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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
There’s a Giant Flaw in Human History
- By stevevw
- Physical & Life Sciences
- 589 Replies
Or that I mention it after the idea had been introduced. I have written an aweful lot of words so 12 times is not much. I think the idea has been mentioned by others way more.
But it doesn't matter. It was inevitable now it seems that such a thread like this would bring up such a word. I have to deal with that and that is what I am doing. Like I said in some ways this is actually redirecting things back to the point of the OP.
Which was about how we see the evidence and human history and the different worldviews where one is more orthodox and strictly by the rule book of material science and the other open to more transcedent knowledge. For which the orthodox and material worldview thinks conspiracy.
That we are debating the idea of conspiracy as opposed to 'real science' is philosophical.
Yes and this can be exactly the same for those who claim to be siding with the evidence. Case in point, precision vases must be made by orthodox tools because thats whats in the records. Yet orthodox tools don't match the signatures. Oh thats right lets appeal to elbow grease which can mimick the evidence of machining.
But this itself is based on whether the works he usurped from 200 years ealier were in fact works 200 years earlier. I am saying the whole 'whoever has his name on it' is the creator of the work is questionable. Some works have 2 or 3 nsames on it.
The basic premise is that apart from the pyramids all the works of the old kindom are in the hardest stones. Or at least the great ones that stand out with precision and quality. The issue is the orthodoxy of who is attributed the works along with the tools. The tools even if Ramesses II commissioned them don't match the signatures.
But we see this signature prevelent in the old kingdom where it seems to originate and maybe even earlier. They are the originators. The point is we could just about appreciate that some of these works came much later when the tools improved such as steel and the wheel. But the highest of quality and precision is coming from the old kingdom and maybe earlier. At a time not expected due to the primitive tools and knowledge.
Well I am not saying everything, I don't know. But this does not deny the quality and precision of the old kingdom works. I showed the precision vases, boxes and pillars to within 1,000th of an inch perfection. With machine marks on them.
We should be going by the highest quality for the level of knowledge and tech and I think the old kingdom is unsurpassed in that sense.
I don't know with some specific examples. Its not as if there was one quality for the old kingdom. The great works seem a specialised area among other less quality works. Its interesting that most of these old works almost belong to one family in a relative short time of around 200 years.
All I know is we see some of the best in the old kingdom and that this same signature is seen in works attributed to later dynasties. But it doesn't really matter as even what is claimed as new kingdom works don't match the knowledge and tech in the orthodox records.
Easy, the old kingdom works mostly had no glyphs on them for whatever reason. But we can definitely see how the later glyphs are of a completely different signature to the work itself.
Why would a new kingdom pharaoh and especially Ramesses who bragged out his great works create such amazing precision and quality finish only to virtually scribble like a child all over it with crooked and unfinished lines. Why create a beautiful finish only to destroy the quality with a poorly finished cartouche.
I gave this example of what looks like childs scribble on precision made boxes at Saqqara. !00 ton precision and polished to perfection to within a 1,000th of an inch in all points of reference made in Diorite. Spoilt by some vandel chiseling what looks like a kid did it.
Why would a pharoah commission such perfection only to have it spoilt by crooked lines and poor quality work. More like a latter addition. There are only 3 of 10 or so boxes with scribble on them and this is how they are dated.
Or this rough and inferior cartouche from Ramesses II on a beautifully polished piece. See how even the creases and every knook and cranny is polished to perfection. Then along comes another pharoah who is suppose to have made it with the same tech and wrecks it.
This is a Hyksos Sphinx. As you can see the fine lines in the ribs and its polished to the point the Diorite shines which is hard to do. But notice the later inferior cartouche that has a completely different signature to the work itself. Like someone actually did use a primitive chisel. You would think this would have the same level of quality so as to not deminish the work itself if the creator was the same person.
Thats apart from the obvious stamps where a later pharoah has actually changed the previous glyphs into his own or even stamped a cartouche over existing works and spoiling it. See this reused obelisk has the glyphs verticle rather than how obelisk use horizontal glyphs. Ramesses is reusing an older work he found as a wall.
