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Another look at the moon landing.

ADVISOR HAT

View attachment 376345

Good Grief!!


This thread had a major clean up. What I see is one member made a mistake and then 4-5 pages of harassing, flaming, and disruptive behavior followed.
NOT ONE OF THOSE CRITICIZING A CERTAIN POST REPORTED THE POST SO STAFF COULD HANDLE IT.
Only Apple Pie came to the mods asking for help with her own post.

Here are the rules that were violated in this thread:
  • Promoting* or proselytizing religious beliefs or religions other than Christianity is not allowed. Members who are Satanists (followers of any form of Satanism) are not allowed at CF. For the purpose of these rules, Christianity is defined by Christian Forums' Statement of Faith which is found in the Sitewide Rules.
Astrology is considered non-Christian.
  • Do not personally attack (insult, belittle, mock, ridicule) other members or groups of members on CF, or use nicknames to do so. A list of unacceptable names can be found here.. Address only the content of the post and not the poster.
  • NO Goading. This includes images, cartoons, smileys or post ratings which are clearly meant to goad. Quoting and then editing another members post to change the original meaning, commonly referred to as "fixed it for you" (FIFY), is considered goading.
"Calling out" a member is an unsolicited comment about another member in reference to something they may have said, their personal beliefs, their signature, or their avatar (challenging the member in a negative manner)

Harassment​

  • Be considerate and do not make another member's experience on this site miserable. This includes making false accusations or persistently attacking them in the open forums.

One member cannot demand an apology from another. This is not expressly stated in the rules but it falls under harassment or flaming.


Keep it civil. Do not personally attack a member. IF they post something that concerns you, either report it to staff or remember to use grace when commenting to the member. Remember:


Colossians 4:6 Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.

-


Her forum name is not Apple pie, it is Apple Sky!
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Protest / Right or No Right To Bear Arms

Took like five guys to hold him down. He was a serial harrasser. Who knows what he's before?

I'm not comparing them, but one unarmed young lady was shot.
That lady was part of a mob threatening Congress. After all the bad actions the mob did, I think the cops should have been harder.
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Four dead, ICE arrests illegal immigrant trucker who plowed into Amish van in Indiana

It also says "Catholic", and some non-denominationals are disrespectful to Catholics sometimes. On purpose.
While I do disagree with Roman Catholicism I actually do defend them on many of their misunderstood doctrines and practices.
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True Circumcision: Jesus’ Baptism with the Holy Spirit Fulfills Every OT Ritual Washing

Since the discussion keeps circling around water & purification, it's time to step back & let Scripture define its own categories. Once the Jewish purification framework is laid out, the New Covenant shift from water washing to Spirit purification becomes impossible to miss

Mosaic Law required numerous ceremonial water purification rituals (ablutions): washing hands, feet, bodies, garments & sacred vessels. Jewish law recognized three primary forms: hand washing, hand & foot washing & full‑body immersion in a mikveh (JewishEncyclopedia.com). On the Day of Atonement, the High Priest washed his hands & feet 10 times & immersed his body 5 times. Other priestly duties required additional purifications (Ex 30:19–21; Lev 6:27; 14:8–9; 15:16; 16:4, 24; 22:6)

Every Mosaic observant Israelite understood these washings. A full mikveh immersion expressed:
I acknowledge I'm unclean, I'm turning from that state, I'm returning to covenant faithfulness, I'm restoring my ritual status before God and the community
(Sources: Jewish Virtual Library; Sefaria; Rabbi Samson R. Hirsch)

The pattern was always the same:
Unclean > immerse > clean - Impure > immerse > pure - Out of fellowship > immerse > restored. But these immersions never removed sin. They restored ritual purity, not spiritual regeneration

Jacob purified his household before meeting the Lord at Bethel (Gen 35).

Israel purified themselves before meeting the Lord at Sinai (Ex 19).

John the Baptist prepared Israel to meet the Lord (Mal 3:1; Matt 3:3; Mark 1:2–3; Luke 3:4).

