A whites-only community in Arkansas looking to start a franchise in Missouri

[MrMoe]

No, they use babies as targets.

-CryptoLutheran

Source?

 

[MrMoe]

During the George W. Bush administration America's official position is that America doesn't torture.

Guantanamo Bay detention camp - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

-CryptoLutheran

What’s your argument here? That because the Bush administration lied about not torturing that means Israel is lying too?

If so, that would be a guilt by association fallacy.

 

[MrMoe]

And here's something that is truly infuriating and sad.

If a bunch of queer folk wanted to set up a queer-only community, I am with full confidence able to say that the posters here who are saying "what's the big deal?" to white supremacists would sing a very different tune.

I am confident that many here believe members of the LGBTQ+ community are more evil or a bigger social threat than white supremacists.

I am also confident that if these weren't white supremacists, but Muslims, or black, then that would also be a huge problem. But because these are white supremacists and not gay people, not black people, not Muslim people--then hey, no big deal.

Dear MrMoe, how would you feel if this was a group of gay people, or a group of Muslims doing this? Let's get crazy with this hypothetical, what if it was a bunch of gay black Muslims?

-CryptoLutheran

If it was legal then I would have no problem with it.

 

[MrMoe]

That's not how it works.

How does it work then?

Again, I point to my signature.

Yes, words do have meaning. I’m pretty sure Gad Saad knows that.

 

[MrMoe]

Elsewhere in the interview, Dr Maynard claimed Israeli soldiers are shooting civilians at aid points "almost like a game of target practice".

Dr Maynard continued: "What was even more distressing was the pattern of injuries that we saw, the clustering of injuries to particular body parts on certain days.

"One day they'd be coming in predominately with gunshot wounds to the head or the neck, another day to the chest, another day to the abdomen.

"Twelve days ago, four young teenage boys came in, all of whom had been shot in the testicles and deliberately so. This is not coincidental.

"The clustering was far too obvious to be coincidental, and it seemed to us like this was almost like a game of target practice.

"I would never have believed this possible unless I'd witnessed this with my own eyes."

British surgeon claims IDF shooting Gazans in specific areas - 'almost like a game of target practice'

The IDF said it "categorically rejected" claims of "intentional harm to civilians, particularly in the manner described" - after Dr Maynard made the allegations in a Sky News interview with Yalda Hakim.

news.sky.com

How does this prove it’s Israeli soldiers that did this?

This is fascinating. You’re willing to give Hamas; a terrorist organisation that is known for killing its own citizens and that has a sophisticated and multifaceted media and propaganda wing, the benefit of the doubt but not Israel. It’s almost like you want it to be Israel.

 

[MrMoe]

Frequently, yes. It's called forensics.

Hospital doctor and forensics are two different fields.

 

[MrMoe]

It was just a general question about the morality of what Israel has been doing in Gaza. I thought that was quite clear enough.

Israel doesn’t deliberately target civilian populated areas like in your hypothetical.

 

[Bradskii]

Israel doesn’t deliberately target civilian populated areas like in your hypothetical.

I'm sure those who blew up your house weren't intentionally targeting your family either. But they knew they'd be killed. From here: Israel bombed Gaza's crowded Jabaliya refugee camp to kill Hamas leader underneath

'Israeli airstrikes flattened apartment buildings and damaged other structures in the densely packed Jabaliya refugee camp just outside Gaza City on Tuesday. The Gaza Health Ministry said hundreds of people were injured or killed in the blast...Another Israeli military spokesperson, Lt. Col. Richard Hecht, acknowledged to CNN's Wolf Blitzer that Israel bombed the area even though it knew civilians could be struck...'

Allow me to rewrite that:

'An FBI action flattened an apartment building and damaged other structures in the US on Tuesday. Officials said that a family known to be in the building were incinerated in the blast...Another FBI spokesperson acknowledged to CNN's Wolf Blitzer that they bombed the area to take out a known terrorist even though they knew the family could be killed...'

So, let's see. You think the first example is acceptable (actually, from your comment, you don't even think it happened). But not the second, where it's your wife and children who will be blown to bits and crushed in the rubble of your home.

Can you explain why that is?

