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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

God is the source of human rights, not government

I’m not doubting the article and thanks for stating your intentions. I frequently see people here blame God for hard to explain verses and actions that they don’t agree with. Sort of a presentism.

My point was that historically there was slavery in antiquity primarily for the losers of wars. The victor would enslave the losers. The difference between Jews and the unbelievers was the commands of God via the law and scripture to treat the slaves fairly.
Correct as far as treatment.
And I suspect that there were many decent slave owners in American history.
God is faultless.
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The Desperate Mullahs of Iran

I have been asked why I said that Hamas was forced to ceasefire by their Islamic neighbors. It was Egypt and Qatar mainly; who brokered the agreement.
But Hamas lives and dies by the Islamic code of Victory or Death. They cannot concede defeat to the Infidel USA or Israel. So this ceasefire is just another temporary halt to their aim of taking over the entire land of Israel.
They simply make this latest deal to be a victory and the returning Palestinians wave the V sign, as they travel back to Gaza City.
I agree. It is a similar mentality that possessed the Japanese Empire during the 1930s and 1940s as it engaged in its mad attempt to conquer not only China and other Far Eastern countries, but even the United States of America. The divine Emperor was the very son of God who was believed to be utterly invincible. Likewise, Islamic rhetoric has always insisted on Islamic worldwide hegemony and, specifically, the extermination of the Jews along with other infidels. This cease fire is merely a long-needed time out in the battle for Hamas to regroup and reorganize.
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God is the source of human rights, not government

There is no accusation. The 'old testamemt is God and His relationship with men. I do not accuse God.
Nor did I accuse you as you for some reason saw fit.
God, I've found, is perfectly capable of defending Himself.

Read the entire article and check the scriptures. Let God speak for Himself.
If you can find adequate evidence to in disputably prove your view. Lemme know. I'm not interested in going back and forth with some emotional verbiage without scripture.
And since you did not challenge the death penalty for kidnap and sale being specific to those offenses...
I’m not doubting the article and thanks for stating your intentions. I frequently see people here blame God for hard to explain verses and actions that they don’t agree with. Sort of a presentism.

My point was that historically there was slavery in antiquity primarily for the losers of wars. The victor would enslave the losers. The difference between Jews and the unbelievers was the commands of God via the law and scripture to treat the slaves fairly.
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Speaker Johnson describes planned No Kings rally as ‘hate America,’ ‘pro-Hamas’ gathering

Edifying, perhaps very edifying, but so what? How is this germane to the OP:
It addresses the issue he spoke of.
The upcoming no kings event and the players who seek disruption.
As I stated previously. It is unfortunate that he obstensibly included honest men and women in with the trash.
It is very much on topic. It is the topic. His statement.
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Evolution conflict and division

Think about what you just wrote

The Periodic table is not made up. The elements have grown since I was in High School - as we "discovered" new elements. None of the elements are "made up"

Science discovers.
And by the same token, evolving populations were discovered.
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Evolution conflict and division

That's the scientific process. You see something, you "make up" a hypothesis to explain it, then you collect data (via experiments, field work, etc.) to see if your hypothesis is accurate.
Think about what you just wrote

The Periodic table is not made up. The elements have grown since I was in High School - as we "discovered" new elements. None of the elements are "made up"

Science discovers.
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God is the source of human rights, not government

You are quick to accuse the OT of promoting the same racial type slavery that we’ve had in recent times but very slow to post the laws requiring proper care of slaves and the release of slaves after a certain time, usually six years for Jew slaves. But, as you said, your mind is made up to “your” interpretation.
There is no accusation. The 'old testamemt is God and His relationship with men. I do not accuse God.
Nor did I accuse you as you for some reason saw fit.
God, I've found, is perfectly capable of defending Himself.

Read the entire article and check the scriptures. Let God speak for Himself.
If you can find adequate evidence to in disputably prove your view. Lemme know. I'm not interested in going back and forth with some emotional verbiage without scripture.
And since you did not challenge the death penalty for kidnap and sale being specific to those offenses...
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Who then can be saved?