John's baptism of repentance was a traditional Jewish purification immersion. They confessed their sins, acknowledging they were out of fellowship, outside the covenantal markers & immersion restored their ritual standing before God & the community.

John's baptism prepared Israel for the Messiah, through whom remission of sins would come (Acts 19:4). John operated entirely under Mosaic Law & did not baptize Gentiles (Matt 3:1). In Hebrew/Aramaic, repent (שׁוּב, shuv) means “return to the Lord your God.” John's baptism did not save or remit sin.

Acts is a transitional book, mapping the shift from the Old Covenant's physical circumcision (Gen 17:1–14; Acts 7:8) to the New Covenant's spiritual circumcision of Christ (Col 2:11). Pentecost occurred on the Temple Mt & the categories in Acts 2 are entirely Jewish. Archaeologists have documented more than a hundred mikva’ot around the Temple Mount, especially at the Southern Steps where Acts 2 unfolded.

John 3:25 records a dispute about purification, not forgiveness. This is how Jews interpreted immersion. John & Jesus' disciples practiced a baptism of repentance. A ceremonial purification preparing Israel to return to & meet the Lord

Acts 19:4 confirms this: John's baptism was preparatory, pointing people to Christ. None of Israel’s ceremonial washings, including water baptism, remitted sin or granted eternal life. They restored ritual purity, not spiritual regeneration.

Under the New Covenant, Scripture consistently attributes true cleansing, washing, sanctifying & purifying to the Holy Spirit, not to water.

Titus 3:5, the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit - 2 Thes 2:13, sanctification by the Spirit - Rom 15:16, sanctified by the Holy Spirit - 1 Cor 6:11, washed-sanctified-by the Spirit of our God - 1 Pet 1:2, in the sanctification of the Spirit - Acts 15:9, purifying their hearts by faith

Across multiple authors, Paul, Peter & Luke the pattern is identical: The Spirit is the purifier. Water is the symbol

And the major lexicons agree: Sanctification = purification & purification is the Spirit's work.
BDAG: to purify, cleanse from moral defilement - TDNT: cleansing, removal of impurity, purification - Louw–Nida: to purify, to cleanse, to make holy

So when the Spirit fell in Acts 10, the purifier Holy Spirit/Himself acted. Water follows, it never causes.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit remits sin, purifies the heart, grants eternal life & brings a person into the New Covenant. This baptism is performed by Jesus alone (Matt 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:33). No human hands, no ritual water. NEW COVENANT FULFILLMENT: Holy Spirit Baptism as the True Purifier!

Through the Holy Spirit baptism, believers are placed into the body of Christ- by one Spirit (1 Cor 12:13). This is the New Covenant counterpart to the Old Covenant's physical initiation rite. Paul calls it - the circumcision made without hands & the spiritual circumcision of Christ (Col 2:11). It is the inward purification of the heart (Rom 2:29), the very thing Israel's external washings symbolized but could never accomplish.

This Spirit‑given baptism is also God’s eternal salvation seal:
The Spirit abides FOREVER (Jn 14:16) - Believers are SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise (Eph 1:13–14) - SEALED unto the day of redemption (Eph 4:30) - the Holy Spirit is God's earnest/DOWN PAYMENT guaranteeing our inheritance (2 Cor 1:22; 5:5) - the Holy Spirit poured into our hearts is the assurance of God's love (Rom 5:5) the Holy Spirit guards the salvation entrusted to us (2 Tim 1:14)

When Jesus immerses & SEALS a believer with/by/in the Holy Spirit, He accomplishes what every mikveh, every ablution, every priestly washing, every purification rite & John's baptism of repentance symbolize

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the New Covenant fulfillment of all Israel's Old Covenant purification rituals. Water rituals pointed to it. The Spirit performs it. Jesus alone administers it.

From Moses to John to Jesus to Peter to Paul, the pattern never changes: water symbolized purification, but the Holy Spirit performs it. When Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit, every Old Covenant washing finds its fulfillment. Water follows & never causes eternal life or sin remittance.
Someone having a circumcised heart only refers to them being a doer of the Law of Moses (Deuteronomy 30:6, Romans 2:25) while someone having an uncircumcised heart only refers to them not being a doer of the Law of Moses (Jeremiah 9:25, Acts 7:51-53).
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The world heard JD Vance being booed at the Olympics. Except for viewers in the US.

