so ) been preaching to the crowds and still pointing people to Christ? Was it not smart on his part to question the Lord so as to see whether or not what he sought to do for him was done in vain?

Like the passage makes clear, Jesus understood his doubts and was not offended by them at all. Rather, responded to his questions by showing that he Had accomplished all that a true Messiah would do. Additionally, Jesus didn’t simply say “Trust Your heart John”. He described proofs consisting of “observable deeds, not theories—physical proofs and ones in line with what the prophets before John had stated the Messiah would do to help John to believe.

John needed is that this is the direct fulfillment of the central Messianic prophecy (Isaiah 61:1-2) which Jesus Himself read when He announced to the people in Nazareth, "Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing." (Luke 4:17-21). ....and the Lord went about reporting to John "the blind receive sight and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the Gospel preached to them?" (Matthew 11:4-6, NASB)


Jesus referred John to what is WRITTEN....and John could see from the reports of the disciples that Jesus was doing exactly what the prophet Isaiah had said the Messiah would do. John, being a prophet himself, would fully comprehend the significance of that.


IMHO, the Word adovactes that doubts are not something evil in and of themselves and things we should run from or that God even looks upon with disdain all of the time, provided that when we admit them to ourselves and the Lord and face them honestly we decide to resolve them by turning ourselves over to Him and looking to Him for guidance/answers and accepting the answers He gives so that we’ll not fall away from the Lord, using them to something to inquire of the Lord.

John the Baptist wasn’t faulted for doubting since He took his doubts directly to Jesus…and Jesus was fine with it. Furthermore, He even commended John for how He handled his doubts, for he could’ve easily become offended by Jesus and rejected Him for not fitting into the plans/pre-conceieved notions he may’ve had or being mad at God for not meeting the terms he wanted as the Pharisees and many others in Jesus’s day did—the people who were offended in Jesus’sday and who Jesus was referring to apparently as seen when the rest of the text in read

No matter, what He said or did, they always took the oposite view they were cynical and skeptical because of how Jesus challenged their comfortable, secure, and self-centered lives”…they didn’t examine their own ideas in light of God’s truth and evn in their doubts they made the mistake of rejecting the words of Christ and, wanting to live their own ways, justified how they saw things while refusing to listen to other ideas and seeking to submit themselves to the Lord….forcing their plans on God instead of seeking to know the plans He had for them and whether they were in line with them! John the Baptist, however, used his doubts as a reason to investigate and follow the Lord more. Jesus even commended John the Baptist as one who fufilled/sought the plan of God more than anyone before him (Matthew 11:1-18)

 

[Gxg (G²)]

But, yes, it is and should be scary and we should be conscious of our position every moment of the day. At least in America we have become so complacenta and comfortable with OSAS that we have lose our fear and awe of the Creator and Judge. To the point that "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" confuses most people, even pulpits. It is just not PC to warn someone they are about to throw their salvation away.

Examining ourselves is something we must always be about:

G
2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?
2 Corinthians 13:4-6 2 Corinthians 13
​

1 Corinthians 11:23-29
For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. 32

Romans 12:3
[ Humble Service in the Body of Christ ] For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you.
Romans 12:2-4

G
Hebrews 3:15
As has just been said: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion.”
Hebrews 3:14-16 Hebrews 3

​

And yet, as the scriptures note, those truly in Him should not be continually walking in fear of judgement......

As the apostle John noted:

1 John 2:5
But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
1 John 2:4-6

1 John 3:13
This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters. 17 If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? 18 Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.
19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

1 John 4:17
[ The Consummation of Love ] Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.

1 John 4:16-18 1 John 4

​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Most of us today, if faced with a heavenly visitor, would not fall on our faces and cry in total awe but more likely to walk right up and nspect them. .

Most people today, on the last part of what you meant by heavenly visitor, are conditioned to not take the supernatural really seriously...especially in light of the increase of atheism/humanism and methodological naturalism where anything can be explained rationally and there's nothing more powerful than man.....and althoug worship of heavenly beings is bad, it's just as bad to be a scoffer of them, as the authors of scripture note when they saymen are foolish for even trying to slander them/speak flippantly on them....

2 Peter 2:11
Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings; yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
​

Jude 1:7-10
And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.8In the very same way, these dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings. 9But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" 10Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them.
​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Grace is Jesus!.

Grace is not a concept, but rather a person--in the form of Christ

John 1:18
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. 5 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’&#8221 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.


Romans 5:15
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
Romans 5:14-16

2 Corinthians 8:9
For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich.
2 Corinthians 8:8-10

2 Timothy 1:9
He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.
2 Timothy 1:8-10


Titus 2
For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good
​

As Peter said, "We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved" (Acts 15:11). The gospel was a message about God’s grace (Acts 14:3; 20:24, 32) and the scriptures declare how we are justified by grace "through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus" (Romans 3:24). It is God’s grace that is linked with the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross..for the Lord died for us, for our sins, and we are saved because of what he did on the cross. Thank the Lord that we have redemption through his blood (Ephesians 1:7).