I'm not the Judge, God told us what He will judge us by James 2:11-12 Ecc 12:13-14 Rev 11:18-19 Mat 5:19-30 Rev 22:14-15, why His Ten Commandments is under His mercy seat. Exo 25:21 in heaven Rev 15:5 Rev 11:19

Jesus never told us to follow the popular crowd. He said most would through

Mat 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 [c]Because narrow is the gate and [d]difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
So no post crucifixion verse that requires the Christian to keep the 4th commandment. You have an unsupported and unbiblical theology. You verse mining does not help you.

I’m going to give you another chance. Please post a post resurrection verse that requires the Christian to keep the 4th commandment. You promote sabbath keeping even in your own screen name so you must have at least one post resurrection verse.
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Should Trump have been banned from running for president?

It is funny reading these hand-wringing posts.
You do not seem to understand that most people do not believe all these accusations. They believe Trump more than they believe the MSM and the DNC.
They do not believe there was an actual insurrection on Jan 6. They see it as a joke. They think many of these prosecutions are bogus efforts by Democrats and lawfare. They have failed and rightly so. They see the left as desperate to the point of violence and assassinations. That is the perception of the left.
They see that the left has been incessant in their prosecution and persecution of Trump for over a decade. They see these efforts as desperation. Americans simply do not believe them anymore. Conservatives think they would do the same thing to all conservatives. They see the left as delusional and almost cultish in their anti-Trump beliefs and actions. At this point, all these accusations sound silly, and people are deaf to them.
Denying Trump's candidacy would be a an attack on Democracy, much like when they removed Biden from their own ticket and installed a candidate who did not receive a single vote in the primaries. But if that is the only way they can win, they will continue doing the same. Every single thing they are accusing the right and Trump of doing, they are doing themselves. Classic projection. We are happily looking forward to the complete failure of the attempt to retake the house next year. I think the republicans may even achieve the bulletproof super majority in Congress. And yet the left refuses to pull back the reins on the extreme left of their party, and instead continues to double down and get more extreme. So sad. A once great party is crumbling before our eyes, and they are putting all their hopes on lawfare, district court judges, name-calling, and bogus accusations. Just pure delusion. At this point, they are losing at every point. They are on the wrong side of every issue and have zero positive issues. It is all "orange man bad." You will not win with that. But don't let anyone discourage you from that approach! It will make it better for the conservatives, the patriots, families, faith, and, of course, Making America Great Again! You are cutting off your face to spite your nose.
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Jordan says ICE agents ‘doing the Lord’s work’

Not sure if Jordan is a good interpreter of what the Lord's work is. Did he not shield a predator-coach at an Ohio University?
That seems like something one could’ve learned in church. So, I guess it tracks.
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Pepper Sprayed While Evangelizing

To refer to peoples reactions to Jesus (remember it was the Scribes and Pharisees who approached Christ to try and test him) is a rationalisation here.
I am not talking about the Scribes or Pharisees. I am talking about the world. He said, "The world .... hates me because I testify that its works are evil." John 7:7. So, if someone reacts badly because you are pointing out their sin, then remember that Jesus did the same, and the world hated Him too.
Sorry you need to build a connection with people, not ambush them. Leave it to other christian students on the campus to witness in word and deed and pray for them.
Jesus said, 'Go and preach the Gospel to all creation". He did not say, "Go and make a connection and then preach the Gospel to all creation."
I go into the parks and share the Gospel to total strangers and it only takes me 1 minute to make that connection so that I can get to a place where I can share the Gospel.
Sadly, too many Christians have made it a doctrine that we need to make a strong connection first. This then limits the amount we can share the Gospel.
You have to have the green light from the Holy Ghost to approach people.
Yes. Those of us who are filled with the Holy Spirit already have the green light to preach the Gospel to as many people as possible (Mark 16:15). The Holy Spirit was given not so that we would be quiet, but so that we would speak (Acts 1:8). Many times, in the bible we see time and time again, those who are filled with the Spirit spoke and they did not hold back.