Barack Obama was/is a fairly popular fella, so yes, his middle-name not necessary in a search, but that’s the way the man does it and that’s fine.
Obama's middle name tended not to be mentioned, likely for similar reasons that Gus Grissom's middle name of Ivan wasn't mentioned much.
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There Is Only One Human Nature

What we want is not the same as who we are.


“I couldn’t help seducing my best friend’s wife. It’s just my nature.”

“I’m a hothead. I admit it. I was born that way. Deal with it.”

“You say I’m a liar, but I say you’re a loser. I’m good at lying, and I play the game with whatever nature gave me.”

“I’m a woman in a man’s body. Stop denying my reality.”

Popular culture drums into us the theme that each person’s nature is different. So far, we are oddly selective. For example, the idea of a promiscuous nature is greeted much more warmly than the idea of an adulterous one. Still, if we can have different natures, then how can we be measured by the same natural law?

People are different. From the fact that their personalities are different, though, it doesn’t follow that their natures are different. The virtues are good for all human beings; the vices are bad for all of them. If, for example, I have stronger inclinations to philandering, bad temper or drunkenness than you do, that doesn’t show that I have a different nature or a different virtue than you do, but that I have a character defect. If so, then truly “affirming” me wouldn’t mean encouraging my disordered desires, but encouraging me to keep them in check.


When it comes to drunkenness, most people get this. We don’t say I have a “drunk nature” so that I should get smashed every day; instead we encourage sobriety. Unfortunately, when it comes to certain other areas of life, we don’t get it. To mention just one of them: We call it mean and “judgmental” to encourage sexual purity, because “each person has a different nature.” You may be a one-woman man, but for all you know I’m a 64-woman man. Don’t judge me, bro.

Continued below.

Why do we do things not written in the Bible?

It can't be all the Mosaic Law, because Paul says in (Rom. 13:7-10) (v.7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (v.8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

And that is what God’s holy commandments are all about; the first four tells you how to love God and the last six tells you how to love your neighbor. If you love your God you will not do any thing to offend him, like having other gods before him. You will do as he says like remember the sabbath day to keep it holy on the seventh day of the week. If you love him you will obey him when he tells you not to eat certain meats etc… And the same goes for your fellow man, if you love your neighbor you wouldn’t steal from him, you wouldn’t kill him, you wouldn’t try and sleep with his wife and so on and so forth. (See exodus 20: 1-17)
The 10 commandments were repeated into Jesus two love commandments which we follow with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The Christian does not follow the letter of the law which only convicted without giving anyone a means to repentance. Jesus did that.

If you bother to read the verses that you posted outside of your legalistic view you would see that the “commandments” that Paul refers to here are all dependent on Jesus commandment of love your neighbor. The verse reads that if anyone keeps the love your neighbor command all other commands are kept from that one commandment. This is a big difference that you are not able to grasp.
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About Lk 18 : 18-19

Even in Satan's temptation, one could see love. After all, doesn't he seem to want good for the creature?
Hello Pierre, I'm trying to get caught up, so I've returned to this thread as well (as I think that there was a little bit more to discuss).

Before we continue though, I asked you about the quote above in my last post, but I don't believe that you've addressed it yet (or I missed it if you did). So again, when you say that "in Satan's temptation, one can see love", and that "he (Satan) seems to want good for the creature", why do you feel that either of those ideas are true, and also, where do we find either one of those ideas being expressed in the Scriptures?

Thanks!

