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No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

I don’t have any problem with the idea that “God makes the first move.” I think that is the predestination part of the process. I do think we have a choice to respond or not. That is the free will side of the process. God sometimes makes it difficult to refuse, and this might include being blinded and knocked down. In my own testimony, God lead in a hundred quiet and thoughtfully introspective ways, so I agree. When the way of salvation was presented to me, it seemed obvious. I have met people who heard God’s call to salvation and knew they would not hear the call again if they refused.
I have never heard what you described in your last sentence above. I don’t believe that to be true, though I guess it is possible they believed it. :scratch: But John 6 is clear that God has designated a people for Himself and gave them to Christ to be saved, to which Jesus said he will not lose one. I don’t believe you can refuse the gift of salvation because the work is already done and you are already a new person, but if you could (and again, I don’t know why anyone would want to), if you are one of the ones God has chosen to be His people, Christ would pursue you till He completes the will of the Father.
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No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

You’re sidestepping the point. You can’t use secular definitions to understand salvific principles.

I don’t disagree that God works in people’s lives in a quiet and thoughtfully introspective way (not everyone has a “road to Damascus” experience), but the point is that it is God who makes the first move in all cases, because our inability is total. Romans 3 is more than clear regarding the matter.
I don’t have any problem with the idea that “God makes the first move.” I think that is the predestination part of the process. I do think we have a choice to respond or not. That is the free will side of the process. God sometimes makes it difficult to refuse, and this might include being blinded and knocked down. In my own testimony, God lead in a hundred quiet and thoughtfully introspective ways, so I agree. When the way of salvation was presented to me, it seemed obvious. I have met people who heard God’s call to salvation and knew they would not hear the call again if they refused.
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Faith

In Romans 10:10 is the clause, "For with the heart man believeth unto (INTO in the Greek) righteousness" connected to verse s 6-8 where it states, Faith speaks on this wise, say not in our heart bring Christ down from above or up from the deep. But says, The Word is in our heart and in our mouth. That is the word of faith in which we preach.
And is this the faith that establishes the Law (3:31)and the faith that the Just live by? (1:17)
Ro 1:17 is in regard to "a righteousness from God. . .that is by faith;" i.e., the imputed righteousness of Christ (Ro 5:18-19, Php 3:9).

The sanctification of faith is through obedience in the Holy Spirit; obedience to the law of love of God and love of neighbor.
The salvation of faith is through faith alone.
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Evolution conflict and division

Are we talking about microevolution or macroevolution? I think people tend to get the two confused.

I agree with microevolution (Basically natural selection within a group) but don't agree with macroevolution (apes turning into humans or wolves turning into whales.) Or the idea that we came from nothing. That there is no creator.
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Mass Shooting at Annunciation Catholic Church/School in Minneapolis

Isn't saving a few lives is better than saving none? Also, many handguns used in mass shootings have high capacity magazines. Assault-style weapons and high-capacity magazines being banned would save many lives.
Banning all guns would save more lives. Banning high capacity magazines wont do it. You can change out a magazine in less than 2 seconds. Revolvers can be reloaded in 3.

Banning all guns is the only way to do it.
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I believe that ALL who ever lived will be in God’s Kingdom

It is an adverse spirit, not the persons (everyone) inhabited by it

Not every thought is your own
I was in a meeting one time (I was in my mid 20’s) with people who had mistaken me for a prophet, who were eager to hear what God was telling me … as we sat fellowshipping over the word I heard in my mind a thought go by me and could tell it was not aimed at me … after a little while and the meeting having ended, I asked this woman sitting across from me if she had a thought about not being able to have a child … she was astonished that I would know that … I simply replied it went by me to get to you, because that is what it felt like … the snare that is laid in vain in the sight of any bird is a thought … the thoughts that are earthly, sensual, devilish … this is what angels/children represent to me ... from one place ...

I had a dream three years after I accepted Jesus Christ as my personnel Lord and Savior that I awoke from sweating, huddled in the corner of my bed. In the dream I found myself in a small washed out gray cell in the corner of a bed in the twilight … the door had a small window in it, with three iron bars, from this window stared a beast whose face brought an uncontrolled horror over me … I could feel it’s hatred like a stifling presence pressing upon the room. The Lord said to me ... That was what was in you …
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The Word in the Heart's righteousness by the Faith

In Romans 10:10 is the clause, "For with the heart man believeth unto (INTO in the Greek) righteousness" connected to verse s 6-8 where it states, Faith speaks on this wise, say not in our heart bring Christ down from above or up from the deep. But says, The Word is in our heart and i, "n our mouth. That is the word of faith in which we preach.
And is this the faith that establishes the Law (3:31) and the faith that the Just live by? (1:17)
Ro 1:17 is in regard to "a righteousness from God. . .that is by faith;" i.e., the imputed righteousness of Christ (Ro 5:18-19, Php 3:9).