"Often individuals will say, “I am willing to go, should God call me to go, in the meantime, I am going to stay.” What we need to do is go, but be willing to stay if God calls us to stay. God has already called us to go." Mark Spence

I find it strange that believers who are filled with the Holy Spirit keep so quiet about the wonderful sacrifice their saviour has made.
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Great Music from the 70's

Those Mexican stations would've been AMs that didn't power down at night.
Yeah I remember coming of age during the transition from AM dominated pop radio to FM.. album rock. I grew up on the plateau in Tennessee but at night I listened to WLS Chicago until KZ106 launched in Chattanooga.
This is slightly past the '70's, but it's on topic. :)

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What is Calvinism and its beliefs?

“We can only say that the grace of God is so clear and decisive in Jesus Christ that it is not our task to set limits to it.”

- Karl Barth

Where in scripture does it state that God's desire is thwarted by mankind?
Universalism can only be discussed in the Controversial Christian Theology forum.
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Evolution conflict and division

Making something up - and then finding evidence that may support it - is not Discovery
That's the scientific process. You see something, you "make up" a hypothesis to explain it, then you collect data (via experiments, field work, etc.) to see if your hypothesis is accurate.

Macro Evolution is not something we discovered...we made it up - and then looked for evidence to support it.

We are still looking for evidence to support it.
That's just wrong. Microevolution is evolution within a species and macroevolution is the evolution of new species. Both have been and continue to be directly observed and studied.

I don't understand how anyone who is a Christian and belives in the Bible could even consider Evolution based on the fact they we have the truth in the Bible - an amazing account of how this all became - Creation.
Because I cannot tie my faith to denial of the reality of God's creation. I don't know why God would create a world where we see evolution happening all the time and then expect us to deny it.
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Bill Gates launches micro-patch implants to serve as "vaccination passport" for entry into public and commercial buildings

I never thought I'd live to see the day when this prophesy from Revelation would come. The whole world is fulfilling all that the Lord warned us of. All of it. Friends, it will get much much uglier, before all is finished. The Lord has shown and given so much of Holy Truth! and Beauty! And Glory! Yet so many men, and women, seek only to satisfy the lusts of the flesh, and the lusts of the eyes, and the boasting pride of life, insulting and desecrating and blaspheming all that is Holy. Friends, we ought not waste our remaining days with trivia and presumption: we, and the world, owe God so much....
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Who then can be saved?

I John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He (God) who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

God never plucked out the 4th commandment the way man did.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” [g]says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
So I take that as a yes. According to your belief, ALL professed Christians that worship on Sunday instead of Saturday are living in sin and could go to hell. Got it. There goes most of Christianity.

Second question. Can you provide a verse post crucifixion in the new covenant that requires the Christian to keep the 4th commandment?
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Evolution conflict and division

You really believe that? You really think biologists across the world just made it up, with absolutely no evidence at all? Do you believe all of us biologists for the last 100 years or so are too stupid to notice?
ahhh...yeah thats what it is...is all made up.
Making something up - and then finding evidence that may support it - is not Discovery

Discovering something is much different.

Macro Evolution is not something we discovered...we made it up - and then looked for evidence to support it.

We are still looking for evidence to support it.

That is not science.
It's fine if you don't want to believe it because it conflicts with how you read scripture, but I don't understand why you feel the need to accuse countless people, many of whom are Christians, of what would have to be history's biggest fraud and conspiracy.
I don't understand how anyone who is a Christian and belives in the Bible could even consider Evolution based on the fact they we have the truth in the Bible - an amazing account of how this all became - Creation.
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God is the source of human rights, not government

That verse refers to kidnapping and trafficing.
I've heard the water it down argument before.
God's primary concern is with sould not bodies.

SLAVE, SLAVERY (עֶ֫בֶד֒, H6269, δοῦλος, slave, servant). The ownership of one man by another man so that the former was viewed in most respects as property rather than as a person. It was a deeply rooted part of the economy and social structure of the ancient Near E and of the Graeco-Rom. world.