--David
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One Faith, One Lord, One Baptism, One God and Father of ALL

One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism: Why Paul’s Words Still Divide the Church
By Michael Del Brown
Few biblical phrases are quoted more confidently—and examined less carefully—than Paul’s declaration in Ephesians 4:5: “One Lord, one faith, one baptism.” The verse is frequently invoked to promote unity, yet paradoxically, baptism remains one of the most divisive practices within modern Christianity.
The division is not merely denominational. It is theological. And at its core lies a fundamental question: Which baptism is Paul referring to?
For many believers, baptism is assumed—almost instinctively—to mean water baptism. It is treated as a universal ordinance, binding on all Christians in every age. But when Paul’s writings are examined on their own terms, a striking tension emerges—one that the modern church has often overlooked.
In 1 Corinthians 1:17, Paul makes a statement that should stop us cold: “Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel.” This is not a casual remark. It is a deliberate distinction. Paul separates his gospel commission from water baptism in a way no other apostle ever does.
If water baptism were essential to the gospel Paul preached—if it were the outward sign of entrance into the body of Christ—his words would be incomprehensible, even irresponsible. Yet Paul doubles down on this distinction throughout his epistles.
In Romans 6, Paul speaks of baptism not in terms of ritual, but reality: believers are baptized into Christ’s death, buried with Him, and raised to newness of life. The agent of this baptism is not water, but the Spirit. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, Paul is explicit: “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body.”
This baptism is not performed by human hands. It is not administered by clergy. It is not repeated, recorded, or photographed. It occurs the moment a person believes the gospel of Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. It is inward, spiritual, and effectual.
By contrast, water baptism—while commanded in Israel’s prophetic program and practiced under the kingdom gospel—belongs to a different context. John’s baptism was explicitly “for Israel” (Acts 13:24). Peter’s call at Pentecost tied baptism to repentance and covenantal restoration (Acts 2:38). These were not abstract symbols; they were covenantal acts rooted in Israel’s national hope.
Paul never places water baptism at the center of justification, salvation, or church unity. In fact, when the Corinthians began forming identities around who baptized whom, Paul rebuked
them sharply. His concern was not improper administration, but misplaced emphasis. The cross—not the water—had become secondary.
This distinction matters because theology shapes practice. When churches conflate Israel’s ordinances with Paul’s gospel, confusion follows. Salvation becomes something supplemented rather than received. Assurance becomes fragile. Unity becomes institutional rather than spiritual.
Paul’s gospel proclaims a finished work. Christ’s death was sufficient. His resurrection was decisive. The believer’s identification with Him is complete—without ritual reinforcement. To insist on water baptism today as a requirement, or even as a normative expression of obedience, risks obscuring the very sufficiency Paul labored to defend.
This is not an argument against baptismal history or against sincere believers who practice it. It is a call to rightly divide the Word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15). Scripture does not flatten God’s unfolding purposes into a single undifferentiated system. Distinctions are not divisions; they are clarifications.
The tragedy is that Paul’s unique apostleship—to the Gentiles, with the revelation of the mystery—has often been absorbed into a broader narrative that was never meant to contain it. When that happens, the church loses sight of what makes the body of Christ distinct: not ritual continuity, but spiritual union.
“One Lord, one faith, one baptism” is not a slogan. It is a doctrinal anchor. And according to Paul, that one baptism is the Spirit’s work—not man’s ceremony.
If the modern church hopes to recover true unity, it must begin where Paul began: not at the font, but at the cross.
And I am FASCINATED by those that quote Eph 4:5 that reads ONE. // HEIS. LORD , ONE //. HEIS ,FAITH

ONE // BAPTISM.

# A AND do you all know that there is ONLY ONE // HEIS , FAITH in Rom 16 :26. Having. been made known to
\
all the Gentiles for OBEDIENCEOF FAITH

And whose FAITH IS IT , by keeping. the LAW or are you IMITATORS. of Paul in 1 Cor. 11:1.

# B. And Eph 4:5 reads ONE // HEIS BAPTISMA and just check. the Greek text and all will see BAPTISMA

IS USED 22 TIMES from Matthew. to 1 Peter 3:2

#C THERE IS BAPTISMOS

# D BAPTO

# E. BAPTISM

# F. BAPTISMA

# G BAPTIZED

# E SPINKING

# F. WASH

# G AND why did John BAPTIZED Jesus and never heard that one and if you say to fill all. righteousness you

have. not answered IT !!

dan p
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Iam hora est: on the SSPX announcement of episcopal consecrations

July 1, 2026 will dawn, and with it shall come either joy or sorrow; the Church shall either rejoice in her greater unity with the new bishops, perhaps even with the participation of a consecrator delegated by the Pope, or she shall be wounded further by deeper division. Iam hora est – now is the time to make a difference.

