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HARK! · Sep 10, 2025

Stopped_lurking said:
So where is those numbers for July then its not given in this link Another record-setting month at CBP: Border continues to be most secure in history

Here are some numbers from early March:

CBP Posts 95 Percent Decrease in Nationwide 'Got-Aways'

https://www.newsmax.com/us/ice-cbp-gotaways/2025/03/13/id/1202686/

I asked you for the August numbers first; but it's clear now that you misspoke.

SharonGN · Sep 10, 2025

Ted Cruz is a pre-mil dispensationalist and an example of how our particular interpretation of prophecy can affect the world. I listened to that Tucker podcast and Cruz does go on to say, as a politician, he doesn't make decisions based on his religious beliefs. But, one wonders how much he can disengagement himself from them when he makes political decisions? That he mentioned it at all in a political context is revealing.

I also was amused Tucker had never heard of that eschatological view. After Cruz said that, you could almost hear Tucker foaming at the mouth because he now had another angle he could use in his anti-Israel stance.

Speaking of the 70's (Firedragon76 mentioned), look back to Jimmy Carter:.
"Despite his reputation by some in the American Jewish community to the contrary, Carter was also a strong supporter of Israel, and made Middle East peace his top foreign policy priority. ::::::His support for the Jewish state flowed directly from his Baptist roots.::::: As he told me, ”I had a strong religious motivation to try to bring peace to what I call the Holy Land,” which he had first visited as Georgia governor in 1973. His first foreign visitor as president was Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin."

I worked for Jimmy Carter at the White House. He should be remembered as a champion of the Jewish people

I spent thousands of hours working closely with Carter. No American president has done more to advance the safety of world Jewry.

forward.com

concretecamper · Sep 10, 2025

Strong in Him said:
Paul tells us to offer our bodies as a true and living sacrifice - which is our spiritual worship, Romans 12:

Strong in Him said:
He does in the ESV

NIV

NLT

Amplified

Why didn't you consider other translations of Scripture before accusing me of adding to God's word?

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercy of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, pleasing unto God, your reasonable service.

First, the link you provided didn't say spiritual worship, you added it

Second, because I use a Traditional Bible, not ones you listed and are considered heretical by most since they add to/change the text (like you just did).

Translations you mention diminish the worship due to God.

NewLifeInChristJesus · Sep 10, 2025

Michie said:
I believe Calvinism is in error. I only posted this for those that are interested in the topic. I’m definitely not interested in getting into a fruitless debate.

I don't quite understand the purpose. There must be a million pages on the internet explaining Calvinism.

A New Dawn · Sep 10, 2025

bling said:
God defines what is sin and not sin and provides that knowledge to man. For Adam and Eve, it was not a sin to: lust, covet, avoid seeking wise council, Eve not helping Adam and really do or think anything other than physically eatting the fruit of the tree of knowledge. "Knowledge" of Good and Evil made all these sins without having make the world into a "fallen" world.

Firstly, lust wouldn’t have been a sin for Adam and Eve in the garden because there were no others to lust after. There was only one commandment given, so only one sin that could be performed.

Secondly, eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was a sin because God told them not to do it, so Adam sinned even before there was knowledge of good and evil.

Thirdly, why are you arguing against what the Bible reveals about the world being fallen? It is a clear belief for ALL of Christianity that when Adam fell, the world fell. There are scriptures in the OT as well as the NT that speak directly to this phenomenon. Why do you think a man needs to be saved if he isn’t fallen?

Stopped_lurking · Sep 10, 2025

HARK! said:
False

So where is those numbers for July then its not given in this link Another record-setting month at CBP: Border continues to be most secure in history

Delvianna · Sep 10, 2025

Amen!! And those who are His will take correction and strive to go against sin. They do not feel comfortable in it, but want to be out of it because what matters most is the Lord and not their comfort level. How many times did the ones who God called get beaten, thrown in jail, ship wrecked or even killed? God calls us to uncomfortable places to speak his truth so that when judgement comes, they cannot say they weren't told or weren't warned. Too many Christians have gotten comfortable and only a few are willing to say "Here I am Lord! Send me!"

HARK! · Sep 10, 2025

Stopped_lurking said:
The CBP can of course not give a number for those they failed to stop

False

Clare73 · Sep 10, 2025

RandyPNW said:
The name "Israel" identified the people we are talking about. Paul was using the name "Israel" to reflect upon their calling to be a faithful people.

So, when Israel failed to become a Christian nation, they were viewed as "untrue, or unfaithful, Israel." They did not stop being identified as "Israel." They stopped being who they were called to be.