Another example where he stamps his cartouche right over the preexisting work. In this case covering a belt, knife and the fine engraved lines of the skirt. In fact this example has two pharoahs stamped on it.
The interesting thing is these granite statues are suppose to be of Ramesses. Why would he go to all that trouble to finely shape the belt, knife and pattern on the skirt to then destroy this with a cartouche over work that would have taken weeks to finely craft.
They usually reserve a space or don't do any work under the cartouche. This seems an obvious later addition over work that was already in existence and Ramesses has usurped it.
The other a blantant stamp across a larger work covering the original fine work. Always usurping the finest hard stone works. There are many of these examples and along with the signatures matching so well the old kingdom I don;t think we should be assuming the named stamped is the creator.
The other piece of evidence is that this is not just restricted to Egypt but seen all over the world. Its the accumulation of these out of place works that question the orthodoxy that its just the primitive tools in the records.
I could show you though I know you won't like it of many examples that are hard to explain with the traditional tools. Where what is claimed by pounding, splitting, copper sawing in no way resembles the signatures and in fact the signatures reflect advanced knowledge and tech.
This 8300–7500 cal. B.C obsidian bracelet which is around 10,000 years old has evidence of sophisticated turning. When the wheel was not even suppose to have been invented or had very simple applications. Let alone controlled machine like signatures.
Multi-scale tribological analysis of the technique of manufacture of an obsidian bracelet from Aşıklı Höyük (Aceramic Neolithic, Central Anatolia)
Discussion
Our study produced evidence for skilled work of the obsidian bracelet from Aşıklı Höyük. This evidence is:
* The choice of high quality obsidian
* The use of different movements and abrasive materials for making the bracelet
* The creation of a complex form and the control of symmetry during the shaping
* The near absence of manufacturing errors and the ability to deal with defects
I don't know. Maybe they found the secret lol. I don't think it was laziness of lack of knowledge or tech. If the later dynasties could create works to the high level of the old kingdom then they had the same knowledge and tech.
But the question is as with the examples and evidence of widspread inherentence and reusing of older works and that the new kingdom sites once had oldkingdom sites and works on them. Its a question mark for at least some of these works being older. If you say the new kingdom actually usurped middle kingdom works then its a contradiction that the knowledge disappeared.
I just don't know but I am not going to assume that certain works belong to certain times because of a stamp on them. When the works that are stamped contain all the signatures of the old kingdom as shown already.
I don't think so. I think given the examples and evidence shown so far its clear there are out of place works and questions marks on their age. But basically forgetting all the times and who did what.
The fact is the very best of works is seen very, very early and possibly even pre dynastic that is on par if not better than later works. In a time when it should be a less quality and precision gradually improving to a higher level. Except we are seeing the complete opposite in these old kingdom works.
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A conversation about unity.
- General Theology
- 1061 Replies
And the word "Apostle" means "sent", so Barnabas was an Apostle, Acts 13:2-3. Junia was outstanding among the Apostles, Romans 16:7.
Jesus was an Apostle, Hebrews 3:1.
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FBI and DEA taking down drug traffickers
- By Pommer
- News & Current Events (Articles Required)
- 12 Replies
DEA makes mass arrests in New Hampshire fentanyl and meth bust tied to Sinaloa cartel
DEA announced 27 arrests in Franklin, New Hampshire, after seizing fentanyl and meth tied to Lawrence, Massachusetts, with the supply traced back to Mexico’s Sinaloa cartel.www.foxnews.com
Feds intercept 1,300 barrels of meth precursor chemicals shipped from China to Mexico
Federal officials seized 697,000 pounds of methamphetamine precursor chemicals from China bound for Mexico's Sinaloa cartel in the largest bust of its kind.
FBI's Operation Box Cutter indicts 22 Chinese nationals and companies for fentanyl precursors
FBI seizes enough fentanyl to kill 70 million Americans in international operation targeting Chinese companies supplying deadly drug precursors.
