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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

FBI Releases Images of Person of Interest in Kirk Killing

Not all people who are LGBT or pro-LGBT are sensitive about language. I know plenty of LGBT and pro-LGBT who are comfortable using traditionally homophobic slurs. Including the F one.

That last message doesn't necessarily mean anything, and really is pretty tame compared to how many pro LGBT people on the left talk.
I doubt this phrase was a term of endearment.
Thanks for sharing.
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6,000 Years?

As even many YECs point out, there is no scriptural support for the idea that there was no rain before the flood.

Nope. Just checked. Some of it had liquid water floating in it. (clouds). But no solid dome.


Pointing out that even other YECs don't agree with you.

Raindrops prior to humans:

We send spacecraft to the moon and beyond. They don't crash through a solid sky. C'mon.

Do you now see how your insistence that Genesis must be entirely literal has led you into a completely absurd position?

Another often-overlooked aspect of this argument is that rain is an integral component of the water cycle. The term water cycle refers to the physical processes of water evaporation, cloud formation, and precipitation (rain, snow, etc.) that continually recycle the world’s water supply.

The water cycle, being powered as it is by the sun’s energy, is intimately tied to many other aspects of the earth’s climate. While we cannot be dogmatic about the details of the pre-Flood environment, we can be certain that the sun and seas were present (Genesis 1:10, 15). Therefore, there is no reason to insist that this normal environmental process was not in operation before the Flood.


As even many YECs point out, there is no scriptural support for the idea that there was no rain before the flood.


Nope. Just checked. Some of it had liquid water floating in it. (clouds). But no solid dome.


Pointing out that even other YECs don't agree with you.

Raindrops prior to humans:

We send spacecraft to the moon and beyond. They don't crash through a solid sky. C'mon.

Do you now see how your insistence that Genesis must be entirely literal has led you into a completely absurd position?
Great opinion piece...doesnt mean your opinion is correct. Your first assumption is that everything is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.
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FBI Releases Images of Person of Interest in Kirk Killing

Are you referring to this?


Some of the other messages on the unfired cartridges appear more politically straightforward, including one that says, “Hey fascist! Catch!”

The latter message, Mr. Cox said, most clearly showed the gunman’s intent. “I think that speaks for itself,” he said.
Another featured the words “Bella ciao,” an apparent reference to an Italian song adopted by the antifascist resistance during World War II. It is still sung by the Italian left and in other countries to commemorate the fight against fascism, and it also appears in a recent Netflix series.
1000086060.jpg
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Gleb Podmoshensky

In things like these, we the laity have to walk a tightrope.
On the one hand, we have to acknowledge that Bishops and clergy have authority over us in matters of Holy Tradition, and we must be respectful to them.
On the other hand, we mustn’t turn a blind eye when we are absolutely sure that they are doing wrong and/or evil, and they can’t literally tell us everything that we can and must do or not do. some things really cut across those lines, like requiring people to wear masks in church, I think it’s a really good question - do they really have the authority to do that? Honestly, I don’t think so.

So it is here. two pitfalls, one on either side, falling into one of which wind up supporting a form of tyranny or totalitarianism, the act of excessive and blind trust in obedience, and on the other side, falling into anarchy, where the individual makes himself the arbiter of the faith, and Orthodoxy is in the eye of the beholder. i’ve certainly seen the one in Russia, but the other seems no less dangerous to me.

Purely as an aside, I note that literally no one here has started a thread on the murder of Charlie Kirk and the Ukrainian woman, and the growing unrest and conflict in the country.
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How is it that the Catholic Church is evil?

Thanks for the reply. What Catholic practices lead to destruction?
Okay, I'm just going to give one at the moment or this message is going to be too long. Let's take the idea of praying to others. This can be Mary or to people who you classify as "saints". Let's first start with the idea of prayer. Jesus says,

Matthew 6:5 says - " But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly."

There is no verse that tells you to pray to anyone else. This is why Jesus gave us an example through the Lords prayer. But the word for pray, is proseuchomai which holds the definition of "supplicate" or "worship". Supplicate means to beg or ask something earnestly or humbly but I want to focus on the fact that it specifically says "worship". So not only did Jesus tell us to pray to the Father and that there is no other verse that tells you to pray to anyone else, and since the definition is worship, that brings me to...

"And Jesus answered and said to him, “Get behind Me, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ” - Luke 4:8

"Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; " - Philippians 4:6

So praying to literally anything or anyone else is actually in violation of the 1st commandment because we are not supposed to worship anything else but God and only have 1. Regardless if you want to argue that praying to other people aren't "gods", its still an idol. An Idol is literally anything that you give worship to. So, still in the act of sin and because Catholics do this practice on the regular, this is just one aspect that is driving a giant wedge between you and your relationship with God, when he isn't the only one you worship.

Now for your argument that they're mediators...

"For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus," - 1 Timothy 2:5

The word "mediator" is mesites which also means, go-between-intermediary. That verse needs no other, there is only one and that's Christ. Salvation is a relationship with God and not one where you wedge other people in between when you are supposed to be putting your faith ONLY in God. Pray to him alone, worship him alone, or you might find that Jesus says he never knew you.
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FBI Releases Images of Person of Interest in Kirk Killing

You didn't want to post it but you did. Obviously I already knew what the casings said, but as a student of Orwell I'm always interested in hearing how people can interpret words into meaning the opposite of what they mean.
What's the opposite meaning of a Helldivers reference?
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FBI Releases Images of Person of Interest in Kirk Killing

Was the last inscription cut off?

Are you referring to this?


Some of the other messages on the unfired cartridges appear more politically straightforward, including one that says, “Hey fascist! Catch!”

