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Soyeong · Monday at 12:06 AM

ARBITER01 said:
We obey Jesus. We keep His commandments under the new covenant, not the commandments of the law of moses.

"If you love me, you will keep my commandments" (John 14:15).

"by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments" (1 John 2:3)

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Law of Moses was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom. Jesus also set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Law of Moses, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6). So Jesus spent this ministry teaching his followers to obey the Law of Moses by word and by example and the reason why he established the New Covenant was not in order to nullify anything that he spent his ministry teaching or so that we could continue to have the same lawlessness that caused the New Covenant to be needed in the first place, but rather the New Covenant still involves following the Law of Moses (Jeremiah 31:33).

Jesus quoted three times from Deuteronomy in order to defeat the temptations of Satan, which included saying that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God, so I see no justification for thinking that the commands of Jesus are something other than or contrary to anything that has come from the mouth of God. In John 14:23-24, Jesus said that his teachings were not his own but that of the Father, and John 15:10, he used a parallel statement to equate his commands with those of the Father. The Bible repeatedly says in both the OT and the NT that the way to love God is by obeying His commandments, which is exactly the same as the way to love the Son, so again there is no justification for thinking that his commandments are something different.

rjs330 · Monday at 12:03 AM

childeye 2 said:
Legalism seems to think that people were made to serve the law rather than the law was made to serve people.

Yes, and thats not what is happening here.

childeye 2 said:
Since the law supports accommodating asylum seekers with the understanding that they are fleeing some form of persecution in their own countries, it makes no sense to break the intent of the law and send them back to their own country.

That's why they have to prove their case. The majority can't. They should be shipped home. If they can, then they should be allowed to stay.

stevevw · Monday at 12:01 AM

Vambram said:
If calling out sin is harsh words, then so be it.

The whole idea of "harsh" words is a subjective one. What one person thinks harsh another thinks truth or for the best in the long run. If someone points out that a person is unhealthily over weight this is not harsh as in picking on the person or demeaning them because of their weight. Though we know this happens and people are cruel.

But I don't think Charlie ever spoke in a way that was being malice towards others. In fact his words (if you want to use words as the measure of a person) which is wrong in the first place. But his actual words as far as someone being trans or gay was that God loved them as much as anyone and their trans or being gay itself is not wrong. He protected their rights in that sense.

But he also spoke truth and that he could do that in the lions den is a testiment to his ability to engage. Yes it can get controversial but that is what is needed. That people can talk about difficult and controversial issues. That they can speak their truth about it.

We see many, many people speak for LGBTIQ+ communities and say just as controversial and provocative things in expressing their beliefs and point of view. That is what called engaging with different beliefs and views.

That is a fundemental principle that free democratic nations were built on. I like what Jordan Peterson once said in the debate on free speech. In order to have free speech you have to be willing to offend some people as there is never agreement. Kirk I think would die defending a persons right to that free speech even if it opposed his.

Whereas someone decided that certain free speech should be completely cancelled. Which really regardless of the specific example of KIrks death and the rights and wrongs is more a blight on the cultural and national state of affairs that shows the poor health of the nation and where its at today.

I should add that this is not just an American phenomena and is happening throughout most western nations and especially in Britain and Europe. In a strange way it is also tied to the current conflict between Hamas and Islamists and Isreal and the West.

Stopped_lurking · Monday at 12:00 AM

stevevw said:
At about 16 minute mark mentions the vases scanned from Petrie museum by the Adam Young and Karoyl research group where around 11 vases fell in the precise class.

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They use a different quality criteria, precise and imprecise means different hings for Maximus Energy and Karoly and the Artifact Foundation.

stevevw said:
We know that Olgas vases fall in the hand made and imprecise class in from Maximus. We know the precise class from Maximus is on par with the precision from the vases tested at the Petrie museum. So it logically follows that the vases from the Petrie museum are not the same as Olgas vases and are way more precise.

