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tonychanyt · Sep 23, 2024

1Th 1:

8 For not only has the word of the Lord sounded forth from you in Macedonia and Achaia, but your faith in God has gone forth everywhere, so that we need not say anything. 9 For they themselves report concerning us the kind of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, 10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

The wrath of God often referred to the final judgment of God. Here the context was the second coming of Jesus.

ESV, 1 Thessalonians 2:

14 For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea. For you suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they did from the Jews, 15 who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out,

Jews persecuted Jewish Christians.

and displease God and oppose all mankind 16 by hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles that they might be saved—so as always to fill up the measure of their sins. But wrath has come upon them at last!"

Verb - Aorist Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
It wasn't the perfect tense.

When Paul wrote this, the destruction of Jerusalem had not happened.

What kind of wrath was Paul talking about? The destruction of the temple?

From this context, the 'wrath' could refer to the immediate spiritual rejection of the wrongful Jews. Paul pointed out the serious consequences of opposition to God’s message. However, it did not exclude the eventual fulfillment of judgment that culminated in the destruction of Jerusalem.

1Th 5:

1 Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. 2 For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

Again, the context was the second coming.

9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him.

The word 'wrath' appeared three times in the epistle of 1 Thessalonians. Two times, the context was the second coming. The word 'temple' never even appeared in the entire epistle. It is unlikely that Paul had the temple's destruction in mind when he used the word 'wrath' in 1Th 2:16.

Did 1 Thessalonians 2:16 allude to the destruction of Jerusalem?

It might, but I doubt it.

7thKeeper · Sep 23, 2024

I think we all need to address Mark Robinson and tell him something.

*cough**cough*

Mark.

Dear Mark.

Uncle Ruckus was parody and satire. Not a goal to be surpassed.

boughtwithaprice · Sep 23, 2024

RileyG said:
Christ promised he will return and the gates of hell won't prevail. I trust in him.

Yes the Church will endure. There is no such promise to the United States. The Holy See is in Rome, but the Roman Empire still fell. The Church remains

7thKeeper · Sep 23, 2024

rjs330 said:
It's an idiom.

This is just terminology, but no, calling people vermin/locusts/etc isn't using an idiom.
Idiom is:

1: an expression in the usage of a language that is peculiar to itself either in having a meaning that cannot be derived from the conjoined meanings of its elements (such as up in the air for "undecided") or in its grammatically atypical use of words (such as give way)

2
a : the language peculiar to a people or to a district, community, or class : dialect

b: the syntactical, grammatical, or structural form peculiar to a language

3: a style or form of artistic expression that is characteristic of an individual, a period or movement, or a medium or instrument
the modern jazz idiom

broadly : manner, style
a new culinary idiom

KevinT · Sep 23, 2024

Good to know.

Michie · Sep 23, 2024

Pope Francis has named 28 new consultors to the Vatican’s Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith, including moral theologian Father Maurizio Chiodi, who has expressed opinions contrary to Church teaching.

Chiodi, a moral theologian, has come under media scrutiny in recent years for suggesting contraception use in marriagecould be morally permissible in some circumstances.

In a 2017 lecture in Rome, the priest also said that homosexual relationships “under certain conditions” could be “the most fruitful way” for those with same-sex attraction “to enjoy good relations.”

Continued below.

Pope Francis names 28 consultants to Vatican doctrine office

Pope Francis has named 28 new consultors to the Vatican’s Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith, including controversial moral theologian Father Maurizio Chiodi.

www.catholicnewsagency.com

Michie · Sep 23, 2024

‘Concomitance,’ as St. Thomas Aquinas explains it, means that ‘nothing is lost by the body being received by the people without the blood.’

This summer, I got to celebrate Holy Mass in the Brooklyn parish where I stay when I’m home from my assignment as the academic dean of the Pontifical North American College in Rome. It is always a joy to offer Mass for a parish community. For me, it is a homecoming.

This parish is a multi-ethnic one in my diocese with a pastor born in Pakistan, an Urdu Mass, growing Haitian and Hispanic communities, and many other people, most of them longtime residents of this area of Brooklyn. It has in many ways become a welcoming oasis for me, a true family, and a place of rest and prayer. Named after the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I feel her motherly protection and presence — never more so than this summer when I offered my own mother’s funeral Mass in this parish.

One of the things that the parishioners of this parish have told me over my many years of association with it is that they truly appreciate homilies that teach them about the faith. These are parishioners who tell me that they are yearning for content and catechesis. They have mentioned that, as much as they appreciate nice stories about nice people being nice to others (basically what Bishop Robert Barron has described as “beige Catholicism,” which is its own brand of Moralistic Therapeutic Deism), what they want most of all is to learn about the faith — its contents, its practices and tradition, and how best to live this faith out in the world today.

Continued below.

