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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

I hold a view similar to the Open View of God.

Regarding man being a free agent in regard to sin, I would say that an unsaved sinner is not free, but in bondage. Paul wrote to the Christians in Rome:

“But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.” (Ro 6:17 NKJV)

Yes, man is enlaved to sin, yet they can still "obey from the heart" the call to accept Christ, and His power over sin.
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I hold a view similar to the Open View of God.

These verses speak of God's wonderful plan of salvation:

A plan that picks and chooses, based upon no deed of man, is not only unscriptual, but is ceratinly not "wonderful".

Rather, this is the wonderful plan of God. That God extends HIs goodness out to all He has created.


For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. (NKJV, 1 Timothy 4:10)

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. (NKJV, 1John 2:2)

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, (NKJV, 1Timothy 2:3-6)

“3 ¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,” (Eph 1:3-5 NKJV)

To be chosen "In Christ", is not to say God picked and chose, individuals for salvation. But rather as "Christ was foreordained", we were a chosen people "In Him". As the gentile was previously not classed as chosen, so we were all chosen before creation. It was a part of God's plan.

1Pe 2:9-10 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.
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Blessed are the dead, those who die in the Lord from this moment on

Matthew 25 lays out the big picture.

Parable of the Talents: Avoid the harvests (nuclear wars.) Death by radiation looks a lot like hell.
Parable of Wise and Foolish Virgins: Don't be fooled by the fake Jesus (false prophet) and take the mark.

First the harvests come and then the mark. Christians killed for refusing the mark are blessed.

The rapture comes after almost every Christian on the planet has been killed by either the harvests or the mark. So the whole rapture thing maybe applies to a million people for the entire planet. Some relatively small number for sure.
How do you read nuclear warbin the parable of the talents and how do you read deceipt of a false messiahbin the parable of the virgins?

Btw, the two parables are in reversed order as you presented them...
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Is This The New Normal?

We already had the Office of the Inspectors General that was purged, (probably so that Musk could ferret out which of the fired Inspectors General was working for the “deep state”), to do continuous investigations and audits to minimize waste, fraud and abuse.

“Waste, fraud and abuse” are the “weapons-of-mass-destruction” of our time; they ain’t “there”, (in anywhere near the amounts that would have to be realized that would have a significant effect.

We do spend a lot and most of it is necessary and accounted for, “WF&A”?, a bogeyman made out of money.
Yeah, just like ”Trump is a threat to our democracy” was the weapon of mass destruction under Biden (literally, considering all the people who threatened to kill Trump (some almost did)), and we don’t even have a democracy. Meanwhile hiring 130,000 federal government workers to just add more wasteful expenditures to the list of stuff to have to get rid of. We have no need for the top-heavy, citizen-hating government that we have.
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MS-13 Gang Member Kilmar Abrego Garcia to be Deported to African Country of Eswatini

Look up the origin of the term “redskin”, (in referring to America’s indigenous peoples).
We are not a racist nation and there is nothing holding BIPOC people from succeeding.
I’m saying it shouldn’t matter where people are born. Or what they look like.
Fair enough. I agree.
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What is your theory, belief around Foreknowledge?

Choices are found all throughout scripture. They are real choices, not mock ones. Choices have consequences. Take the following example from Job, it states that based on the person's choice, they either bring for themselves spiritual life, or spiritual death:

Job 36:9-12 Then He tells them their work and their transgressions—That they have acted defiantly. He also opens their ear to instruction, And commands that they turn from iniquity. If they obey and serve Him, They shall spend their days in prosperity, And their years in pleasures. But if they do not obey, They shall perish by the sword, And they shall die without knowledge.

Jesus extends the offer of Salvation to all, but our willingness, or lack of it, are important.

Mat 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

Our choice or obedience is also important to receiving the Holy Spirit.

Joh 14:15-16 "If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—

Joh 14:22-24 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, "Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?" Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.

Note the order of receiving the Father's love (above) it comes only after we are obedient to God's word. There is an action we take in response to God's offer of salvation.
When God speaks of desiring that all would come to him and not wishing that any should die, those are scriptures showing the heart of God. That is a different thing from the plan of salvation that he put in place and elucidated in John 6.