They are the same according to Maximus Energy

Olgas O1 cluster with the green Petrie vases.

stevevw said:
Besides I keep saying most people acknowledge a pretty sophisticated lathe was used to get the high precision in the circularity and symmetry. Olgas method cannot produce that high precision as we can see how the traditional method wobbels too much to produce precise circularity.

I agree that in testing a higher expectation is required because its actually testing a theory and needs a high standard of evidence. As more vases get tested that are exactly the same as these so called 'unknown provedence' this will lend more support for their athenticity.

I am not saying a vase with similar precision could not have been done in the mid 20th century. I am saying it would have taken our best tech at that time and arguing that it was expensive and hard to access that equipment and totally unnecessary when no one worried about precision.
Its a far fetched arguement to claim that someone would even bother. We would expect to find fakes with less precision as no one would know and be bothered with that precision. They could make one less precise and still get away with it as no one was measuring the vases down to the micron level.

Many fake artifacts have been produced since Napoleons invasion of Egypt, how well made the fakes are follow a distribution some of them are going to be trash and some of them are going to look fantastic. The ones that are of high quality have a much higher chance to be spared for posterity. So we have a selection of fake but nice and high quality vases, going through time. So people did care about precision even back then. I don't find it far-fetched that some fakes can be of very high precision.

stevevw said:
I am talking about all the vases that have been tested. Maximus is only one researcher. I am specifically talking about the vases tested by Adam Young and Károly Póka research team that tested vases from the Petrie museum twice now.

Actually I gave you the link already. His results show up to 11 Petrie vases in the precision class. They also tested Olgas and they were as Maximus found in the imprecise class and magnitudes lower. Karoyl also addresses the use of a modern tech wheel on Olgas vase.

They are using different definitions of precise and imprecise.

stevevw said:
Yes, the explicit statement is they are on display as genuine vases in the Petrie museum as genuine vases lol.

That is not a statement where they guarantee their authenticity.

stevevw said:
I mean fixating on the few vases with short provedence as fakes when this has not been established and then use this to refute the precision vases altogether.

Of course its a science. Metrology is a science. The science of measurement.

That's not what I said, I said the act of taking measurements is not science by itself. Metrology is the science about measurements, and yes they do take many measurements but they also use that data in order to further our understanding how we should take measurements.

stevevw said:
Ok Peer review lol. All this insistence on peer review.

I am not saying that anyone should avoid peer review. This will happen. As I said in some ways its already happened as papers have been written. Just not submitted to any journal as yet. Its ongoing. But those papers are open for peer review. You can or a expert can review them and publish a paper refuting them.

Why should anyone publish a paper refuting them when all they have done is put it up as podcasts and on their own webpages? What we write here carry as much weight as their findings, it is also public and readable for everyone.

stevevw said:
Lol I think theres enough scientists or at least people who claim to be experts objecting and complaining. Like the Scientists against Myth. Or like some on this thread even. They may claim to be experts and have a right to submit a paper refuting the findings.

In the meantime they are quite happy to do a sort of backyard peer review on this thread. Similar to what you are doing in asking questions, posing arguements for why its not the case. Thats ok in the meantime I think.

Because this is the arena Maximus Energy and the Artifact Foundation have chosen. They could instead send their manuscripts to a journal, if they wanted to interact with subject matter experts.

stevevw said:
Yes there are and some on this thread are trying to refute them now in questioning the measurements found by metrology. The metrology findings are from scientific testing. Testing the measurements on the vases with scientific equipment.

Measurements are not found by metrology, metrology informs those measuring how to take good measurements.

stevevw said:
Actually no, they are offered as scientific tests done with proper equipment. The numbers don't lie. If a object is 6cm long and the equipment measures it at 6cm long it cannot lie. If the test is repeatedby independent testers and they find its also 6cm long its good science and not just say so.

Ok, so it is 6 cm long. what were the tolerances of the measuring equipment, how was the measurement setup, etc. They could try to get published in a metrology journal if they want, no one is stopping them.

stevevw said:
I think your getting mixed up with the speculation about what the measures mean. But the numbers don't lie and if they show modern tech was needed then thats not say so.