I am glad that federal law enforcement has finally stepped up actions to take down and take out the flow of illegal drugs into the USA.
[Emphasis Pommer’s]middle linkie-poo said:
It’s 12 days early, but: avast, mateys, where might I get me letters of marque, so I can do a bit-o-pirating on the high seas!?
It’s still technically feasible that such could be employed, and even though this is an enumerated power of the Congress, if the (current) President has issued any, I’m sure that that august body would have zero qualms with it.
(One hopes that this was a “privateer”, which “confiscated” these chemicals, since, if it was done by United States Naval forces, could be construed as an open act of war…against China. We don’t know if the crews were allowed to continue living, or if ships were sunk, in this instance.)
Here’s the press release from Pirro’s office.
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Israel-Hamas Thread II
- By Benaiah468
- News & Current Events (Articles Required)
- 4869 Replies
Almost two years after Oct 7, sources in Gaza report the targeted killing of Mahmoud Afaneh, the Hamas terrorist who celebrated the murder of ten Jews on the phone in front of his parents, who cheered him on.
The report from Gaza sounds like a belated response to one of the most gruesome voices heard on Oct 7, 2023. At that time, Mahmoud Afaneh, a member of Hamas, called his parents from Kibbutz Mefalsim while the blood of his victims was still on his hands.
he yelled into the phone. His father and mother did not stop him; on the contrary, they cheered him on, shouting
over and over again. That moment revealed not only the barbarity of the individual, but also the ideological blindness of an entire family.
Now, several "Palestinian" channels are reporting that Afaneh was eliminated in Gaza on Saturday. There has been no official confirmation from Israel yet, but the news spread quickly on social media. If the report is confirmed, then one of the most brutal faces of the massacre has been put to an end.
The scene of that phone call is burned into Israel's collective memory. The conversation was later played back before the United Nations Security Council. Israel's then-Foreign Minister Eli Cohen described October 7 as
and compared Hamas' actions to the massacres carried out by the so-called Islamic State. Cohen warned that anyone who heard Afaneh's words would hear the true face of the hatred that had descended upon Israel on Oct 7.
Israel experienced a turning point whose consequences continue to shape the country to this day. The name Afaneh is emblematic of the perversion of violence that was staged not in the shadows, but with pride. The fact that he allowed his own parents to participate in the murders live is a testament to moral decay.
Almost two years later, reports from Gaza now announce his death. Whether it was a targeted strike or an internal settling of scores remains unclear. But the symbolic significance is obvious: the man who acted as executioner on Oct 7 and sold the murder of ten Jews as a personal triumph is himself no longer alive.
For the victims' families, this does not mean an end to their pain. There is no redress for what happened. But in a country still grappling with the trauma of that date, the news could be a moment of justice for some, not as a substitute, but as a painful but necessary signal: those who celebrate killing will ultimately be hunted down themselves.
The fact that Afaneh's parents did not stop him at the time, but instead encouraged him to kill, also highlights the deep-rooted culture of glorifying terror in parts of Palestinian society. Where parents feel pride instead of horror, the next generation of murderers grows up. Israel is not only fighting terrorists, but also an environment that morally legitimizes their crimes.
The report from Gaza sounds like a belated response to one of the most gruesome voices heard on Oct 7, 2023. At that time, Mahmoud Afaneh, a member of Hamas, called his parents from Kibbutz Mefalsim while the blood of his victims was still on his hands.
he yelled into the phone. His father and mother did not stop him; on the contrary, they cheered him on, shouting
over and over again. That moment revealed not only the barbarity of the individual, but also the ideological blindness of an entire family.
Now, several "Palestinian" channels are reporting that Afaneh was eliminated in Gaza on Saturday. There has been no official confirmation from Israel yet, but the news spread quickly on social media. If the report is confirmed, then one of the most brutal faces of the massacre has been put to an end.