The latter message, Mr. Cox said, most clearly showed the gunman’s intent. “I think that speaks for itself,” he said.
Another featured the words “Bella ciao,” an apparent reference to an Italian song adopted by the antifascist resistance during World War II. It is still sung by the Italian left and in other countries to commemorate the fight against fascism, and it also appears in a recent Netflix series.
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FBI Releases Images of Person of Interest in Kirk Killing

yep, straight outta middle school
The easiest narrative to draw so far with what we have is this kid grew up in a likely conservative household (dad being a longtime cop), a member of the heavily online crowd (very common for this age group) and fancied (crap)posting ala 4chan and the like. Family said he was becoming a lot more political recently which would possibly suggest some sort of rift or deviation from what the family is used to. If the family is generally conservative, I'd say that would lend credence to the idea that the shooter was drifting left as of recently, and who knows where and how that influence was coming from. Too many variables there. The 2 casings mentioning Fascists is why I'd say that, but it's pretty weak evidence.

All my hunches. Really curious what they'll find on his digital footprint. Doubtful any of this will do anything to sway the temperatures. Both sides are going to claim this guy is from the other side until more definitive info is released.
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MSNBC political analyst fired for blaming Charlie Kirk assassination on 'hate speech'

How are those that are being condemned supposed to react to this? Whose truth and fact are being hated? When there are two opposing views, both parties believe that they are speaking truth and facts.
Thats because Kirk was not speaking about any particular truth should rule. It was the principle of open and free speech itself. That he allowed that freedom to others in prqactice but was not returned that right.

If your talking about personal truths they don't mean fact or first principle truths like say human rights or constitutional rights. Such as the truth principles of freedom to believe, have polical views and associations. Even the right to protest.

How do we determine the truth as opposed to personal truths which are subjective and have no objective way to determine them. I don't know you tell me lol. All I know is that whatever it is, it has to be something outside human personal opinion. Even group opinion because we have a bad track record.

We know these independent truths in democratic and free nations that destinguishes us from other ideas such as Communism, Islam, Marxism or any other ideology. From the Christian truths we at least use to believe in that underpinned our politics.
That depends on if one is on the receiving of Kirk's opinions or not.
But thats exactly what they are, subjective opinions. How is one to know that a word is going to upset a subjective opinion that may be influenced by many factors that may make someone more sensitive to certain words than others.

If this is the basis for truth then we have potentially millions of opinions we need to be careful about before we open our mouths lol. I don't know. Do you have a specific example. But really its more about the idea that there can be multiple truths all competing and equal is the issue I think.

What is behind the idea that personal truths are the most important way to determine what is real.
I don't know about the few faults opinion but of the debates that I have seen, he does allow others people time to speak, without interrupting, before giving his viewpoints. (I wish that he wouldn't speak so fast)
I know and I think he forgets this. Which I think is a presentation problem. But I agree he allows different opinions and asks questions. But he is also good at getting quickly to the point. Because I think he is trying to paint the bigger picture of what is happening. How to think critically.
The Right is famous for their cancel culture but Kirk did allow opposing views.
Yes and I think this is that too and fro, tit for tat politics that happens. In the past there was more unity in the center and the extremes were regarded as out there. Most people generally agreed on the ideas, morals, truth principles such as freedom of opinion and beliefs.

But its gradually become polarised. The political has become the personal. Or is it the personal has become political. Doesn't matter. The extremes have come more into the center on both sides each time ratcheting up to a new level and spreading.

Now we are seeing extremes on both sides in the streets as a result. But I still say that primarily this is a spiritual battle. In becoming the personal it becomes everything including the spiritual.

I believe this is not just a battle of a political ideology or personal truth. But a battle for truth itself. As in Christ. As in how we should order society and the world and reality itself. Either with God or without. Thats what its coming down to. Thats the level it has reached.
Ever hear the song, "Abraham, Martin, and John"? There's something about people who die young that cements their views in the minds of many people.
Yeah I guess. There is something about the (27) club of musos who died at 27 that makes them special. I think there is truth to this and its part of who we are. Martyrs and icons are made so by the society that makes it so.

That Kirk is seen in this way is itself testament to this phenomena. That this is the topic resulting from his death is the manifestation of where the society is at regardless of the right or wrong of what Kirk stood for. This itself is a rare phenomena and significant as far as where a culture is at.

Especially for what I would say is not someone who would come to mind in creating such an outporing or outrage. Maybe someone more related to such a status like Dr King or Diana even. I think in its own way this will be similar as far as culture is concerned.

Maybe and hopefully a time of reflection of where we are at and heading for if we don't unite. Look at whats happening with the rise of antisemetism. This to me is a big red flag for any society to stop in their tracks and think this is not good, this is a sign of an unhealthy society.

In some ways it reminds me of the Tower of Babel where everyone was divided into nations, cultures who are no longer united and fighting with each other over differences.
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FBI Releases Images of Person of Interest in Kirk Killing

You didn't want to post it but you did. Obviously I already knew what the casings said, but as a student of Orwell I'm always interested in hearing how people can interpret words into meaning the opposite of what they mean.
I did because of all the incomplete posts, mainly leaving out the last inscription.
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FBI Releases Images of Person of Interest in Kirk Killing


Not all people who are LGBT or pro-LGBT are sensitive about language. I know plenty of LGBT and pro-LGBT who are comfortable using traditionally homophobic slurs. Including the F one.

That last message doesn't necessarily mean anything, and really is pretty tame compared to how many pro LGBT people on the left talk.
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FBI Releases Images of Person of Interest in Kirk Killing

Its all over the internet. I don't want to post it here because its very rude but , if you like , you can message me and I can break it down for you. It is meme cultured.
You didn't want to post it but you did. Obviously I already knew what the casings said, but as a student of Orwell I'm always interested in hearing how people can interpret words into meaning the opposite of what they mean.
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