Hvizsgyak said:

What if these false Jesus' arrive the same way Jesus said He would return?

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I believe Satan and his will try and mimic the return of Christ in some way. That's why Paul states one must have the full gospel armor on and in place to fight the wiles of the devil. Whoever is here during that time must be able to stand during that "evil day". Christ tells us he comes at an hour most do not expect. That's why knowing the timing is so important. We don't know the day or hour but Christ lays out the signs and Paul is another witness to what must happen before our gathering back together.

And in 1st Thes we are told people will be stating peace and safety and then bam, destruction, the true Christ returns. We have to be on watch and not fall away to the fake. And we have to heed the warnings by both Christ and Paul on not to be deceived by any means. There's a reason the foolish virgins don't make it even though they were waiting and there's a reason that Christ turns people away that stated they did things in his name. So we have to be careful and know the fake comes first. It's very important. Apostasy and the man of sin will arrive first and proclaim to be God. And will show wonders that will have the entire world follow after him.

We have to stay on watch and when the real Christ returns there will be no doubt at all. And like some say, pinch yourself. If you're still in a physical body, Christ has not returned. In that twinkling of an eye, all are changed.

bling said:

The verse is not saying: "Believing in Jesus which comes from being born again", precedes the "faith/trust" needed for salvation.

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Do you mean the verse teaches the opposite order -- that faith precedes and causes being born of God? If so, what do you do with γεγέννηται? Why prefer a causal reading over the present-participle + prefect construction I outlined?

I have more to say on your other comments, but I'll refrain from now as I don't want the discussion to become unfocused. Let's start with the grammatical point I raised.

Richard T said:

Wondering if Trump only loves certain Americans? That if you oppose him he wants to purge you to the fullest extent of his powers. Here he shows that he opposes free speech.

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He made this clear in his first term and is going all out to enforce it in his second. He is only President of those who support him and all other can go to…

Chesterton said:

Some demolition to the compound, duh. Reading comprehension is not rocket science.

Do you live with this hatred in your heart 24/7/365, or do you just have bad days sometimes?

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I don't like it when people lie. I understand that politicians 'avoid the truth' sometimes. And tend to bend it a little on ocassions. But Trump doesn't do that. And you know that as well as do. He treats us like morons. He lies as naturally as he breathes. He simply can't be trusted. Now if he was the guy who ran the local pub or someone in a local council position then I could care less. But he isn't, is he.

And you should care a lot more than youn seem to. I don't understand why you don't.

Hentenza said:

““For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be chaff; and the day that is coming will set them ablaze,” says the Lord of armies, “so that it will leave them neither root nor branches.”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭4‬:‭1‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

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Hentenza said:

Setting ablaze does not specify fully consumed.

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You must be joking. Even your translation spells it out. Setting ablaze and let's continue -"so that it will leave them neither root or branches. There's nothing left. Do you really have to have it spelled out for you? They will be resorted to nothing but ashes. That's what a fire does.

We are told time and time again, it's life or death. And this verse tells us without a doubt it's death. It's not life. Both body and soul destroyed in hell. That's eternal punishment, that's eternal destruction. That's the second death. There's not two books of life, one for heaven and one for hell. There's one book of life.

Hentenza said:

“And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭12‬:‭2‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

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Again, I only see one side getting everlasting life in that verse.

Hentenza said:

pre Moses verse that shows that people before Moses kept the Jewish sabbath

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Genesis 2:2-3:

"And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made."

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Exodus 16:29 This was BEFORE mt sinai

"See, for that the Lord hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day. So the people rested on the seventh day."

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------

Hentenza said:

post crucifixion verse that requires the Christian to keep the 4th commandment

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John 14:15

“If you love Me, keep My commandments."

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Jesus Didn't abolish the sabbath.
Mark 2:27-28

“The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

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How can Jesus be Lord of the Sabbath if we aren't supposed to follow it anymore? Or why would God abolish it when it was made FOR us. So because it was a command to keep the Sabbath holy, that command then would never cease. It was around before Moses and the 10 commandments and Jesus is still Lord of the Sabbath today and as he said, if you love him... keep his commandments.