Every Catholic Needs to Know About This Little-Known Eucharistic Doctrine

‘Concomitance,’ as St. Thomas Aquinas explains it, means that ‘nothing is lost by the body being received by the people without the blood.’

www.ncregister.com

Michie · Sep 23, 2024

Yes it is! I enjoyed the pictures. Thank you!

Pioneer3mm · Sep 23, 2024

Lausanne 1
- 1974
- The First International Congress on World Evangelization
- Lausanne, Switzerland
---
It had an impact/influence..on my spiritual/mission journey.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Sep 23, 2024

Fantine said:
We are pledged to help Israel defend itself.
Netanyahu has already gone far beyond that mission in his scorched earth Gaza genocide.
And now he is the aggressor, attacking Lebanon over and over--instead of pursuing diplomacy.
Israel is no longer "defending" itself. It is time for us to stop financing these aggressive campaigns and return to our original pledge.
Help Israel if it needs defense.
Tell Netanyahu when he attacks it's on his dime.

Diplomacy was tried over and over and over and over. Diplomacy only works if BOTH parties want peace which is NOT the case here when Hamas and Hezbollah hate and want to kill Jews...

chevyontheriver · Sep 23, 2024

RileyG said:
Are you referring to the aborted babies in heaven? I'm sure they can intercede for us. I think we ultimately leave it to the mercy of God.

I wasn't referring to them, but there is that, more intercessors.

Michie · Sep 23, 2024

English actress and international disability rights activist Liz Carr, who produced and stars in the 2024 BBC documentary "Better Off Dead?", speaks in the U.S. Congress on Sept. 18, 2024. | Credit: Ken Oliver-Méndez/CNA

Last week, the first screening in the U.S. of the BBC documentary “Better Off Dead?” took place in the United States Congress.

Produced by British actress and renowned disability rights advocate Liz Carr, the film shows from a secular perspective how assisted-suicide laws around the world threaten the lives of individuals with disabilities.

Carr, who is not religious, told CNA that for many people, the absence of nonreligious arguments against assisted suicide has disadvantaged the cause.

Continued below.

‘Better Off Dead?’ documentary sharpens suicide prevention focus

Liz Carr’s “Better Off Dead?” documentary shows how assisted-suicide laws around the world threaten the lives of individuals with disabilities.

www.catholicnewsagency.com

mourningdove~ · Sep 23, 2024

RileyG said:
I can never understand that mentality. Makes no sense to me.

It is as if a murderous spirit of death has spread across our land ... like an uncontrollable cancer ... and only God can stop it.

Always in His Presence · Sep 23, 2024

I saw this in my history - it's an old thread, but I think even more relevant now, 13 years later with the increase in AI, social media etc.

I think it is a delicate balance between letting people know what the church is doing and just advertising.

Fantine · Sep 23, 2024

Thanks, Suzanne Bowdey, for your opinion piece. It will surely be appreciated by those who already agree.

Jeffrey Bowden · Sep 23, 2024

ViaCrucis said:
The Christians living in Philadelphia when St. John wrote the Apocalypse, to whom this is being said, are no longer around. How can you simply ignore the context and declare this "is about the future" when it is clearly written to people two thousand years ago and is being said to them explicitly?

There is no exegesis being done to make this claim. It requires making things up that are not in Bible at all.

-CryptoLutheran

Rev 3:10 is about the future 7-year Trib. Rev 4:1 is wholly in the future. Rev 22:8 proves John never left the island of Patmos because one angel showed John everything he heard and saw in his entire vision of Revelation. Please read Rev 22:8.

Therefore, John merely wrote about Rev 4:1 and heard and saw everything about it in his vision.

1 Th 1:10 (ESV): and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come

The Trib is a future event which starts with Rev 6:1-2. The wrath of God, in the Trib, begins no later than Rev 6:4 regarding “wars” that will suddenly break out all over the world.

God’s wrath is well-defined in Ezekiel 14:21 (NLT): “Now this is what the Sovereign Lord says: How terrible it will be when all four of these dreadful punishments fall upon Jerusalem—war, famine, wild animals, and disease—destroying all her people and animals.

Here’s Rev 6:4 (NLT): Then another horse appeared, a red one. Its rider was given a mighty sword and the authority to take peace from the earth. And there was war and slaughter everywhere.

Rev 6:4 is about the 2nd seal. It will feature one of the four most dreadful forms of God’s wrath: wars. Wars in the 2nd seal will occur all over the world simultaneously. It’s truly Hell on Earth. Many inhabitants of Earth will be killed.

So, we know that God’s wrath will come in the 2nd seal. That satisfies the requirement for God’s wrath at the beginning of the Trib, for the purposes of 1 Th 1:10.

