FreeinChrist said:

ADVISOR HAT

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Good Grief!!

This thread had a major clean up. What I see is one member made a mistake and then 4-5 pages of harassing, flaming, and disruptive behavior followed.
NOT ONE OF THOSE CRITICIZING A CERTAIN POST REPORTED THE POST SO STAFF COULD HANDLE IT.
Only Apple Pie came to the mods asking for help with her own post.

Here are the rules that were violated in this thread:
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• Promoting* or proselytizing religious beliefs or religions other than Christianity is not allowed. Members who are Satanists (followers of any form of Satanism) are not allowed at CF. For the purpose of these rules, Christianity is defined by Christian Forums' Statement of Faith which is found in the Sitewide Rules.

Astrology is considered non-Christian.
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• Do not personally attack (insult, belittle, mock, ridicule) other members or groups of members on CF, or use nicknames to do so. A list of unacceptable names can be found here.. Address only the content of the post and not the poster.
• NO Goading. This includes images, cartoons, smileys or post ratings which are clearly meant to goad. Quoting and then editing another members post to change the original meaning, commonly referred to as "fixed it for you" (FIFY), is considered goading.

"Calling out" a member is an unsolicited comment about another member in reference to something they may have said, their personal beliefs, their signature, or their avatar (challenging the member in a negative manner)
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Harassment​

• Be considerate and do not make another member's experience on this site miserable. This includes making false accusations or persistently attacking them in the open forums.

One member cannot demand an apology from another. This is not expressly stated in the rules but it falls under harassment or flaming.


Keep it civil. Do not personally attack a member. IF they post something that concerns you, either report it to staff or remember to use grace when commenting to the member. Remember:

Colossians 4:6 Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.

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• What makes CCP members feel insecure: dissenting political opinions;
• What makes common people in China feel insecure: Scams, Food safety issue, Lack of freedom of speech, Lack of religious freedom (persecution of Christians etc).

Chesterton said:

Took like five guys to hold him down. He was a serial harrasser. Who knows what he's before?

I'm not comparing them, but one unarmed young lady was shot.

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Landon Caeli said:

It also says "Catholic", and some non-denominationals are disrespectful to Catholics sometimes. On purpose.

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BrotherJJ said:

Since the discussion keeps circling around water & purification, it's time to step back & let Scripture define its own categories. Once the Jewish purification framework is laid out, the New Covenant shift from water washing to Spirit purification becomes impossible to miss

Mosaic Law required numerous ceremonial water purification rituals (ablutions): washing hands, feet, bodies, garments & sacred vessels. Jewish law recognized three primary forms: hand washing, hand & foot washing & full‑body immersion in a mikveh (JewishEncyclopedia.com). On the Day of Atonement, the High Priest washed his hands & feet 10 times & immersed his body 5 times. Other priestly duties required additional purifications (Ex 30:19–21; Lev 6:27; 14:8–9; 15:16; 16:4, 24; 22:6)

Every Mosaic observant Israelite understood these washings. A full mikveh immersion expressed:
I acknowledge I'm unclean, I'm turning from that state, I'm returning to covenant faithfulness, I'm restoring my ritual status before God and the community
(Sources: Jewish Virtual Library; Sefaria; Rabbi Samson R. Hirsch)

The pattern was always the same:
Unclean > immerse > clean - Impure > immerse > pure - Out of fellowship > immerse > restored. But these immersions never removed sin. They restored ritual purity, not spiritual regeneration

Jacob purified his household before meeting the Lord at Bethel (Gen 35).

Israel purified themselves before meeting the Lord at Sinai (Ex 19).

John the Baptist prepared Israel to meet the Lord (Mal 3:1; Matt 3:3; Mark 1:2–3; Luke 3:4).

John's baptism of repentance was a traditional Jewish purification immersion. They confessed their sins, acknowledging they were out of fellowship, outside the covenantal markers & immersion restored their ritual standing before God & the community.

John's baptism prepared Israel for the Messiah, through whom remission of sins would come (Acts 19:4). John operated entirely under Mosaic Law & did not baptize Gentiles (Matt 3:1). In Hebrew/Aramaic, repent (שׁוּב, shuv) means “return to the Lord your God.” John's baptism did not save or remit sin.

Acts is a transitional book, mapping the shift from the Old Covenant's physical circumcision (Gen 17:1–14; Acts 7:8) to the New Covenant's spiritual circumcision of Christ (Col 2:11). Pentecost occurred on the Temple Mt & the categories in Acts 2 are entirely Jewish. Archaeologists have documented more than a hundred mikva’ot around the Temple Mount, especially at the Southern Steps where Acts 2 unfolded.