PloverWing said:

So Christians disagree about which actions and which categories of people are sinful, and the moderators have asked us not to have this particular fight in their building.

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I understand this. But I thought that was about the fine detail that was not about actual sin. If a church claims to be Christian and then has devil worship are we not allowed to say its wrong because they claim to be a Christian denomination lol.

Paul called out the sin in the church. Its more or less denying Christs truth in the church and cultivating a climate where sin can thrive lol. I appreciate that in a world that has become relative that we have to be open to all views.

But then even the title that one Christian group is blasting another for defiance of the bible seems to invite debate on disputing certain Christian denominations within Christianity and the church. But anyway.

PloverWing said:

If I ever make it to Australia, maybe we can go out for coffee and have a chat.

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Yes of course. I live in sunny Queensland. You will love it. Not far well is far even though the Barrier Reef and Kakadu are within Queensland. Its still a 1,000 ks away lol. But we have beautiful coasts all the way up.

Even my hometown of Redcliffe which is about 30k from Brisband city is on the coast with an island on its doorstep which is virtually uninhabited. It would take 45 minutes by barge or 20 with a decent boat and its like you are in the wilderness far, far away from everything.

FYI the island is called Morton Island. This is a sand Island from sandstone washed from ancient cliffs just north of Sydney. The sand travels up the coast and formed sand Islands. Stradbroke Nth and Sth are the first formed then Morton, Then Bribie up the coast and then Frazer Island which is world famous with the dingos and ancient rainforests.

Then the sand forms a waterfall of sand that is despersed into the ocean. Then you start to get the beginning of the Great Barrier reef which travels up along the coast towards the top. But above that the top point of Qld is virtually wilderness, nothing but rainforests and bushlands. Oh and the Islands go all the way up and get more tropical. Thats where all the famous resorts are.

Have I sold you lol. I forgot, we are the world capital for the coffee shop set lol. We love our coffee shops.

Bradskii said:

9 things to know about the $250 million ballroom Trump is adding to the White House

The 90,000-square-foot ballroom will dwarf the main White House itself, at nearly double the size, and Trump says it will accommodate 999 people.

www.pbs.org

'The White House said some demolition was needed because the East Wing, the traditional home for the first lady and her staff, is being modernized as part of the ballroom project.'

Let's face it. That's complete bulldust. How does 'some demolition' and 'being modernized as part of the ballroom project' equate to 'totally demolish'?

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Some demolition to the compound, duh. Reading comprehension is not rocket science.

Bradskii said:

He lied.

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Do you live with this hatred in your heart 24/7/365, or do you just have bad days sometimes?

bèlla said:

Elitists tend to associate only with people who share their status, interests, or background.

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By that definition, the vast majority of people are elitists.

ViaCrucis said:

Were you hoping to find a bunch of leftists wanting to defend Hamas? Sorry to disappoint.

We actually believe in human dignity. Unlike Hamas, Israel, or MAGA.

-CryptoLutheran

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I guess humans dignity does not include those being dragged into the street and shot in the back of the head in full view of the public by Hamas, right? I am yet to see one of your posts condemning them.

Chesterton said:

Try reading all of what I posted. The initial press release about this in July said they were going to REPLACE the east wing. Do you not know what REPLACE means?

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'The White House said some demolition was needed because the East Wing, the traditional home for the first lady and her staff, is being modernized as part of the ballroom project.'

Let's face it. That's complete bulldust. How does 'some demolition' and 'being modernized as part of the ballroom project' equate to 'totally demolish'?

He lied.

Dikaioumenoi said:

1 John 5:1a reads:

πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων ὅτι Ἰησοῦς ἐστὶν ὁ Χριστός, ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ γεγέννηται
("Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God")

A few grammatical observations:

First, ὁ πιστεύων is a present active participle functioning substantively: "the one who is believing." The participle presents the subject, and describes a present, ongoing activity rather than a completed act of faith.