The scene of that phone call is burned into Israel's collective memory. The conversation was later played back before the United Nations Security Council. Israel's then-Foreign Minister Eli Cohen described October 7 as
and compared Hamas' actions to the massacres carried out by the so-called Islamic State. Cohen warned that anyone who heard Afaneh's words would hear the true face of the hatred that had descended upon Israel on Oct 7.
Israel experienced a turning point whose consequences continue to shape the country to this day. The name Afaneh is emblematic of the perversion of violence that was staged not in the shadows, but with pride. The fact that he allowed his own parents to participate in the murders live is a testament to moral decay.
Almost two years later, reports from Gaza now announce his death. Whether it was a targeted strike or an internal settling of scores remains unclear. But the symbolic significance is obvious: the man who acted as executioner on Oct 7 and sold the murder of ten Jews as a personal triumph is himself no longer alive.
For the victims' families, this does not mean an end to their pain. There is no redress for what happened. But in a country still grappling with the trauma of that date, the news could be a moment of justice for some, not as a substitute, but as a painful but necessary signal: those who celebrate killing will ultimately be hunted down themselves.
The fact that Afaneh's parents did not stop him at the time, but instead encouraged him to kill, also highlights the deep-rooted culture of glorifying terror in parts of Palestinian society. Where parents feel pride instead of horror, the next generation of murderers grows up. Israel is not only fighting terrorists, but also an environment that morally legitimizes their crimes.
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Must Christians be kind to animals?
- By Bob Crowley
- General Theology
- 10 Replies
There is no blanket command about kindness to animals but it is certainly implied.
billygraham.org
Most of the specific verses in the Bible relate to how we treat domestic animals particularly farm animals - oxen, donkeys and the like.
But the general tenor of the Bible is that animals are God's creatures as much as we are, and we should treat them with respect.
St. Francis of Assisi used to talk to the birds and animals, and told the villagers to feed the wolf of Gubbio. Some say it is legendary, and yet the wolf is supposedly buried within a church.
www.ilikegubbio.com
Mind you the Jewish sacrificial system which required the slaughter of animals raises questions in my mind, but I assume the killing was swift. I also understand the sacrificial animals were eaten, which makes the slaughter comparable to our modern abattoirs. Of course we suburban types get our meat wrapped in paper or plastic and don't have to do the unpleasant stuff.
When I pass semi-trailers carrying loads of chickens, cows or pigs I feel some sympathy. Around our way they'd be heading to the slaughterhouse.
I know they haven't got long to live but I'd be hypocritical to condemn the abattoirs as I eat meat as much as the next bloke.
Still I try to treat animals with respect and kindness if they happen to be within my location.
Does the Bible say anything about how we should treat animals? God mad
“My pets mean a lot to me, and I hate to see people neglect animals or treat them cruelly. Does the Bible say anything about how we should treat anima
Most of the specific verses in the Bible relate to how we treat domestic animals particularly farm animals - oxen, donkeys and the like.
But the general tenor of the Bible is that animals are God's creatures as much as we are, and we should treat them with respect.
St. Francis of Assisi used to talk to the birds and animals, and told the villagers to feed the wolf of Gubbio. Some say it is legendary, and yet the wolf is supposedly buried within a church.
Saint Francis and the Wolf - iLike Gubbio
Saint Francisand the Wolf chiesa della Vittorina chiesa di San Francesco della Pace Brother WolfThe famous story of the taming of the wolf is found in the “Little Flowers of Saint Francis” (“Fioretti di San
www.ilikegubbio.com
Mind you the Jewish sacrificial system which required the slaughter of animals raises questions in my mind, but I assume the killing was swift. I also understand the sacrificial animals were eaten, which makes the slaughter comparable to our modern abattoirs. Of course we suburban types get our meat wrapped in paper or plastic and don't have to do the unpleasant stuff.
When I pass semi-trailers carrying loads of chickens, cows or pigs I feel some sympathy. Around our way they'd be heading to the slaughterhouse.
I know they haven't got long to live but I'd be hypocritical to condemn the abattoirs as I eat meat as much as the next bloke.
Still I try to treat animals with respect and kindness if they happen to be within my location.
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