But God’s grace goes further than forgiveness. For Luke tells us that God’s grace was on the disciples as they preached the gospel (Acts 4:33) and God showed them favor, giving them help they did not deserve. We are to be merciful, even as God is full of mercy (Luke 6:36). We are to forgive others, just as we have been forgiven. We are to serve others, just as we have been served. We are to be gracious toward others, giving them favor and kindness.
Our words are to be full of grace (Colossians 4:6).



Although I disagree with him on certain things, Joseph Prince often said it best when it comes to the Power of the Blood of Christ for making his people righteous:

Joseph Prince - The Holy Spirit Convicts Us Of Righteousness ...​

Joseph Prince - Jesus' Blood Cries Forgiveness ...​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Grace is Jesus!

Amen...

As shared before in #38 & #42 , the power of the Blood (an expression of Grace) is amazing since it is an extension of who Christ is.

Matthew 26:28
For this is my blood, which ratifies the New Covenant, my blood shed on behalf of many, so that they may have their sins forgiven.
​

Messiah Yeshua's own words and explanation of his accomplishments.

Luke 18:31 ESV
[Jesus Foretells His Death a Third Time] And taking the twelve, he said to them, "See, we are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written about the Son of Man by the prophets will be accomplished.
​

Acts 13:39-41
39 Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses. 40 Take care that what the prophets have said does not happen to you:

41 “‘Look, you scoffers,
wonder and perish,
for I am going to do something in your days
that you would never believe,
even if someone told you.’[e]”
​

There must be an avoidance of scoffing at the fact that believers are set free from every sin, a justification that was not attainable under the law of Moses. For many, it's something 'new' that even if told, scoffers would not 'believe'. But what the Lord came to do with sin He has truly made possible in His son.

John 1
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming towards him and exclaimed, "Look, that is the Lamb of God who is to take away the sin of the world!

​

Romans 8:3 CJB For what the Torah could not do by itself, because it lacked the power to make the old nature cooperate, God did by sending his own Son as a human being with a nature like our own sinful one [but without sin]. God did this in order to deal with sin, and in so doing he executed the punishment against sin in human nature,

​

Hebrews 9:28 ESV so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.



1 John 2
1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
​

 

[Lulav]

That's what I meant Sis. He had to have chesed for us so that we would have anything to have faith in. He needed to, through His chesed offer us instruction on the way out of the mess that we got ourselves into. That's how I see it anyway. Every time I read what you say, I get the feeling like we are saying the same thing from different perspectives. Maybe I'm hallucinating?

Is it the order? Do you think chesed should be first, then faith and obedience? I don't get it.

I think we are agreeing, just saying it different ways.
I guess choice one would be for me too.

 

[visionary]

The order [Torah] is necessary to even recognize that which is the Lord's and His Ways to even "know" it is Him and to believe in Him and the Grace His offers. This is not like horseshoes or hand grenades, where even close can count. This is where what He says, is your reality.

 

[Seeking Him]

Amen...

As shared before in #38 & #42 , the power of the Blood (an expression of Grace) is amazing since it is an extension of who Christ is.

Matthew 26:28
For this is my blood, which ratifies the New Covenant, my blood shed on behalf of many, so that they may have their sins forgiven.
​

Messiah Yeshua's own words and explanation of his accomplishments.

Luke 18:31 ESV
[Jesus Foretells His Death a Third Time] And taking the twelve, he said to them, "See, we are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written about the Son of Man by the prophets will be accomplished.
​

Acts 13:39-41
39 Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses. 40 Take care that what the prophets have said does not happen to you:

41 “‘Look, you scoffers,
wonder and perish,
for I am going to do something in your days
that you would never believe,
even if someone told you.’[e]”
​

There must be an avoidance of scoffing at the fact that believers are set free from every sin, a justification that was not attainable under the law of Moses. For many, it's something 'new' that even if told, scoffers would not 'believe'. But what the Lord came to do with sin He has truly made possible in His son.

John 1
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming towards him and exclaimed, "Look, that is the Lamb of God who is to take away the sin of the world!

​

Romans 8:3 CJB For what the Torah could not do by itself, because it lacked the power to make the old nature cooperate, God did by sending his own Son as a human being with a nature like our own sinful one [but without sin]. God did this in order to deal with sin, and in so doing he executed the punishment against sin in human nature,

​

Hebrews 9:28 ESV so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.



1 John 2
1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
​

Amen! And the more I see it was the grace of God, the more I see it was a gift, and more joy flows, because a gift is free. I always think it's amazing how Peter said the prophets of old, searched intently for this grace in 1 Peter 1, they knew something awesome was coming. Thanks for the reply. SH.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Amen! And the more I see it was the grace of God, the more I see it was a gift, and more joy flows, because a gift is free. I always think it's amazing how Peter said the prophets of old, searched intently for this grace in 1 Peter 1, they knew something awesome was coming. Thanks for the reply. SH.

What Peter noted is really powerful to consider in regards to salvation:

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1 Peter 1:16
Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.
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http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Peter+1&version=NIV#en-NIV-30391

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Peter+1&version=NIV#en-NIV-30391
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