Since they didn't stop being identified as Israel, the hope was that they would eventually live up to their name.

Let me be perfectly clear here. "Israel" refers to the *Jewish People,* and not to international Christianity. Their failure does not rob them of the name "Israel." Paul simply called them out for not living up to their name, indicating that they could be cut off from that group of people if they did not follow through and become a Christian nation.

In the Wilderness many Israelites were cut off from the assembly of Israel by death for their unfaithfulness. But they did not stop being called "Israelites."

The Jewish People have indeed failed, as a nation, to become a Christian nation for 2000 years. But they are still being identified as "Israel," ie as the Jewish People who are still called to eventually become a Christian nation. The definition of "Israel" did not change from "the Jewish People" to "the International Church."

Not all Israel is Israel.

Clare73 · Sep 10, 2025

fhansen said:
Ok. Thanx for the psychoanalysis. Maybe you could even expand on it at some point,

Misrepresentation of what was said. . .equating a (n unbelieving) mother's love for her child with her belief that she is sanctified.

Tropical Wilds · Sep 10, 2025

Valletta said:
US students' reading and math scores at historic lows: 'Devastating trend'

High school students, especially 12th graders, are reading and learning math and science at historic lows, according to a new report.

abcnews.go.com

I mean, not to be blunt, but a gander to these forums could have told you that.

Stopped_lurking · Sep 10, 2025

HARK! said:
None of these people successfully entered the US illegally.

The CBP can of course not give a number for those they failed to stop, even if the known border crossing attempts 2025 is only 10% compared with 2024 the number of successful attempts is not zero. My guess is that the hardened would-be criminals are those hardest to deter.

A New Dawn · Sep 10, 2025

NewLifeInChristJesus said:
That's a circular argument. But it breaks down at one point in the circle. He wouldn't call on us to believe if it was something He granted to some and witheld from others. It is cynical to think that He calls on people everywhere to repent/believe/turn from sin to God if He had already prevented some large portion of the human population from doing so. And it contradicts solid Scriptual evidence that He wants everyone to be saved. So, no, I did not prove your point by saying that He tells us we need to believe.

I’m sorry, where do you get the idea that He wouldn’t call on us to believe if it was given to some to hear and withheld from others. JESUS said that very thing when He started teaching in parables.

Mark 4:10-12 (NASB95) 10 As soon as He was alone, His followers, along with the twelve, began asking Him about the parables. 11 And He was saying to them, “To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables, 12 so that WHILE SEEING, THEY MAY SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE, AND WHILE HEARING, THEY MAY HEAR AND NOT UNDERSTAND, OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT RETURN AND BE FORGIVEN.”
(emphasis not mine)

Delvianna · Sep 10, 2025

Honestly I've come across the opposite. That the majority of Christians I've run into believe in prophecy for today but they run off with it and think everything is from God and never test the spirits. When you critique their dream/vision/word, they get defensive and quote Acts 2.

I want to say too that I'm thankful that you mentioned prophecy just isn't about telling the future. A "prophet" is someone who repeats what the Lord tells them and that can be from corrections, warnings or comfort. Not a lot of people consider that and only associate prophecy with foretelling the future. I do believe prophecy is around today, its just not limited like it was to biblical times where certain people were called and recognized.

A New Dawn · Sep 10, 2025

7thKeeper said:
Umm... No, that is very very VERY wrong. Because every vote counts, both sides would need to court every possible vote everywhere. It literally would mean both parties would have to take everyone into consideration.

And again, this applies only the presidency, I still do not understand why you keep sticking to that as if it's the only thing that matters. As if there's no representation through the Senate and Congress.

First, the left generally ignores the flyover states. Not always, but generally. And second, the president is elected by the electoral vote, and while it is Congress that passes bills, it is the president that signs them into law. Without having equal distribution between parties, as president, major parts of the nation have no national support. We also see how certain presidents, generally on the left, are light on crime, and on upholding the law, in general, have left he citizens of this country living in fear and often felt targeted, themselves, by administration if they speak out on how they feel. The president’s only job is to protect the citizens of the United States from enemies both foreign and domestic, and the right is better at doing that than the left.

bling · Sep 10, 2025

A New Dawn said:
OR it could mean what it says in relation to a fallen world.

I am not sure why people assume when we talk about a fallen world that we are talking about being responsible for Adam’s sin. We are not talking about that at all. We are responsible only for our own sin, the only thing Adam has to do with the conversation is that he is responsible for sin being in the world. He paid for his sin, but that doesn’t change the fact that sin is now in the world and we all must be responsible for the sin we commit.