 

[MrMoe]

I'm sure those who blew up your house weren't intentionally targeting your family either. But they knew they'd be killed. From here: Israel bombed Gaza's crowded Jabaliya refugee camp to kill Hamas leader underneath

'Israeli airstrikes flattened apartment buildings and damaged other structures in the densely packed Jabaliya refugee camp just outside Gaza City on Tuesday. The Gaza Health Ministry said hundreds of people were injured or killed in the blast...Another Israeli military spokesperson, Lt. Col. Richard Hecht, acknowledged to CNN's Wolf Blitzer that Israel bombed the area even though it knew civilians could be struck...'

Allow me to rewrite that:

'An FBI action flattened an apartment building and damaged other structures in the US on Tuesday. Officials said that a family known to be in the building were incinerated in the blast...Another FBI spokesperson acknowledged to CNN's Wolf Blitzer that they bombed the area to take out a known terrorist even though they knew the family could be killed...'

So, let's see. You think the first example is acceptable (actually, from your comment, you don't even think it happened). But not the second, where it's your wife and children who will be blown to bits and crushed in the rubble of your home.

Can you explain why that is?

It’s interesting that you left out the very next thing Lt. Col. Richard Hecht said: “but he said Israel warned the civilians to move to southern Gaza and insisted the military tries to minimize civilian casualties.”

They could leave, unlike your hypothetical where I’m being held hostage and can’t leave. So your hypothetical is a false equivalency.

Also from the same article: “Israeli military spokesperson Lt. Col. Jonathan Conricus said the commander, Ibrahim Biari, was a key planner of the deadly Oct. 7 attack in southern Israel, and Israel's bombs struck between buildings. "We don't intend for the ground to collapse," he told reporters.”

So my comment still stands. Israel does not deliberately target civilians. Unlike Hamas.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

How does it work then?

Even if one emotion gives rise to another, the emotions are still distinct and separate. You can't reasonably call sympathy empathy just because the sympathetic feelings may have arisen from feelings of empathy.

Yes, words do have meaning. I’m pretty sure Gad Saad knows that.

Evidence would suggest otherwise.

 

[MrMoe]

Even if one emotion gives rise to another, the emotions are still distinct and separate.

I know.

You can't reasonably call sympathy empathy

I’m not. I’m calling empathy empathy.

just because the sympathetic feelings may have arisen from feelings of empathy.

And if sympathetic feelings arise from feelings of empathy I can still call the empathy empathy, right? Both empathy and sympathy can exist together, right?

Evidence would suggest otherwise.

What evidence?

 

[Bradskii]

So my comment still stands. Israel does not deliberately target civilians. Unlike Hamas.

For the sake of this discussion I have agreed to that (although we know they have shot people trying to get to food supplies - I watched a news report last night where you could see the bullets hitting the ground metres away from a crowd which included many children).

But they bomb places knowing that civilians will be killed. Good grief man, the people blown apart had already been bombed out of their homes. They were in a refugee camp, the largest in Gaza. They were, by the very meaning of the word taking refuge there. And you think that a trite 'Hey, do you mind moving about 25 miles further down the coast' excuses the Israeli action? You have a family with kids, living in a tent with next to no food, water or medical supplies. Maybe they had already lost family members or friends. They are living in terror. And you think it's pretty straightforward to tell them to just spend a couple of days making their way through the rubble to somewhere 'safer'?

Israel bombed an area that they themselves had declared a safe zone. Another refugee camp. No warning: What’s Mawasi, the Israel-designated Gaza ‘safe zone’ it bombed overnight?

'Under international pressure for the “scale” of its war on Gaza, Israel designated al-Mawasi a “safe zone” in October last year, using leaflets, social media, and phone calls to tell people to go there for safety. Israel says several senior Hamas figures were in the humanitarian zone.

“[E]xtensive intelligence gathering was conducted, as well as continuous aerial surveillance in the hours leading up to the strike, which confirmed the presence of the terrorists in the area,” the statement read.

Analysis of footage of the bomb site by Al Jazeera’s Sanad suggests that Israel deployed the US-manufactured 2,000-pound MK-84 bomb on the encampment.'

In total, excluding the 19 deaths recorded in the latest attack, Israel has killed 148 people in its raids on the humanitarian zone. The biggest attack occurred on July 13, 90 people were killed and at least 300 wounded.'

This is even worse than the US example I gave. They told people to go to this place because they'd be safe. And then bombed it. Are you really sure that you think these actions are acceptable? Are you really sure that you want to excuse this?

 

[Larniavc]

How does this prove it’s Israeli soldiers that did this?