Second, γεγέννηται, the main verb of the clause, is a perfect passive indicative: "has been begotten" or "has been born [of God]." The perfect tense is more than just a "past" tense. Its aspectual function specifically points to a completed action in the past whose effects continue into the present.

When the two forms are set in relation to each other, especially with the present participle functioning substantively -- that is, as the subject of the main verb -- the natural sense is that the person who now believes does so as one who has already been born of God. The grammar, therefore, suggests a logical ordering in which the new birth precedes the act of believing.

This does not, of course, deny the simultaneous experience of these realities in human perception, but grammatically the text places regeneration as the root (the logical grounds) and believing as its fruit.

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You quoted: "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God"
The verse is not saying: "Believing in Jesus which comes from being born again", precedes the "faith/trust" needed for salvation.
If you could come believing in Jesus, you would have done something righteous, Holy, worthy, honorable and glorious, but the person coming can do none of that.
Believing in Jesus comes along with many huge gifts God showers on the believer (eternal live, Godly type Love, the indwelling Holy Spirit, fellowship, a Family and so on.
The "believer" comes like the prodigal son just turning from a hell bound life to maybe some kind of livable life, for the selfish (thus sinful) motive of wanting to live on even though he fully deserves to starve to death in a pigsty.
So, the faith/trust the sinner has is not yet in a glorious salvation, but the sinner has wimped out, given up on self and surrendered to his enemy. He trust and hopes in an undeserved Love.

Hans Blaster said:

It does work out to 71 in units of ly km/s, but it is still meaningless.

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There should be at least some sort of consistency in doing the calculations km (km/s) looks less ridiculous than ly (km/s).
(Nothing beats π²¹ however).

Where are all the Pro Palestinian protestors marching in the streets against the brutal executions in the streets of Palestinians.

Hyocrites. They are like the Pharisees. All virtual signaling on the outside but full of hate and corruption on the inside.

They only wanted to protest because they hate Isreal. Nothing about freeing Palestine. If they did they would be protesting and exposing the true threat which is Hamas. Protesting against Hamas. Thats the weird thing. Not one protest against the actualy evil of Hamas ever. Even before Oct 7th when Hamas was denying human rights. No one protest. Just deathly silence.

Jipsah said:

Well, no. You're seriously going to have to learn how these things work. He simply contrasted the positions of loving one's nighbot as opposed to torturing them forever. Diametric opposites.

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No it is an emotional fallacy that people that espouse heretical doctrine use to guilt others into believing it. God is just a horrible God if there is eternal punishment. Typical.

Jipsah said:

Sorry matey, but "Prove it ain't!" doesn't work. It's not contigent on anyone to prove that the earth isn't flat, or that whales don't speak French at the bottom of the sea. You have the burden of proving your salient points. Otherwise I'm going to require you to address me as "Your Majesty" until you can prove that I'm not Rightwise KIng of All England.

Not arguing the existence of hell, or at least I'm not. "Fear Him who can destroy both body and soul in hell". Try not to wander away.

And you clamor in favor of an invented version of eternal punishment that can't be supported by Scripture.

Really? How?

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Because the adversary deceives those that argue emotional fallacies. Nothing wrong with God’s plan unless you argue that His plan is insufficient or defective. The FACT of eternal punishment IS all over scripture.

Win the World Series, still get called a loser by the President of the USA.

Bro.T said:

Paul explains in (Gal. 3:1, 13, 16-17, 19, 24) (v.1) O FOOLISH Ga-la’-tians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (v.13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, CURSED IS EVERYONE THAT HANGETH ON A TREE: What law is this talking about? Let the bible speak for itself.

(v.16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of One, AND TO THY SEED, which is Christ. (v.17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

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There is no Jewish law during Abraham. The only law that God gave Abraham is that of circumcision. Abraham did not keep thevJewidh sabbath. In fact, no one kept the Jewish sabbath until Moses received the commandments is stone tablets. If you have a verse thst proves that the people before Moses kept the sabbath I sure would like to see it.