What if I hate myself?

Self-hatred is a crushing experience. A friend once told me that when his father was teaching him to shave, he said, “the hardest part of shaving every day is looking at the man in the mirror.” For those who struggle with self-loathing, that daily encounter can be profoundly painful. What, then, are Christians to do when they find themselves hating who they are?

First, we must clarify that self-hatred does happen. Some are confused by Paul’s statement in Ephesians 5:29, “For no one ever hated his own flesh.” Paul is speaking proverbially. Like the Proverbs themselves, he uses universal language to communicate a general truth. Generally speaking, people seek their own preservation. Yet in our fallen world, self-loathing — though not universal — is tragically real.

So how should a Christian respond?

First, look up


Continued below.

Can a faithful Christian be damned for not being baptized?

I recently spent time at a well-known prayer retreat where believers gather to seek healing, repentance, and a closer walk with God. It was there where I met a fellow believer whose passion for repentance and obedience was unmistakable. Later, during fellowship in my own home, that passion collided with conviction.

What followed was not a calm theological discussion, but a raised-voice argument — one that escalated into a painful exchange in front of his wife. It was ugly. I regret letting it reach that point.

The issue at the center of the conflict was baptism — and whether a person who has never been baptized can truly be saved.

That experience forced me to step back, not just to reexamine the theology, but to ask a more sobering question: What happens when deeply held beliefs about obedience begin to eclipse grace—and fracture fellowship in the process?

Christians across Evangelical traditions agree on this much: baptism matters. Jesus commanded it. The apostles practiced it. The Church has cherished it as a public declaration of faith and identification with Christ.

Continued below.
I believe we need to be baptized for salvation; I believe the Lord will baptize those through no fault of their own did not receive the sacrament ( Matthew 3:11-12, Luke 3:15-17). This, I believe, is within the scope of what the Lord says in John 3:5-8.

The Lord said to not deny the children ( Mark 10:13-16 etc.). I doubt there is an exception for baptism of infants.

It appears that the early Christians had a fairly wide belief in the innocence of children. An account from a non Christian observer, Aristides, noted this in a brief report meant for the emperor Hadrian ( 125 AD ):



And when a child has been born to one of them, they give thanks to God; and if moreover it happen to die in childhood, they give thanks to God the more, as for one who has passed through the world without sins.




Aristides later became a Christian and is recognized as a saint. The account is from the 15th chapter of his ( about 10 printed pages) letter.


  • Agree
Reactions: The Liturgist
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Hindu mob attacks house church, beats pastor and forces him to walk on thorns

Congregation fears police left their pastor to die after failing to intervene

NEW DELHI — As police looked on, a Hindu nationalist mob in India subjected a pastor to dehumanizing brutality, damaging his hearing in the process as they tried to force him to worship a Hindu deity.

The mob of 150 villagers led garlanded Pastor Bipin Bihari Naik, 35, like a cow by stringing his sandals around his neck and made him walk on thorns as they assaulted him while parading him through Parjang village, Dhenkanal District, Odisha state, on Jan. 4.

Along with tying him to a Hindu temple and forcing him to chant Hindu slogans, they tried to make him drink water mixed with cow dung, the sources said.

Continued below.

Nancy Guthrie’s pastor prays for her safe return, for God to soften hearts of kidnappers

Pastor John Tittle of St. Andrew’s Presbyterian Church in Tucson, Arizona, where Nancy Guthrie, the missing 84-year-old mother of "Today" show co-host Savannah Guthrie, has been a member for 30 years, prayed earnestly with his congregation Sunday for her safe return and that God would soften the hearts of her kidnappers.