The choices we make are not free as was Adam’s choice in the Garden of Eden because we have a fallen nature (thanks to Adam’s use of his free-will choice) and can only make choices from that fallen nature until the time comes when we are redeemed (and thus have a redeemed nature). Once we are redeemed and have the gift of the Holy Spirit to guide us, we can make free-will choices. While we are slaves to sin, we cannot make free-will choices. We can make choices, but they are not free-will. There are too many scriptures where this is made clear. Prior to being redeemed, men have evil thoughts all the time, we require a Savior.
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Trump to sign order renaming Pentagon 'Department of War': Sources

What should be changed is the Department of the Interior to the Department of the Exterior, since it's in charge of everything outdoors.
It’s better than the proposed name change it “Department of Hey Everybody, Look Over Here.”
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Trump to sign order renaming Pentagon 'Department of War': Sources

The formal renaming of the department would require Congress to act

We’re just going to do it. I’m sure Congress will go along if we need that. I don’t think we even need that,” Trump said last month.
Welcome to “Who’s Line is it Anyway?” where the rules are made up and the points don’t matter.
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The Left belittles prayer. Are they right?

By your words, the prayer of a leftist is like the Aesop fable of the man who prayed to Hercules about his broken wagon, and Hercules came and made the man fix it. It's the implication that prayer is only effective if we ourselves act to answer it. Meanwhile, I saw God keep me and my family safe when a hurricane went where it wasn't forecast, and there was absolutely nothing we could do with our own hands to accomplish that.

So, of course, the left screeches that "Oh, it's all these wicked guns that leap into hands and make people do terrible things." All these magic guns. Magic they must be, for it's the gun that's treated as the cause and not the wickedness in the heart of the one who uses them for evil. So it is that the "solution" is to prevent people from owning firearms and never once asking why someone thought it was proper to gun down their fellowman.

Here is the terrible truth: The cause behind these incidents is the spiritual condition of the heart of the one who does them. That being the case, someone so inclined will seek out any means of doing so. Not having one means does not preclude having another. The only thing that prevents that is to change the spiritual condition of the heart, and that is beyond the power of any man or woman or law. That can only come from God.

Odd that the one thing the Left doesn't want is a return to religious instruction in schools. Maybe I'm drawing a false correlation, but when we had such, these things didn't happen. But this, like prayer, isn't seen as a solution. You could put us all in prison-life hives where every aspect of our lives are regulated, and I guarantee someone would still shove a shive into someone's side, because none of that can change the heart.

Or perhaps the fear, deep down, is what God will do. The prayer "Your will be done" is a scary thing. When we invite God in, some things we might not want dealt with with be dealt with, if we're honest to Him.
This was a school that had religious instruction, and the gunman had ties to it. In fact, that is a pretty common theme in religious school shootings.

But hey, if you want religious instruction to return to schools, why not? Maybe people learning about the core tenants of Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Wicca/Paganism, and other religions will bring some perspective to people who lack worldviews outside of their own.
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The Left belittles prayer. Are they right?

Last week, the shooter in Minneapolis of little children in a Catholic church-school during mass was discovered to have written on one of his weapons, “Where is your god [sic].” He used a picture of Jesus on his target in practice before the big day of shooting last Wednesday.

And now the left says to us in effect: “Don’t pray, just prey.” The last part refers to allowing unfettered evil to flourish — to continue to prey on the weak and vulnerable.

As Gary Bauer noted last Thursday: “Satan wrote the script for the atrocities that transpired yesterday at a Minneapolis Catholic church and school. The transgender shooter’s message, ‘Where’s your God now,’ wasn’t referring to Allah. It was referring to the God of the Bible, the God Catholics, Jews, and Protestants worship. The only God, by the way. ‘Where’s your God now’ was Satan mocking God.”

It’s amazing to see how swift the condemnation from the Left was against even the idea of prayers — as if prayers alone were the solution offered to try and stop these things. They do hint at the solution: to get back to the knowledge of God, the one who is there and who will hold us all accountable one day.

As to the condemnation of prayer, consider these examples:

  • Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frei, who almost single-handedly destroyed his city in the wake of the George Floyd riots, spoke of prayer as if it were nothing. After all, the children in the church-school were literally playing when the bullets began to fly.

Continued below.
I have not heard a single person belittle prayer. None of these “examples” even show somebody mocking prayer. The closest I heard is people pointing out that if shootings were the result of lack of God in schools and these kids were literally praying, what’s the excuse going to be this time.