Outline

I. Slavery in the OT


Slavery was a widespread practice in the ancient E during OT times. However, the number of slaves in Israel prob. did not run as high as in classical times. In Israel it was cheaper to hire laborers for work than to keep slaves. The use of slaves seems to have been largely confined to household duties and to work in the field alongside the master and his family.
War captives. The earliest means for the acquisition of slaves in the Near E was by military conquest. Thousands of men, women, and children were thus reduced to servitude. To the ancients this was considered a humanitarian improvement on the earlier practice of killing all of the enemy (Num 31:7-35; Deut 20:10-18; 1 Kings 20:39; 2 Chron 28:8-15). The Near Eastern codes and the OT law sought to limit the excesses of brutal punishment which captives received. The Heb. was told that, if a soldier sees a beautiful woman among the captives and marries her, he must treat her thereafter as a free person (Deut 21:10-14). He was not permitted to sell her into slavery after he ceased to delight in her. The Hebrews were subject to enslavement after capture in war at the hands of countless adversaries. The Phoenicians, Philistines, Syrians, Egyptians, and Romans held them in bondage in great numbers.

2. Purchase. The OT provided that foreigners could be bought and sold as slaves and considered as property (Lev 25:44-46). There are infrequent references to foreign slaves who were imported into Pal. (1 Chron 2:34f.). Hebrews were also sold into slavery in other lands; hence the death penalty was prescribed for those who kidnapped and sold a freeborn person (Exod 21:16; Deut 24:7). The OT cites examples of a father selling his daughter (Exod 21:7; Neh 5:5); a widow selling her children to pay her husband’s debt (2 Kings 4:1); and men and women selling themselves (Lev 25:39, 47; Deut 15:12-17).

Purchase. The OT provided that foreigners could be bought and sold as slaves and considered as property (Lev 25:44-46). There are infrequent references to foreign slaves who were imported into Pal. (1 Chron 2:34f.). Hebrews were also sold into slavery in other lands; hence the death penalty was prescribed for those who kidnapped and sold a freeborn person (Exod 21:16; Deut 24:7). The OT cites examples of a father selling his daughter (Exod 21:7; Neh 5:5); a widow selling her children to pay her husband’s debt (2 Kings 4:1); and men and women selling themselves (Lev 25:39, 47; Deut 15:12-17).

The price of slaves varied widely. Thirty shekels was the price according to Exodus 21:32. A scale of from three to fifty shekels is given in Leviticus 27:3-7, according to the age and sex of the slave. An appeal could be made to a priest when there was disagreement on price (v. 8). Twenty shekels was the price for a young man (v. 5)—the price paid for Joseph (Gen 37:28). The average price for a slave was forty shekels (2 Macc 8:11). A ransom of one talent for a captive (1 Kings 20:39) must indicate that he was an individual of great importance.

Children were sold into slavery under terms of a conditional contract. More frequently this was true of young, unmarried girls. Exodus 21 stipulates that if a man sells his daughter, she must become the wife or concubine of her master or of one of his sons when she reaches maturity. If no male member of the family takes her as a wife she is to be set free without any payment of money from her (v. 11). This condition was put in the contract because young girls were frequently purchased with the intention of making prostitutes of them when they reached maturity.

There are many scriptures here:
You are quick to accuse the OT of promoting the same racial type slavery that we’ve had in recent times but very slow to post the laws requiring proper care of slaves and the release of slaves after a certain time, usually six years for Jew slaves. But, as you said, your mind is made up to “your” interpretation.
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Why do people hate ICE...

When they are just doing their job?

Well it seems I come across examples of this everyday...just crossed another one.

WATCH: ICE Sued After Videos Capture Pastor Shot With ‘Chemical Pellets’ at Peaceful Protest

I bet that pastor was attacking them or someth....
https://www.reddit.com/r/illinois/s/09n0juVcj3


If there are people having trouble understanding why people dislike how iCE is doing their work, I'm hoping folks will be willing to share some examples. I'll do my bit when I can.

I suspect some of the antipathy towards ICE is the shock of actual enforcement of immigration law by ICE, especially in cities where for many years or decades ICE enforcement was so negligible as to be invisible and unheard of in those cities.

Indeed, LA County Mayor said ICE “was not present” and “was not present for so long.” They simply were accustomed to minimal to invisible existence of ICE for a long time.
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