Bro.T said:

To sum up what going on here in Galatians, Paul is explaining that Christ came from Abraham seed, and remove the animal Sacrificial law. But in the days of Abraham that animal Sacrificial law never was on the table, and was not needed for Abraham to obey and have faith in God. But the Commandments was always on the table.

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This is nonesense. Did you notice what Paul says about the law bring a curse? It is Jesus bring hung in a tree that he vompsres it to. Jesus died in the cross (a tree). Abraham was saved APART from his works

“For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, the wages are not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭4‬:‭3‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Nothing here about Abraham keeping some invisible law that was not given until 430 years later.

Bro.T said:

Now pay attention,

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You pay attention.

Bro.T said:

the law that is being spoken of here came four hundred and thirty years after this covenant. But God’s holy commandments have been around forever even before man was created

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The 10 commandments were given to Israel at SanaI NOT before. If you have a verse that shows that the Jewish law including the 10 commandments were given before then I would love to see it.

Bro.T said:

. Remember that Satan was kicked out of heaven because iniquity (sin) was found in him. And what is sin? The transgression of the law (commandments). Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. (1John 3:4)

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God doesn’t say that but you interpretation does. Big difference. The Jewish law includes all 613 laws including the Ten Commandments.

Bro.T said:

(v.19) Wherefore then serveth the law? A question is being asked here. Then why should we serve this law? It was added because of transgression, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; the law that we are talking about here was added because of sin. But we now know that sin is the transgression of the law.

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“For if those who are of the Law are heirs, then faith is made void and the promise is nullified; for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭4‬:‭14‬-‭15‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Learn what Jesus sacrifice actually means.

Bro.T said:

How do you add a law if sin is the transgression of the law? Because there are two sets of laws, you have God’s holy commandments which abided forever, and you had the animal sacrificial law which was added because of sin, but it was only good until the seed should come to whom the promise was made, and that seed was Jesus.

(v.24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This animal sacrificial law was only a schoolmaster. (Paul breaks down more of this law in Hebrew 10th Chapter)

And this schoolmaster taught you that when you sinned in ignorance blood had to be shed (an animal sacrificed). But Christ being the ultimate sacrifice shed his precious blood once and for all, and by doing this putting an end to the animal sacrificial law.

Paul says in Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. So when you quoted all the places in the Bible that do away with this animal sacrificial law, not understanding that Paul talks about two sets of law. The Royal law (Ten Commandments) and the animal sacrificial law sometimes in the same verse you bring can bring destruction to yourself not knowing which law is which.

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Paul does not say what you interpret him to say, Paul states 5 chapters later:

“For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭2‬-‭4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Is Paul bi polar? Is he defending the law in one place and then calling it weak and not effective in another? As I state before your interpretation adds quite a bit of tension to scripture that does not need to be there which means that your interpretation has severe problems.

I asked you before to provide verses that proves that the Sabbath was kept before Moses and a post crucifixion verse that requires the Christian to keep the 4th commandment. I am surprised that after wasting so many words here you have not produced either one of the verses. You are condemning all Christians that do not worship on Saturday so it should be simple for you to provide the verses since they are of such importance.

Bradskii said:

So you think that to totally demolish a building is synonymous with 'fully modernise'. And a few people in these threads were adamant that the changes to the East Wing amounted to no more than knocking down a car port.

You were lied to. Yet again.

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Try reading all of what I posted. The initial press release about this in July said they were going to REPLACE the east wing. Do you not know what REPLACE means?

Chesterton said:

...the East Wing is being fully modernized as part of this process, and will be more beautiful than ever when it is complete!"

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So you think that to totally demolish a building is synonymous with 'fully modernise'. And a few people in these threads were adamant that the changes to the East Wing amounted to no more than knocking down a car port.

You were lied to. Yet again.

David Hine7 said:

My maths method gets the right anwers that egree with the measuered Ho values. Interesting and carries a strong message.

