Climate Change Hoax Ignored by Obama, Gore and the Elite Media

[thaumaturgy]

You know, your right. I am going to take this opportunity to lead. From now on I am going to burn all the fossil fuel I can. In fact, I am going to turn up the thermostat and let my car engine run in the driveway for the next hour. Hows that for leadership?

That's exactly what most of the world expects from us. Sorry to burst the bubble.

Remember, we are 5% of the earth's population but we use 25% of the oil (SOURCE)

So why should anyone expect us to act like adults now?

 

[lordbt]

That's exactly what most of the world expects from us. Sorry to burst the bubble.

Well, who am I to let the rest of the world down. I dont do things based upon what the rest of the world thinks.

Remember, we are 5% of the earth's population but we use 25% of the oil (SOURCE)

So what?

So why should anyone expect us to act like adults now?

You are crazy if you think the third world will follow our example if we decide to cut emissions. They are going to go through an industrial revolution of their own just like we did, and nothing we do is going to stop them. And any attempt on our part to do so will be rightly viewed as nothing more than hypocrisy.

 

[thaumaturgy]

Well, who am I to let the rest of the world down. I dont do things based upon what the rest of the world thinks.

And thankfully we Americans have an entire other planet to escape to! Yay us!

So what?

I think the fact you say that just makes me think we Americans deserve the general impression people have of us.

So what?

So you think oil will last forever? Ha! You think that China who is oil poor and simultaneously holds a huge amount of our debt will just sit back and say "Oh, you guys in the U.S....you just take what's left of the oil...we won't mind."

Ha ha! Talk about clear-sighted political savvy.

Every time I see some suburban yahoo here in SoCal drive their hummer to the Costco I see people who only think they have unlimited power and independence.

So what. Indeed.

You are crazy if you think the third world will follow our example if we decide to cut emissions. They are going to go through an industrial revolution of their own just like we did,

And what, exactly, are you going to do to stop them? You wanna use up all the oil before they can get to it? Good luck! We're doing our part!

Guess what the world looks like after that? Oh yeah...we're all third world then! Only it's a lot more painful because we brought the calamity on faster and without preparing for life under different circumstances!

and nothing we do is going to stop them. And any attempt on our part to do so will be rightly viewed as nothing more than hypocrisy.

"So What"? Do you only do the "right" thing when everyone else does it?

Sorry my moral fiber is a bit more robust than that. For me right is right, no matter how many others are doing it or not. (I tend to not be constrained by just following the herd.)

But then, again, I'm obviously willing to put my money where my mouth is and live by my principals even when it costs me. I'm warped like that.

 

[lordbt]

So you think oil will last forever? Ha! You think that China who is oil poor and simultaneously holds a huge amount of our debt will just sit back and say "Oh, you guys in the U.S....you just take what's left of the oil...we won't mind."

Ha ha! Talk about clear-sighted political savvy.

We dont take oil, we buy it. So do the Chinese. Its not first come first serve it is available to everyone equally. If China needs more oil, they buy it. As oil becomes more scarce its price will rise. Again, so what?

Every time I see some suburban yahoo here in SoCal drive their hummer to the Costco I see people who only think they have unlimited power and independence.

I dont know what that means.

And what, exactly, are you going to do to stop them? You wanna use up all the oil before they can get to it? Good luck! We're doing our part!

I dont plan to do anything to stop them. There is plenty of oil, coal and natural gas for everyone. The US is not going to use it all up.

Guess what the world looks like after that? Oh yeah...we're all third world then! Only it's a lot more painful because we brought the calamity on faster and without preparing for life under different circumstances!

Then start preparing.

"So What"? Do you only do the "right" thing when everyone else does it?

I dont let everyone else decide what the right thing is. I make that decision for myself.

But then, again, I'm obviously willing to put my money where my mouth is and live by my principals even when it costs me. I'm warped like that.

I have no problem with that, in fact it is admirable. I am not sold on AGW and I am certainly not willing to sacrifice my lifestyle to it since true or not, there is nothing we can do about it.

 

[Baggins]

lordbt

Unaware of the word finite

 

[thaumaturgy]

We dont take oil, we buy it. So do the Chinese.