John 3:25 records a dispute about purification, not forgiveness. This is how Jews interpreted immersion. John & Jesus' disciples practiced a baptism of repentance. A ceremonial purification preparing Israel to return to & meet the Lord

Acts 19:4 confirms this: John's baptism was preparatory, pointing people to Christ. None of Israel’s ceremonial washings, including water baptism, remitted sin or granted eternal life. They restored ritual purity, not spiritual regeneration.

Under the New Covenant, Scripture consistently attributes true cleansing, washing, sanctifying & purifying to the Holy Spirit, not to water.

Titus 3:5, the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit - 2 Thes 2:13, sanctification by the Spirit - Rom 15:16, sanctified by the Holy Spirit - 1 Cor 6:11, washed-sanctified-by the Spirit of our God - 1 Pet 1:2, in the sanctification of the Spirit - Acts 15:9, purifying their hearts by faith

Across multiple authors, Paul, Peter & Luke the pattern is identical: The Spirit is the purifier. Water is the symbol

And the major lexicons agree: Sanctification = purification & purification is the Spirit's work.
BDAG: to purify, cleanse from moral defilement - TDNT: cleansing, removal of impurity, purification - Louw–Nida: to purify, to cleanse, to make holy

So when the Spirit fell in Acts 10, the purifier Holy Spirit/Himself acted. Water follows, it never causes.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit remits sin, purifies the heart, grants eternal life & brings a person into the New Covenant. This baptism is performed by Jesus alone (Matt 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:33). No human hands, no ritual water. NEW COVENANT FULFILLMENT: Holy Spirit Baptism as the True Purifier!

Through the Holy Spirit baptism, believers are placed into the body of Christ- by one Spirit (1 Cor 12:13). This is the New Covenant counterpart to the Old Covenant's physical initiation rite. Paul calls it - the circumcision made without hands & the spiritual circumcision of Christ (Col 2:11). It is the inward purification of the heart (Rom 2:29), the very thing Israel's external washings symbolized but could never accomplish.

This Spirit‑given baptism is also God’s eternal salvation seal:
The Spirit abides FOREVER (Jn 14:16) - Believers are SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise (Eph 1:13–14) - SEALED unto the day of redemption (Eph 4:30) - the Holy Spirit is God's earnest/DOWN PAYMENT guaranteeing our inheritance (2 Cor 1:22; 5:5) - the Holy Spirit poured into our hearts is the assurance of God's love (Rom 5:5) the Holy Spirit guards the salvation entrusted to us (2 Tim 1:14)

When Jesus immerses & SEALS a believer with/by/in the Holy Spirit, He accomplishes what every mikveh, every ablution, every priestly washing, every purification rite & John's baptism of repentance symbolize

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the New Covenant fulfillment of all Israel's Old Covenant purification rituals. Water rituals pointed to it. The Spirit performs it. Jesus alone administers it.

From Moses to John to Jesus to Peter to Paul, the pattern never changes: water symbolized purification, but the Holy Spirit performs it. When Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit, every Old Covenant washing finds its fulfillment. Water follows & never causes eternal life or sin remittance.

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Pommer said:

Barack Obama was/is a fairly popular fella, so yes, his middle-name not necessary in a search, but that’s the way the man does it and that’s fine.

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Bro.T said:

It can't be all the Mosaic Law, because Paul says in (Rom. 13:7-10) (v.7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (v.8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

And that is what God’s holy commandments are all about; the first four tells you how to love God and the last six tells you how to love your neighbor. If you love your God you will not do any thing to offend him, like having other gods before him. You will do as he says like remember the sabbath day to keep it holy on the seventh day of the week. If you love him you will obey him when he tells you not to eat certain meats etc… And the same goes for your fellow man, if you love your neighbor you wouldn’t steal from him, you wouldn’t kill him, you wouldn’t try and sleep with his wife and so on and so forth. (See exodus 20: 1-17)

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peter2 said:

Even in Satan's temptation, one could see love. After all, doesn't he seem to want good for the creature?

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PastorMichaelDelBrown said:

One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism: Why Paul’s Words Still Divide the Church
By Michael Del Brown
Few biblical phrases are quoted more confidently—and examined less carefully—than Paul’s declaration in Ephesians 4:5: “One Lord, one faith, one baptism.” The verse is frequently invoked to promote unity, yet paradoxically, baptism remains one of the most divisive practices within modern Christianity.
The division is not merely denominational. It is theological. And at its core lies a fundamental question: Which baptism is Paul referring to?
For many believers, baptism is assumed—almost instinctively—to mean water baptism. It is treated as a universal ordinance, binding on all Christians in every age. But when Paul’s writings are examined on their own terms, a striking tension emerges—one that the modern church has often overlooked.
In 1 Corinthians 1:17, Paul makes a statement that should stop us cold: “Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel.” This is not a casual remark. It is a deliberate distinction. Paul separates his gospel commission from water baptism in a way no other apostle ever does.
If water baptism were essential to the gospel Paul preached—if it were the outward sign of entrance into the body of Christ—his words would be incomprehensible, even irresponsible. Yet Paul doubles down on this distinction throughout his epistles.
In Romans 6, Paul speaks of baptism not in terms of ritual, but reality: believers are baptized into Christ’s death, buried with Him, and raised to newness of life. The agent of this baptism is not water, but the Spirit. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, Paul is explicit: “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body.”
This baptism is not performed by human hands. It is not administered by clergy. It is not repeated, recorded, or photographed. It occurs the moment a person believes the gospel of Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. It is inward, spiritual, and effectual.
By contrast, water baptism—while commanded in Israel’s prophetic program and practiced under the kingdom gospel—belongs to a different context. John’s baptism was explicitly “for Israel” (Acts 13:24). Peter’s call at Pentecost tied baptism to repentance and covenantal restoration (Acts 2:38). These were not abstract symbols; they were covenantal acts rooted in Israel’s national hope.
Paul never places water baptism at the center of justification, salvation, or church unity. In fact, when the Corinthians began forming identities around who baptized whom, Paul rebuked
them sharply. His concern was not improper administration, but misplaced emphasis. The cross—not the water—had become secondary.
This distinction matters because theology shapes practice. When churches conflate Israel’s ordinances with Paul’s gospel, confusion follows. Salvation becomes something supplemented rather than received. Assurance becomes fragile. Unity becomes institutional rather than spiritual.
Paul’s gospel proclaims a finished work. Christ’s death was sufficient. His resurrection was decisive. The believer’s identification with Him is complete—without ritual reinforcement. To insist on water baptism today as a requirement, or even as a normative expression of obedience, risks obscuring the very sufficiency Paul labored to defend.
This is not an argument against baptismal history or against sincere believers who practice it. It is a call to rightly divide the Word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15). Scripture does not flatten God’s unfolding purposes into a single undifferentiated system. Distinctions are not divisions; they are clarifications.
The tragedy is that Paul’s unique apostleship—to the Gentiles, with the revelation of the mystery—has often been absorbed into a broader narrative that was never meant to contain it. When that happens, the church loses sight of what makes the body of Christ distinct: not ritual continuity, but spiritual union.
“One Lord, one faith, one baptism” is not a slogan. It is a doctrinal anchor. And according to Paul, that one baptism is the Spirit’s work—not man’s ceremony.
If the modern church hopes to recover true unity, it must begin where Paul began: not at the font, but at the cross.

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July 1, 2026 will dawn, and with it shall come either joy or sorrow; the Church shall either rejoice in her greater unity with the new bishops, perhaps even with the participation of a consecrator delegated by the Pope, or she shall be wounded further by deeper division. Iam hora est – now is the time to make a difference.

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Iam hora est: on the SSPX announcement of episcopal consecrations

The liturgical scholar Dom Alcuin Reid on the SSPX’s episcopal consecrations

thecatholicherald.com

Michie said:

I recently spent time at a well-known prayer retreat where believers gather to seek healing, repentance, and a closer walk with God. It was there where I met a fellow believer whose passion for repentance and obedience was unmistakable. Later, during fellowship in my own home, that passion collided with conviction.

What followed was not a calm theological discussion, but a raised-voice argument — one that escalated into a painful exchange in front of his wife. It was ugly. I regret letting it reach that point.

The issue at the center of the conflict was baptism — and whether a person who has never been baptized can truly be saved.

That experience forced me to step back, not just to reexamine the theology, but to ask a more sobering question: What happens when deeply held beliefs about obedience begin to eclipse grace—and fracture fellowship in the process?

Christians across Evangelical traditions agree on this much: baptism matters. Jesus commanded it. The apostles practiced it. The Church has cherished it as a public declaration of faith and identification with Christ.

Continued below.

Can a faithful Christian be damned for not being baptized?

When obedience becomes the doorway to grace, the Gospel is quietly altered

www.christianpost.com

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Yarddog said:

Yeah, I used to be a Southern Baptist. Lol

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Hentenza said:

The Jim Crow laws did end though but some live their lives like they never did. My point is that is time to stop living in the past. The most we emphasize our differences the more racism occurs. Some folks are hell bent on emphasizing our differences.

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Linda426 said:

Because Trump sent in the Nat’l Guard when
Such riots escalated to the point of the City
On the brink
Of being destroyed sent a very
Powerful message, thats why it
Disseminated shortly after that and
Saved the city from complete destruction.

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BobRyan said:

agreed.

And it often finds in seconds what it would take me minutes or hours to find.

But I still check it.

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