But without good provenance, a measurement is inconsequential. A number in and of itself can not say that modern tech is needed, that is an interpretation.

stevevw said:
First the tests are not done on a podcase but on site at the Petrie museum. Second the light scaning creates a light grid that captures the entire vase no matter how it stands. So long as you capture the entire vase. PLus the scan is plug into the softwar so tells the tester what is exactly being captured.

You were the one that said they did it live.

stevevw said:
But this is my point. You question the method or effort but its ok for you to do that without the same rigor of proper re testing and peer review. That someone skeptics objections are science. The scans have been done several times by independent testers and all have the same findings. Thats good science.

So, which are the overlapping Petrie vases in Maximus Energys dataset and the Artifact Foundations dataset. Why are none of the Petrie vases in Maximus Energys dataset in his precise class while the Artifact Foundation say some are. This needs to be cleared up, these are questions that would hav arisen during peer-review most likely.

stevevw said:
What, the best one is actuallt one of the best from all vases even the ones with short provedence. Its actually more precise (0.003) on the inside than on the outside (0.004). All the precise vases have small deviations that they could only have been made by sophisticated mathing.

Not according to the surface deviation plots, you now the colorful depictions of vases that shows indents and ridges etc.

stevevw said:
OK. But I think its because of the precise symmetry and circularity that could only be achieved by a lathe and not the coil method.

Honestly have you read the article fully?

stevevw said:
All of them. If the guage metrology shows a near perfect circle around the neck of the vase or opening down to 1,000s of an inch. Then the CT, lazer or X Ray light scan shows the same parts on the same vase with the same precision but just more accurate into the micron level. Its all still showing the same results of precision to varying degrees.

The Liturgist · Monday at 12:00 AM

DaveHTexas said:
I have been unemployed for a long time now (19 months) due to the AI dessimation of the IT job market. Honestly nobody really saw that coming nor prepared for it. But not the point I need to make.

To make ends meet I am driving ride share, doesn't matter which one, but I am hustling my tail off, working 12 hour days to make less than 1/4 of what I was earning before just so I don't have to end up on the streets.

I know I should tithe, but on what amount?

Let's assume I earned $5,000.00 in fares, and tips last month. That number is high, but let's go with it anyway.
Now let's assume that I spend $250.00 each week on gas and toll road tolls to do this, so my net is $4,000.00, and the weekly spend on fuel and tolls is likely LOW...
Now assume further in doing this I needed $3,000.00 in vehicle repairs to keep my car SAFE to operate for myself and my riders. Now my net is $1,000.00

Do I tithe on the $5,000.00 GROSS, or the $1,000.00 NET?

For anyone paying attention, that is 288 hours to get $1,000.00 net income and a car with an added 10K miles on it. That works out to $3.47 per hour.

If you rideshare and don't tip. You may want to look at those numbers again. Would you work for $3.47 / hour and wear out a valuable asset like a car?

In the Eastern Orthodox Church tithing is not required, nor is it required by most traditional liturgical churches in the US such as the various Anglican churches, and its fairly obvious you are not in a position to give alms.

The system of tithes, church taxes and in the UK certain landowners having maintenance responsibilities for the local parish, imposed in Western Europe was and is used used by established churches like the Church of England, the Roman Catholic Church, the Presbyterian Church of Scotland, the various Lutheran churches of Germany, the Lutheran churches of Scandinavia, the Continental Reformed churches in Prussia, the Netherlands and so on, and these churches historically provided much of what is now provided by the welfare state in those countries, and in some cases still acts as an agent of it, for example with state-funded parochial schools paid for by a church tax in countries like Germany.

By the way, in the IT industry there is strong demand for skilled cloud, AI and security professionals; the main hit has been on software development and certain types of traditional systems administration and engineering. If you can develop your skillset towards these areas you might well be able to regain employment. Also freelancers in various IT related specialties ranging from web development to systems programming can leverage AI to greatly improve productivity.

I do understand this is not the main topic of your thread, but I would be very happy to provide some specific reccommendations for professional development in another thread or privately via a conversation.