And when they really want it more than they care to carry our debt, who do you think will be able to buy it?

Its not first come first serve it is available to everyone equally. If China needs more oil, they buy it. As oil becomes more scarce its price will rise. Again, so what?

I will ask again, when China decides to no longer carry our debt, who will be able to buy the more expensive oil?

I dont know what that means.

It means americans drive giant vehicles and act in wasteful ways because we think we are masters of the world. Ultimately we have indebted ourselves so deeply to outside interests (like China) and we get our cheap market goods because of a huge trade deficit with China that our "independence" to act is largely illusory.

I dont plan to do anything to stop them. There is plenty of oil, coal and natural gas for everyone.

Oh my. Really? Sure we have a lot of coal and China has a goodly amount of coal, but oil is possibly in shortening supply. No matter where you think we are on Hubberts Curve, it is all a limited natural resource. It will run out some day.

The US is not going to use it all up.

We've already used up most of the stuff we have within our borders. New stuff will be harder to get and not as inexpensive. That's why we passed peak production back in the 1970's.

Then start preparing.

I am doing some stuff to hopefully forestall that.

I dont let everyone else decide what the right thing is. I make that decision for myself.

Sounded to me like you don't want to enact any change in our habits until you see China and India and the developing world do the same thing. Sounds to me like you indeed are following the herd there.

Again, I am rather strict in trying to act on right versus wrong without reference to what other people are doing.

it since true or not, there is nothing we can do about it.

That is only true if no one starts taking action. But when one's morality is defined by "who else is going to do this with me?", then I suppose it is fait accompli.

 

[lordbt]

lordbt

Unaware of the word finite

Not at all. There will never be a time when there is no more oil left on the planet. There will, however, be a time when it will become too costly to use for the purposes we now use it for. That is not going to happen anytime soon. As the price of oil rises, alternatives will become more viable. Oil will be phased out. It will not run out.

 

[lordbt]

And when they really want it more than they care to carry our debt, who do you think will be able to buy it?



I will ask again, when China decides to no longer carry our debt, who will be able to buy the more expensive oil?

What you are describing here has more to do with the federal governments addiction to deficit spending than it does to our addiction to oil. Sooner or later, China will stop supporting our debt whether we pledge to reduce our emissions or not.

It means americans drive giant vehicles and act in wasteful ways because we think we are masters of the world. Ultimately we have indebted ourselves so deeply to outside interests (like China) and we get our cheap market goods because of a huge trade deficit with China that our "independence" to act is largely illusory.

Again, this is not the fault of individual consumers in the US, but the politicians in Washington DC.

Sounded to me like you don't want to enact any change in our habits until you see China and India and the developing world do the same thing. Sounds to me like you indeed are following the herd there.

Again, I am rather strict in trying to act on right versus wrong without reference to what other people are doing.



That is only true if no one starts taking action. But when one's morality is defined by "who else is going to do this with me?", then I suppose it is fait accompli.

I would oppose government controls like cap and trade whether the Chinese went along with it or not. The government of a free society has no business involving itself in such things.

 

[thaumaturgy]

What you are describing here has more to do with the federal governments addiction to deficit spending than it does to our addiction to oil. Sooner or later, China will stop supporting our debt whether we pledge to reduce our emissions or not.

Which changes not one whit the point I was making. In a market for oil if times get tight, you can bet we have set ourselves on the losing side of that particular "bidding war".

Again, this is not the fault of individual consumers in the US, but the politicians in Washington DC.

Oh, so the folks who by themselves drive around vehicles that get single-digit mpg because of their personal vanity or feelings of "manliness" aren't to blame at all for wasting a known limited resource?

Surely it's "the big bad government's fault"! Of course we are the government. WE demand cheap goods. WE demand cheap oil. WE demand minivans.

The government doesn't force us to live profligately.

 

[nvxplorer]

Not at all. There will never be a time when there is no more oil left on the planet. There will, however, be a time when it will become too costly to use for the purposes we now use it for. That is not going to happen anytime soon. As the price of oil rises, alternatives will become more viable. Oil will be phased out. It will not run out.