To better understand the concept of the fall, there is the Genesis 3 passage and Romans 5 and 1 Corinthians 15 that speaks to how that event impacted the world.

The Bible is silent on the state of babies, so I am not going to go out on a limb on this, BUT we need to remember that they are also born into a fallen world. And a child doesn’t stay a baby for long.

God defines what is sin and not sin and provides that knowledge to man. For Adam and Eve, it was not a sin to: lust, covet, avoid seeking wise council, Eve not helping Adam and really do or think anything other than physically eatting the fruit of the tree of knowledge. "Knowledge" of Good and Evil made all these sins without having make the world into a "fallen" world.

Fervent · Sep 10, 2025

childeye 2 said:
It is astute of you to notice that it was probably my question to another poster that was the impetus to rephrase the original question into a simpler form. That part of your assessment, I am forced to agree with.

As I understand it, to write a workable algorithm one has to ask the right questions.

So, likewise, while my turn of the question grossly deviated from the authors original intent, it's not like I didn't see there was more than one inference that could be drawn from the original format which was designed to be rhetorical.

That observation was included in my initial response -->"If I say yes, would you believe me?" -> Indicates I knew the poster anticipated a no response -> and that "Yes" was not the answer he was anticipating-> which is why I also provided a qualifier ---> "Yes, I do think people must question their beliefs on this forum -> whenever correction is taking place."

True enough

childeye 2 said:
I understand that even though I'm not a mathematician. I study semantics particular to psycholinguistics. So, for me axioms exist in semantical frameworks constructed using true dichotomies that I can safely reason upon through both induction and deduction.

This sounds like gobbledy gook.

childeye 2 said:
Sure. But any sound reasoning would establish an equilibrium. For example, I wouldn't trust in ignorance.

Equilibrium? What does that mean in the context of the circular justification needed to engage with inductive reasoning?

childeye 2 said:
The sentiment 'Trustworthy' is contained in the term God. God = Eternal power = Has no beginning and no end = Everlasting = Source of the energy that formed all things = Real = Reality =Truth = Trustworthy.

So you're saying all of those things are tautological?

childeye 2 said:
The sentiments in these dichotomies are relative to God --> True/false, Knowledge/ignorance, Honesty/dishonesty, Moral/immoral, Faithful/faithless, Compassionate/uncompassionate, Reasonable/unreasonable, Heartful/heartless, Kindness/unkindness, Merciful/merciless, Goodness/wickedness, Gracious/disgraceful.

Ok?

childeye 2 said:
But motives are a fact of reality and can be observed.

Observed by who?

childeye 2 said:
Facts to me are dictated by reality, not imagined. Subsequently, IF someone in reality lied so as to deceive and no one found out, it would still qualify as a fact of reality that the person lied with a motive to deceive even IF no one saw it.

Sure, but our perception of that reality is skewed by our point of view. My earlier example of sight remains a good example, since our vision is corrected(inverted and details filled in) compared to the stimuli the eyes respond to.

childeye 2 said:
IF someone believed a lie and then reasoned upon it, their conclusiongs will contain a deviance from the truth which will be reflected in their actions.

childeye 2 said:
I don't know what issue you expect me to find with the trilemma. The term skepticism falls in line under the term 'distrust' which is the negative in this objectively true dichotomy Trust/distrust. Objectively skepticism/cynicism would point to the Eternal in its denial thereof. Subjectively, skepticism is necessary to not be fooled into believing something that isn't true.

I don't expect you to find any issue, I keep bringing it up in reference to your dogmatic approach to knowledge. Philosophical skepticism has nothing to do with trust/distrust, since it is a means to bring us to the end of ourselves; which is often required before we can see God.

NewLifeInChristJesus · Sep 10, 2025

A New Dawn said:
So, do you realize that you just proved my point? Precisely that believing in Jesus is the work of God. And giving us ears to hear (and eyes to see) is one of the ways that happens.

That's a circular argument. But it breaks down at one point in the circle. He wouldn't call on us to believe if it was something He granted to some and witheld from others. It is cynical to think that He calls on people everywhere to repent/believe/turn from sin to God if He had already prevented some large portion of the human population from doing so. And it contradicts solid Scriptual evidence that He wants everyone to be saved. So, no, I did not prove your point by saying that He tells us we need to believe.

Clare73 · Sep 10, 2025

fhansen said:
Where there's error, it always lies in humans. The point is that there's no such thing as 100% knowledge that one will have eternal life-

I'm sure you'll understand if I take God at his word in Ro 8:16, 23, 2 Co 1:22, 5:5, Eph 1:13, 14, rather than overriding it with your word.