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David Hine7 said:

2 x oneMpc x C, divided by Pi to the power of 21 = 70.9449 k/s/Mpc

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Lets ignore the fact you got the units horribly wrong (yours are (k/s).Mpc instead of k/s/Mpc) and do a straight out calculation.

c = 3 x 10⁵ (km/s)
1 Mpc = 3.09 x 10¹⁹ (km)
π²¹ ≈ 2.8 x 10¹⁰

(2 x (1 Mpc) x c)/ π²¹ = [2 x (3.09 x 10¹⁹) x (3 x 10⁵)]/2.8 x 10¹⁰ = 6.62 x 10¹⁴.

Maybe in your world 6.62 x 10¹⁴ (= 662000000000000) is close enough to 70.9449 in the real world it isn't.

guevaraj said:

Sister, actually those two orders you mentioned are two different halves of the first day that God called by name as follows.

1. From morning to evening is the illuminated half of the first day God called "day," where God tells us what He did during the light.
2. From evening to morning is the dark half of the first day God called "night," where God has nothing to report because He does nothing during the nighttime half that ends each day of the creation week.

What has been missed is that the first day ends in the "night" half from evening to morning where God has nothing to report because He stops creation during the night after having created during the first half of light of each week day of creation. The first day is from first light to light again in the "morning" and subsequent days from morning to morning.

Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” And evening passed and MORNING came, marking the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NLT)​

The first day ends on a "morning" just as we are retold in the following passage.

The meat of the peace offering of thanksgiving must be eaten on the same day it is offered. None of it may be saved for the next morning. (Leviticus 7:15 NLT)​

The reason Judaism thinks differently since Joshua is because they misinterpreted the earlier Sabbath, given in Jerusalem, as a new seventh day of the week, when God had not changed the days of the week, since they were established from morning to the next morning, and it is the Sabbath that falls before the seventh day in Jerusalem. In other words, the Sabbath given by God in Jerusalem is not the seventh day of the week in Jerusalem, but half a day before, and Joshua misinterpreted this earlier Sabbath as a new seventh day of the week, when the Sabbath is separate from the seventh day of the week in Jerusalem.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

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If that's what you believe then fine, brother by the modern day teachings of what day and night stands for established by Romans. I and others disagree with your analogies concerning the Jewish Torah which the Old Testament is.

And I guess the Hebrews had it wrong because their Yome began at 6 pm. And I have supplied references to it and there is much more out there.
More:



Be blessed we've had a nice discussion I will not reply again, to do so will be repetitious.

NxNW said:

You need evidence that they pled guilty, after you posted that same fact?

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No, evidence for everything you said in post #211, which I've already asked you for twice and you've ignored me twice.

BCP1928 said:

Why haven't you done so already?

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I have. I cited Chris Dunn with 50 plus years experience including working in Aerospace prcision tooling. I linked Nick Sierra and Alex Dunn both experts in precision tooling at the Aerospace level. Christopher King of Precision Components an expert in precision tooling. Also Yousef Awyan an expert stone mason and Egyptologist who makes these vases at the foot of the pyramids and grew up among these ancient works.

But I have also cited articles that are not about precision vases and before this was an issue. Just ordinary archeologists on the history who refer to lathes or rotating devices that were needed to make these vases. I even cited skeptics on this thread who claim to be experts and agreed that some sort of lathing was required.

Ironically it seems its ok for those disagreeing to cite their own opinion without any qualification and evidence but when I cite actual qualified experts at NASA level they are whackos and don't count.

BCP1928 said:

Fact: you don't know for sure what they had.

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Thats a silly arguement. I could say you don't know. We could be forever dismissing stuff under that logic. We do know from what is current factual evidence that there was no lathe or wheel. It is cited as the consensus in archeology.

Some on this thread were just saying that because I can't show what created these signatures therefore its not evidence. They used the absense of any device as evidence that it did not exist. Now your using the exact same logic to say that non existent devices may have been available as evidence.