Yes, this is Baggins point. What you state holds true because oil is a finite resource. Lousy rebuttal, bt.

 

[lordbt]

Yes, this is Baggins point. What you state holds true because oil is a finite resource. Lousy rebuttal, bt.

Baggins, as usual, wasnt making a point. He was hurling insults. So there was nothing for me to rebut. Obviously oil is a finite resource, but I was commenting on the notion put forth by thaumatergy that the US was "going to use it all up." Oil will never be all used up.

 

[lordbt]

Oh, so the folks who by themselves drive around vehicles that get single-digit mpg because of their personal vanity or feelings of "manliness" aren't to blame at all for wasting a known limited resource?

Hmm. I am beginning to sense that we are getting to the real reason why you support all this climate nonsense and the government control over the individual that it spawns.

The government doesn't force us to live profligately.

And by perpetrating this AGW fraud it will force an end to it. That is the goal, you know. Its not saving the polar bear, it controlling man.

 

[nvxplorer]

Hmm. I am beginning to sense that we are getting to the real reason why you support all this climate nonsense and the government control over the individual that it spawns.

And by perpetrating this AGW fraud it will force an end to it. That is the goal, you know. Its not saving the polar bear, it controlling man.

Paranoia will destroya.

 

[Voegelin]

Paranoia will destroya.

Danes are pretty easy going people. But this week they have rounded up and put over 1,000 people who believe in the science of Al Gore, Phil Jones and James Hansen in specially constructed steel "climate cages".

Are Danes paranoid?


Copenhagen’s climate cages filling up with activists arrested for “pre-emptive” reasons – Rooted)

 

[nvxplorer]

Danes are pretty easy going people. But this week they have rounded up and put over 1,000 people who believe in the science of Al Gore, Phil Jones and James Hansen in specially constructed steel "climate cages".

Are Danes paranoid?


Copenhagen’s climate cages filling up with activists arrested for “pre-emptive” reasons – Rooted)

How do these arrests of protestors support a claim of worldwide scientific/governmental conspiracy?

 

[Voegelin]

How do these arrests of protestors support a claim of worldwide scientific/governmental conspiracy?

Didn't see that claim made. The claim is usually that socialists and communists are distorting science to advance their political agenda. Little doubt of that, is there? Look at those in steel cages in Copenhagen. Red as a setting sun.

 

[Fantine]

Yeah no kidding! And recently I saw the propganda machine-promote this hoax on channel 2 news saying how "good" it was. Well, good for who? The power and greed vipers? Not for anyone else. Good that people get global taxed on a hoax? What idiots!



Climate Change Hoax Ignored by Obama, Gore and the Elite Media
http://www.newswithviews.com/NWV-News/news174.htm

97% of climatologists don't think it's a hoax.

When you want to learn the truth, do you consult the experts in their field?

Or inflammatory talk radio hosts?

 

[nvxplorer]

Didn't see that claim made.

Read what bt wrote. It's all a big conspiracy to control the individual.

The claim is usually that socialists and communists are distorting science to advance their political agenda. Little doubt of that, is there? Look at those in steel cages in Copenhagen. Red as a setting sun.

Okie-dokie, Voegelin. I don't see how the arrest of protestors indicates communist distortion of science, but apparently you do. Paranoia will destroy you as well.

And what of the "free speech zones" erected by Bush? Does that make Bush a communist?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

it controlling man[/B].

Why do libertarians seem to have a pre-disposition to see every government action as some sort of statist conspiracy to seize more power and micro-manage the lives of the masses? No doubt that there actually are statists who think just that. But not everything that requires state intervention is a hoax, conspiracy or unnecessary intrusion. Cap-and-Trade is a case of Keynesian economics, not an attempt to micro-manage your life to the slightest detail.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Didn't see that claim made. The claim is usually that socialists and communists are distorting science to advance their political agenda. Little doubt of that, is there? Look at those in steel cages in Copenhagen. Red as a setting sun.

It appears to me at least that more Conservatives than Socialists (at least in the US) tend to be Creationists, and yet somehow Socialists are guilty of distorting science to advance an agenda? Are you honestly prepared to argue that every climatologist - nay, the majority of climatologists - are Socialists?