This is fascinating. You’re willing to give Hamas; a terrorist organisation that is known for killing its own citizens and that has a sophisticated and multifaceted media and propaganda wing, the benefit of the doubt but not Israel. It’s almost like you want it to be Israel.

Crikey. With all the International condemnation and accusations of human rights violations and eye witness testimony and Israel’s denial of external reporting it’s almost as if you refuse to see what’s in front of your face.

Hamas is terrible. But so is the current Israeli administration and the IDF.

 

[Larniavc]

Israel doesn’t deliberately target civilian populated areas like in your hypothetical.

The IDF does.

 

[Larniavc]

It’s interesting that you left out the very next thing Lt. Col. Richard Hecht said: “but he said Israel warned the civilians to move to southern Gaza and insisted the military tries to minimize civilian casualties.”

It is a flawed analogy. In America possessions are most more important than people.

 

[Larniavc]

I’m calling empathy empathy.

They are two different things. If you don’t know that by now I don’t know what to tell you.

 

[ralliann]

I realize that sounds like the sort of propaganda that is always spewed to demonize the enemy. How much of it is actual we really don't know at this point.

Yes we do know.

I'm not sure what this has to do with the Whites-only community....unless you are identifying/equating Israeli Jews with American Whites and evil Palestinians with non-White Americans?

Someone brought it up as often happens in threads. So who is equating here. Hamas is evil .

 

[DaisyDay]

Yes we do know.

No, we do not however much we may desire for that to be so.

Someone brought it up as often happens in threads.

Okay, so?

So who is equating here.

You. You did in the post I quoted, even if other people also did it first.

Hamas is evil .

As are the people committing genocide.

But again, this has nothing to do with the actual subject of this thread which seems to have been completely derailed (not just by you).

 

[MrMoe]

For the sake of this discussion I have agreed to that (although we know they have shot people trying to get to food supplies - I watched a news report last night where you could see the bullets hitting the ground metres away from a crowd which included many children).

By “they” I assume you mean Hamas.

But they bomb places knowing that civilians will be killed. Good grief man, the people blown apart had already been bombed out of their homes.

This is contradicted by Lt. Col. Jonathan Conricus: "We don't intend for the ground to collapse,". Meaning they didn’t know civilians would be killed.

They were in a refugee camp, the largest in Gaza. They were, by the very meaning of the word taking refuge there. And you think that a trite 'Hey, do you mind moving about 25 miles further down the coast' excuses the Israeli action? You have a family with kids, living in a tent with next to no food, water or medical supplies. Maybe they had already lost family members or friends. They are living in terror. And you think it's pretty straightforward to tell them to just spend a couple of days making their way through the rubble to somewhere 'safer'?

Israel bombed an area that they themselves had declared a safe zone. Another refugee camp. No warning: What’s Mawasi, the Israel-designated Gaza ‘safe zone’ it bombed overnight?

'Under international pressure for the “scale” of its war on Gaza, Israel designated al-Mawasi a “safe zone” in October last year, using leaflets, social media, and phone calls to tell people to go there for safety. Israel says several senior Hamas figures were in the humanitarian zone.

“[E]xtensive intelligence gathering was conducted, as well as continuous aerial surveillance in the hours leading up to the strike, which confirmed the presence of the terrorists in the area,” the statement read.

Analysis of footage of the bomb site by Al Jazeera’s Sanad suggests that Israel deployed the US-manufactured 2,000-pound MK-84 bomb on the encampment.'

In total, excluding the 19 deaths recorded in the latest attack, Israel has killed 148 people in its raids on the humanitarian zone. The biggest attack occurred on July 13, 90 people were killed and at least 300 wounded.'

This is even worse than the US example I gave. They told people to go to this place because they'd be safe. And then bombed it. Are you really sure that you think these actions are acceptable? Are you really sure that you want to excuse this?

I wouldn’t trust Al Jazeera as a reliable news source for this war. They are strongly suspected of being a propaganda wing for Hamas, and their news reporting is mixed.

 

[MrMoe]

Crikey. With all the International condemnation and accusations of human rights violations and eye witness testimony and Israel’s denial of external reporting it’s almost as if you refuse to see what’s in front of your face.

Hamas is terrible. But so is the current Israeli administration and the IDF.

What’s in front of my face is you trying to lay blame on the IDF for shooting civilians simply based on anecdotes.