Nor did you answer my question regarding your having the witness stated by Paul in Ro 8:16, 2 Co 1:22, 5:5.

Strong in Him · Sep 10, 2025

concretecamper said:
You quoted Scripture and then added on your 2 cents to the verse. That is adding to Scripture.

"Paul tells us to offer our bodies as a true and living sacrifice - which is our spiritual worship, Romans 12:1"

Paul doesn't say anything about Spiritual worship in that verse.

He does in the ESV

Therefore I urge you, brothers, on account of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.

NIV

Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship

NLT

And so, dear brothers and sisters,a I plead with you to give your bodies to God because of all he has done for you. Let them be a living and holy sacrifice—the kind he will find acceptable. This is truly the way to worship him.

Amplified

Therefore I urge you, Romans 12 Amplified Biblebrothers and sisters, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies [dedicating all of yourselves, set apart] as a living sacrifice, holy and well-pleasing to God, which is your rational (logical, intelligent) act of worship.

Why didn't you consider other translations of Scripture before accusing me of adding to God's word?

Clare73 · Sep 10, 2025

Strong in Him said:
Revelation is the end of the Bible - but whatever.
You want me to write several long posts explaining who God is?

I give up. . .do I?

Strong in Him said:
Revelation is the end of the Bible - but whatever.
You want me to write several long posts explaining who God is?
Look it up for yourself - or better still, look at Jesus.
There isn't enough space and I haven't enough time.
I showed you what pertains to our discussion; that God is love, that he is patient, merciful, compassionate, forgiving etc.
Which means that I do not believe he would choose Judas, whom he knew to be a devil, give him the ability to drive out demons (which Jesus said is impossible) and then, when Judas had fulfilled God's purposes - presumably betraying Jesus - toss him aside and condemn him.

That is the impression I had after reading your posts. I asked a few times if you were saying that God is like this and got no answer.

What I said is entirely Scriptural and entirely relevant.
The message I've been getting from this recent discussion is that Hebrews 6 can be applied, retrospectively, to Judas, because Judas was evil, a devil and was never saved. I asked why Jesus would have deliberately chosen someone he knew was a devil - i.e. belongs to Satan - how he, who is light, could have fellowship with darkness and why he would have given him power to perform miracles.
Your answer was this this was all part of God's purpose - which suggested that God deliberately chose evil to fulfil his plan of salvation and then got rid of Judas when he didn't need him any longer.

I don't believe that Judas was evil from the beginning and Jesus deliberately chose to have fellowship with a devil.
I don't believe that he gave a devil power to cast out demons, as he had taught that Satan cannot drive out Satan.
I don't believe that Judas was one of the 12 only because God "needed" someone who would betray Jesus and bring about the cross.
I am not sure, although I don't know, that Judas deliberately turned away from, and rejected Jesus. I think it possible that he believed Jesus was the Messiah, everyone knew the Messiah would be a military king who would defeat the Romans and he tried to force Jesus to fight back when he was arrested.
I believe these things because a) I have read various commentaries and b) this fits with the God of amazing love and endless compassion and forgiveness who I know, trust in and serve.

I also don't think that Hebrews 6 can be applied to Judas - but as he, and everyone else, is dead, it doesn't matter.

Strong in Him said:
Look it up for yourself - or better still, look at Jesus.
There isn't enough space and I haven't enough time.
I showed you what pertains to our discussion; that God is love, that he is patient, merciful, compassionate, forgiving etc.
Which means that I do not believe he would choose Judas, whom he knew to be a devil, give him the ability to drive out demons (which Jesus said is impossible) and then, when Judas had fulfilled God's purposes - presumably betraying Jesus - toss him aside and condemn him. That is the impression I had after reading your posts. I asked a few times if you were saying that God is like this and got no answer.

Which impression I got from Jesus (Mt 26:24).

HARK! · Sep 10, 2025

Stopped_lurking said:
This is still higher than the numbers who escape from prisons. Basically, all that goes missing from prison do so when on leave. Can those who are to be deported even go on leave? Also these are not the numbers of those who successfully enter the US illegally.

None of these people successfully entered the US illegally.
How many gottaways were there for August of 2025?

Garcia would be very foolish to give up his freedom in Swaziland, to take the extremely high risk of attempting to eneter the US again. The penalties are more severe for repeat offenders.

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CBP Posts 95 Percent Decrease in Nationwide 'Got-Aways'​

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Here are some numbers from early March:

CBP Posts 95 Percent Decrease in Nationwide 'Got-Aways'