“Delivers us” in 1 Th 1:10 relates to the second usage of “deliverance,” in the Bible. That second usage translates to “snatch away.” Therefore, that verse is about our being “snatched away" just before God’s wrath comes in the Trib. We know from Rev 6:4 that God’s wrath will come in the 2nd seal.

1 Th 1:10 is the first verse Apostle Paul wrote about the pre-Trib rapture. We will be raptured (snatched away) from Earth immediately prior to the Trib due to God’s wrath about to come in the 2nd seal.

That is what Jesus means in Rev 3:10. He will keep us from “the hour of trial.” We believers will not enter the 7-year Trib.

bèlla · Sep 23, 2024

No one who's read the signs is staying here. They're liquidating and going overseas. Everyone's selling.

~bella

tampasteve · Sep 23, 2024

ADMIN HAT ON

I am shutting this thread down. Come on people, we don't need a thread to bash one another, which is what this has become. Be better than that.

ADMIN HAT OFF

RileyG · Sep 23, 2024

Good for her for standing up for what she believes is right!

RileyG · Sep 23, 2024

Lord, have mercy on Belgium :prayer:

trophy33 · Sep 23, 2024

Michie said:
Christie explained that Amendment 4 would allow abortion without restriction prior to the point of the baby being viable outside the womb, usually determined to be between 21 and 24 weeks’ gestation, and would allow late-term abortions in cases of risk to the mother’s health.

The amendment would make the state “a deregulated abortion regime that would equal that of North Korea,” she said.

For a comparison:

Common Time Limits: Many EU countries permit abortion on demand or for broad social reasons within a 10 to 14-week gestational limit. For instance, Germany and Italy set the limit at 12 weeks, while France and Spain allow it up to 14 weeks.

Exceptions for Later Abortions: After these initial limits, many countries provide exceptions for medical reasons, such as threats to the woman's health or severe fetal anomalies. For example, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom allow abortions up to 24 weeks under certain conditions.

Abortion in Europe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

FireDragon76 · Sep 23, 2024

BobRyan said:
sure looks like Lev 18 abomination. Why is Biden so interested in getting it into North Macedonia??

You know, most Christians worldwide aren't fundamentalists. Your opinions as a SDA can't speak for all Christians. You're entitled to your views, but we don't have to agree with your biblical interpretation.

Barefootbernie · Sep 23, 2024

mrunk said:
I want to learn to better Obey God. Only for me learning from the bible is massively difficult. Some parts of the bible I find interesting other times it's boring (I'm not knocking the bible or trying to be rude or hurt Gods feelings.). It doesn't help I'm not book smart. I learn more from others then from books or just figuring things out for myself. Sadly the bible is not something I can figure out on my own. Some things I understand quickly but there lots of things I can't break down. So let me give you an example.

So take Genesis's. I can read the book of Genesis's and understand the surface layers of things. However when I try and learn what other hidden things are being taught I got nothing. My brain just doesn't work that way. It's why I did terrible in school. If some one explains something to me I can understand it. Trying to unravel the bible hidden stuff is way beyond my abilities. It actually makes me feel stupid. Some times I might pick up on something but most of the time I don't.

People given me advice on how to study the bible and that advice would probably work for most people but not me. For most people studying the bible is like going up a steep hill or a mountain hard but do able. For me its like defying gravity and learning how to fly. I don't know what to do. Right now I just try and learn from others and expand my knowledge that way. I don't know what to do?

The bible becomes interesting when you allow the Holy Spirit to reveal to you that Christ lives in you.Especially in the letters of Paul..he speaks of the reality of Christ.Once you ask the Holy Spirit to truly reveal Christ to you and in you..you will find the scriptures completely new and fresh everyday..

Offline4Better. · Sep 23, 2024

Mark Quayle said:
No more than the far majority of humanity, and even of the church, that assumes such things as "the command implies the ability to obey", and the validity of notions such as causation by chance or randomness.

But to be specific to the machine's assumptions: It did a good job of representing what was quoted to it as Aquinas' statement. But the last line is what got me. "...Aquinas acknowledges that God's knowledge is certain and infallible about future contingencies, which means some contingent beings do come into existence despite the possibility of non-existence." I can't help but wondering —WHAT possibility of non-existence?

It seems a poor way to describe the meaning of contingency, in the context of God. If God brings a contingent being into existence, where is the possibility that it might not have existed? But then, maybe my puzzlement here harks back to my disagreement with the notion that this proves God's existence, but instead, rather, proves only that if we say thus and such, then we should believe this and that.

Maybe I'm wrong, but to me, the philosophical use of 'contingency', here, has to do with HOW a thing exists —that is, whether the being, (let's say, being 2) is a necessary being or whether it is dependent on a necessary being (being 1)— not, after all, whether it is possible that the being 2 might not have existed. What God has determined will surely come to pass.

No idea here. We do not need theologians to believe that God is real. All we need is our faith.

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