The sanctification of faith is through obedience in the Holy Spirit; obedience to the law of love of God and love of neighbor.
The salvation of faith is through faith alone.
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Community of Christ

No, it really doesn't mean anything to this specific forum because the Campbellite movement emerged from former Anglicans who associated very briefly early on with certain Presbyterians and Baptists and were not in any previous association with ............***cough***...............Mormonism.

Sidney Rigdon was a deviation and an emotionally confused idiot and shouldn't be seen as some larger inference about the Campbellite movement overall (which still to this day has nothing to do with Mormonism, in any shape or form. It never did. )

Did you catch this bit of historical fact, @RileyG ?
I understand everyone’s hatred for Mormonism, but Joseph Smith’s church wasn’t Mormonism as it became known after Brigham Young took it west. Prior to that it was a Trinitarian church (thanks to Sidney Rigdon) that also believed in the principle that God can still speak to us today. And I never suggested that there was a connection between the two churches except to point out that Sidney Rigdon shaped the beliefs of the church of Joseph Smith when it was in its infancy.
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F.B.I. Plans to Lower Recruiting Standards

If you note what was mentioned in the WaPo piece:

“We recognize the challenges and the obstacles that law enforcement agencies face in trying to diversify,” said Malik Aziz, the national chairman of the National Black Police Association. “But the pool of qualified candidates of color is there.”

“The FBI tends to look more at candidates who are not coming from traditional law enforcement — when we have an estimated 110,000 black police officers in the country,” Aziz said. “Instead of focusing recruitment on individuals who have completed college and are looking for jobs in the FBI, the FBI should look at the many police departments who have shown a great commitment to law enforcement,” he said.



Given that the majority of local PD LEOs don't have 4-year degrees, how else would one interpret that other than "If the Bureau is looking to diversify a little more, they should be considering the many existing LEOs instead of College graduates"?
I thought diversity was now anathema and grounds for dismissal in the current administration.
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Israel-Hamas Thread II

Israel is one of the few countries in the Middle East where Christians enjoy full civil rights, can practise their religion freely, hold high office and do not have to fear reprisals, at least not from the authorities. Reprisals and hostility do exist, but these often come from within their own ranks or from Muslim fellow citizens. Although the majority of Christian (68%) and Muslim (61%) Arabs consider themselves ‘Israelis’ and appreciate the freedom that life in Israel offers, Palestinian nationalism remains widespread.

Christian Arabs who live in areas with a Muslim majority must therefore be particularly careful not to become targets. If they keep their views to themselves, nothing will happen to them. But the more they identify as Israelis, the more uncomfortable it becomes for them. This is clearly illustrated by the example of Arab Christians who see themselves as part of the State of Israel in every respect and voluntarily perform military service. For their protection, the Israeli army has granted them special permission: normally, every soldier is required to travel to and from their respective army base in uniform. Christian Arab soldiers, however, are allowed to do so in civilian clothing in order to remain unrecognised among their own people.

Worldwide, the number of devout Christians who recognise G-d's intentions for Israel based on the Bible, who are saddened by the persecution of Jews throughout church history, and who stand up for Israel in prayer and practical support is growing. In addition, more and more Christians and non-Christians are seeing through the one-sided reporting of many media outlets, which all too often pillory Israel and conceal the glorification of violence, corruption, and human rights violations by the Palestinian leadership.

It is all the more surprising that church leaders in Jerusalem, (the city of the great King. Mt 5:35b), in particular, do not share this understanding, but are openly anti-Israeli. Clergy do not want to be accused of normalising relations with Israel or betrayal, nor do they want to put their members in the "Palestinian" territories in danger. Some therefore go on the offensive with anti-Israel statements.

But there is also another, deeper reason: it is the heresy, widespread since the early days of church history, that the Christian church has replaced Israel as G-d's chosen people. According to this replacement theology, which occurs in various forms and under different names (fulfilment theology, substitution theology), all the promises that G-d made explicitly to the Jewish people now apply to the church.

"Palestinian" church leaders have added a political component to the replacement theology prevalent among millions of Christians worldwide and preach a "Palestinian" liberation theology: According to this, Jesus, the Jewish carpenter's son from Nazareth and descendant of the greatest Jewish king, David, was not only a "Palestinian", but the first "Palestinian revolutionary leader." In this way, terrorist attacks against innocent Israeli civilians, for example, are considered legitimate acts against the oppressor. The pro-Palestinian churches are thus causing enormous damage.