“Calm them in the storm. Lord God, bless and guide the authorities in their search for Nancy. Give them wisdom along every step of the path to her,” Tittle prayed during the worship service. “Lord, we ask that you would soften the hearts of those who are responsible that they might come forward and do what is humane and what is right. [We] pray for mercy, for grace to prevail.”

The prayer came just hours after Savannah Guthrie and her siblings, Camron and Annie Guthrie, said in a video Saturday that they are willing to pay a ransom for their mother’s return as authorities moved into the second week of searching for Nancy Guthrie.

Continued below.

Systemic racism in the USA: Are whites "guiltier" if they had slavery in their past?

The Jim Crow laws did end though but some live their lives like they never did. My point is that is time to stop living in the past. The most we emphasize our differences the more racism occurs. Some folks are hell bent on emphasizing our differences.
Nice to say, and I even thought it for a long time, but the last 15 years have taught me the past doesn't die any earlier than the people who lived it, and it's luck if it dies even that quickly.
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Why is the extreme issue with ICE only in one state?

Because Trump sent in the Nat’l Guard when
Such riots escalated to the point of the City
On the brink
Of being destroyed sent a very
Powerful message, thats why it
Disseminated shortly after that and
Saved the city from complete destruction.
1770671675604.png
  • Agree
Reactions: Gene2memE
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Asking AI to explain Sunday observance when NT has no such command

agreed.

And it often finds in seconds what it would take me minutes or hours to find.

But I still check it.

So where are the sources from your previous query? I want to know the basis of its statement (note usually it won’t provide sources; if it is drawing from its own training data chatGPT actually *can’t* provide sources so you literally have to take its word that it knows what its talking about, which it often doesn’t, because chatGPT has a tendency to enter into “roleplay mode” in addition to actual hallucination (which is actually less common than people think) and will also distort its output to conform to your worldview unless explicitly told not to, and by the way your use of the phrase “USING STRICT RULES” is not some kind of AI cheatcode since strict rules does not operate as a meta-syntactic variable for enforced verifiable veracity).

This is why I reject all appeals to AI authority as fallacious outside of a very narrow context of pattern matching where we know the model can perform reliably, and even then, the pattern matching has to be checked, but when asking highly subjective questions with subjective terminology in a subjective and controversial context (did you know chatGPT is trained not to offend mainstream religious sensibilities, particularly those of the user? try making it think your Roman Catholic and ask the questions you’ve been asking and you might see a different answer…and also it does try to infer as much about you as it can from your input prompt when generating a reply, in order to maximize the appeal of the reply; on occasion this went overboard with the infamous sycophancy bug in an update to the much-loved 4o model that happened just under a year ago and was quickly rolled back; many people accuse 4o of sycophancy relatively speaking but for a brief 48 hours or so if you had said you were from Mars and were here to reshape the Earth into a pyramid it would probably have applauded you and offered to help; transient bugs such as that still happen but are usually caught faster; chatGPT engages in A/B testing where user A gets one model and user B gets another model and based on users rathe the relative quality of the results a decision is made about which model to commit to the entire user base, and this is done again and again, iteratively, which drives business users and others who desire stability and predictability crazy; if you use the API you get more control, but you’re not using the API, you’re using the full integrated chatGPT experience which means the overall reliability of the model is reduced).

By the way i say all of this as the man on ChristianForums who has done the most development with openAI and who loves AI in general the most, out of all currently active users (we had a Catholic who was self-hosting AIs he trained himself who alas has moved on, sadly, because at the time I was not actively doing what I am now), which also is why I instantly noticed you had quoted GPT 5.2, which I am not a fan of for various reasons although it has improved over the worthless GPT 5.0 and the creepy, mildly sinister GPT 5.1.
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Super Bowl ads try to overcome tough times with health, caring and the usual laughs

At a difficult time for America, Super Bowl advertisers asked viewers to take care of themselves and others — and maybe even crack a smile.

Continued below.

Backyard vegetable gardens are healthy for people and the planet. Here’s how to start yours

If you want healthy food, experts say to eat what’s local, organic and in-season. Those foods benefit the planet too, because they are less taxing on the soil and they don’t travel as far.

Continued below.

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