I’m absolutely positive that people mock prayer, but (especially with this story), it’s not even close to being widespread or standard. This is just one of the articles written to feed the “Liberals are what you should fear and hate” narrative so many use as a crutch for all things.
  • Agree
Reactions: john23237
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Fewer international tourists are visiting the U.S. — economic losses could be ‘staggering,’ researchers estimate

Polite people know when their presence isn’t welcome and stay away.

That sounds swell, we should try that maybe, once.
See what “happens”?
I don’t blame anybody for not coming. I barely want to be here right now myself.
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'Be filled with the Holy Spirit'

With wisdom we avoid the foolishness, which is around out there,
Understood! But, When you are committed to providing for a hungry family, you have to remain in the workforce amongst those very swine. And the type of witnessing I relied on in the dozens of shops I worked in came back with confirmation to me time and again, such as apologizing to me for speaking in course language, as though I should decide FOR THEM, what was considered wholesome logic. Again, most always in the same witnessing of 1 Peter 3:1. If after the Lord brings them to heel in this manner, I know they have responded to the light He gave. And this isn't the same as a child of God who ''walk in the council of the ungodly''. It is walking in patience and longsuffering of those many ''hairs of the head'' details He is capable of keeping track of concerning OUR heart and walk.
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MS-13 Gang Member Kilmar Abrego Garcia to be Deported to African Country of Eswatini

Hey, you remembered me :wave:.
I remembered the news article, but not the person who shared it. My memory is good enough to remember a lot of facts, but abysmal with name/conversation connection… As anybody here (and IRL) can attest to.
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Reactions: Hvizsgyak
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Emergency Appeal for Prayers and Support for Flood-Affected Christians in Pakistan

Thank you so much for your trust and for asking how to help. As a servant of God, I am already working on the ground with the affected Christian families here in Pakistan. Our community has been hit very hard by the floods, and sadly, the government and surrounding society often overlook us.
I want to be very clear and honest: we do need urgent support in food, clean water, clothes, and shelter, especially as winter is near. But I also want to respect the rules of this forum. That is why I am preparing a proper and transparent way through a Christian website where anyone who feels led by God can give safely and with confidence. I will share the details very soon.

In the meantime, your prayers and your faith in me as a brother in Christ mean a lot. If you feel led to support, please know your help will directly reach those who are in desperate need.

With gratitude in Christ,
Pastor Waris
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The Left belittles prayer. Are they right?

That is such a lie, and a flame to all the Left.

Most I know on the Left feel prayer is important, and thoughts - but it is not enough. It is like God is saying, "DO something and I will bless it." He expects us to act. We could enact common sense gun laws for example. We could make the gun owner legally liable for the actions of the one using it - such as the parents who don't adequately lock up their guns or the ones who give their troubled teen a gun. We could stop the sale of the part that turns a simpler gun into a repeater. (Can't think of the name).
By your words, the prayer of a leftist is like the Aesop fable of the man who prayed to Hercules about his broken wagon, and Hercules came and made the man fix it. It's the implication that prayer is only effective if we ourselves act to answer it. Meanwhile, I saw God keep me and my family safe when a hurricane went where it wasn't forecast, and there was absolutely nothing we could do with our own hands to accomplish that.

So, of course, the left screeches that "Oh, it's all these wicked guns that leap into hands and make people do terrible things." All these magic guns. Magic they must be, for it's the gun that's treated as the cause and not the wickedness in the heart of the one who uses them for evil. So it is that the "solution" is to prevent people from owning firearms and never once asking why someone thought it was proper to gun down their fellowman.

Here is the terrible truth: The cause behind these incidents is the spiritual condition of the heart of the one who does them. That being the case, someone so inclined will seek out any means of doing so. Not having one means does not preclude having another. The only thing that prevents that is to change the spiritual condition of the heart, and that is beyond the power of any man or woman or law. That can only come from God.

Odd that the one thing the Left doesn't want is a return to religious instruction in schools. Maybe I'm drawing a false correlation, but when we had such, these things didn't happen. But this, like prayer, isn't seen as a solution. You could put us all in prison-life hives where every aspect of our lives are regulated, and I guarantee someone would still shove a shive into someone's side, because none of that can change the heart.

Or perhaps the fear, deep down, is what God will do. The prayer "Your will be done" is a scary thing. When we invite God in, some things we might not want dealt with with be dealt with, if we're honest to Him.
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