A literal interpretation of the Bible, especially the five books of Moses, in which G-d repeatedly reaffirms his eternal covenant with Israel, is rejected. The Gospel is mixed with Palestinian nationalism and Jesus' Jewish identity is denied. The fact that Jesus taught his disciples peacefulness and repeatedly reminded them that His kingdom is not of this world (e.g. Mt 26:52; John 18:36) does not apply to the oppressed in their view.

Coupled with the absence of any critical examination of the Palestinian leadership's inhumane policies, this ideology suggests that Israel alone is to blame for the plight of Christians in the "Palestinian" territories. The fate of their fellow believers in other countries in the Middle East and the freedom of Christian Arab citizens of Israel are ignored.

In Feb 2019, the IDF promoted a Christian soldier to the rank of lieutenant-colonel, making him the first soldier of his faith to achieve that rank. His identity must remain confidential as he is being considered for a high-ranking/high-risk security position.

Lieutenant Colonel I., who hails from Nazareth, said
Oh look, the Israel “democracy card” and they care about Christians—lol. Never mind the land grabs from Christians using shady tax codes (Orthodox Church is largest private landowner in Israel) and other tactics, or the movement restrictions dressed up as “security.” Never mind the dehumanization of Christians at the border by the IDF. Just remember: facts don’t care about your feelings.

Imagine blindly supporting the anti-Christian modern Israel because you’ve been duped into a made up 19th century pre-trib dispensationalism eschatological heresy—crazy.

Israel as one giant example of breaking the first, second and third commandment. It’s a piece of blasphemy that is readily visible, with the increasing constriction and hostility towards Christians by first the various Zionist agencies and then by the modern state of Israel.
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Trump's Big Beautiful.....Gold Ballroom

He's keeping a close eye on the Rose Garden, too.

View attachment 369382
I used, at the White House, the most beautiful marble and stone available anywhere. Surfaces are very important to me as a Builder. As everyone knows, I built many GREAT Buildings, and other things, over the years. At the White House, I am very proud of the beautiful stonework we did in the Rose Garden, in this case, using limestone plus. The Rose Garden is completed, and far more beautiful than anyone ever had in mind when it was conceived of, decades ago. Three days ago, while admiring the stonework, I happened to notice a huge gash in the limestone that extended more than 25 yards long. It was deep and nasty! I started yelling, “Who did this, and I want to find out now!” — And I didn’t say this in a nice manner. I wondered, “Was it vandalism or, was it stupidity?” Lo and behold, because of the fact that we’ve installed the finest security equipment anywhere, they brought back the stupid people, with their boss watching (in sunglasses!). It was a subcontractor that was installing heavy landscaping on a steel cart that was broken and tilting badly, with it rubbing hard against the soft, beautiful stone. I love and respect great workers and contractors, but something like this should never happen. Now, I’ll replace the stone, charge the contractor, and never let that contractor work at the White House again — But, how great is the video equipment? We caught them, cold. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!
Maybe choosing soft, porous limestone for the big beautiful patio wasn’t a brilliant choice.
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Donald Trump approval falls to lowest point ever

Donald Trump's Net Approval Rating Falls to Lowest Point Ever​

Published Aug 28, 2025 at 11:31 AM EDT
View attachment 369383
Thanks for sharing but at this point it really does not matter. He is quickly changing our government to do his will with a Supreme Court to back him up.
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No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

I don’t agree that “only the worst of the worst people see their depravity.” The introspection may well be the leading of the Holy Spirit. It is even evident in Jung’s Id.
You’re sidestepping the point. You can’t use secular definitions to understand salvific principles.

I don’t disagree that God works in people’s lives in a quiet and thoughtfully introspective way (not everyone has a “road to Damascus” experience), but the point is that it is God who makes the first move in all cases, because our inability is total. Romans 3 is more than clear regarding the matter.
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Community of Christ

Don't refute me on this. The Statement of Purpose for this particular section lays out quite briefly but specifically the borders of this section---which is solely the movement begun by the Campbells, not by Joseph Smith. Mormonism has nothing to do with it.

Get that straight!
Got it, buddy! Here is the statement for this section - Disciples of Christ, Church of Christ, and Independent Christian Churches

There is no doubt whatsoever that this was intended for Campbellites only. It is terribly unfortunate that there are multitudes of "Independent Christian Churches" which have no affinity with the Campbelitte denominations.
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