I would also be very happy to pray for you.

God bless you!

Robban · Monday at 12:00 AM

A snake bite hurts but it is the venom that kills.

Godcrazy · Oct 5, 2025

I will not beat a dead horse further. contact him

Godcrazy · Oct 5, 2025

Larniavc said:
You have made a claim but a claim is not evidence. You cannot simply claim something is true and not expect people to check whether what you say is true or false.

I checked. I looked this guy up. Nowhere does he make those claims.

YOU do but seem unable to give reason for why you think it is true. Asking me to verify with the gentleman in question whether YOUR claim about him is true is asinine.

yet I posted the wikipedia information about him, that say he is a priest and psychologist. I noticed straight above that another written about that he is not and they debated it. But, straight under, the wiki did say. however it can easily be ended, if you just contact him. instead of debate it. I know what I read. and what he said. so let HIM finish it

Christsfreeservant · Oct 5, 2025

“Seek the Lord while He may be found;

Call upon Him while He is near.

Let the wicked forsake his way

And the unrighteous man his thoughts;

And let him return to the Lord,

And He will have compassion on him,

And to our God,

For He will abundantly pardon.

For My thoughts are not your thoughts,

Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the Lord.

For as the heavens are higher than the earth,

So are My ways higher than your ways

And My thoughts than your thoughts.” (Isaiah 55:6-9 NASB1995)

This is from the Old Testament, but the New Testament writings teach the same truths. To come to God and to put our faith in Jesus Christ, who is the second person of our triune God – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit – it requires that, by God-gifted and God-persuaded faith in the Lord Jesus, we forsake our sinful practices and that we now follow our Lord in walks of obedience to his commands, in surrender to his will and to his purpose for our lives.

For God’s grace is not just forgiveness of sins and the promise of eternal life with God based on a profession of faith in Jesus Christ only. God’s grace, which is bringing us salvation, is training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives while we wait for our Lord’s return (see Titus 2:11-14). And his grace sent Jesus to the cross to put our sins to death with him so that, by faith in him, we will die to sin and now walk in obedience to our Lord in surrender to his will.

For Jesus Christ taught that to come to him we must deny self, take up our cross daily (die daily to sin), and follow (obey) him. For if we hold on to living in sin and for self, we will lose our lives for eternity. But if we deny self, die daily to sin, by the Spirit, and we walk in obedience to our Lord and to his commands, in his power, then we have eternal life with God. For not everyone who calls him “Lord” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one DOING (obeying) the will of God (see Luke 9:23-26; Matthew 7:21-23).

For by God-gifted faith in Jesus Christ, which is not of our own doing, we are crucified with Christ in death to sin and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life in him, no longer to live as slaves to sin but as slaves to righteousness in walks of obedience to God’s commands. We are no longer to permit sin to reign in our mortal bodies to make us obey its desires. For if sin is what we obey, it results in death. But if obedience to God is what we obey, it results in sanctification, and its end is eternal life with God (see Romans 6:1-23).

So, faith in Jesus Christ is not lip service only. It is not just a verbal confession of Jesus Christ as Lord and of his bodily resurrection. It is not just words we say in a prayer to “receive Christ,” either. And it is not a one-time event which takes place in our lives which secures us heaven for eternity, but regardless of how we live. For how we live determines whether or not our faith is of the flesh or if it is of God, and if it aligns with the biblical gospel, or if it does not. And that determines our eternal destiny.

For we learn in 1 John 1-3 that if we claim that we have fellowship with God, but yet we walk in darkness (sin), we are liars. If we claim that we know God, but we do not obey his commandments, in practice, we are liars. For it is not the one who claims he is “in Christ” who is “in Christ,” but it is the one who has denied self, died with Christ to sin, and who is now walking in obedience to our Lord and to his commands, in practice, and no longer in sin. We have the hope and the promise of eternal life with God in heaven.

For our thoughts are not the same as God’s thoughts, and our ways are not the same as his ways. But God’s ways are higher than our ways, and his thoughts are higher than our thoughts. So we do not get to define faith and salvation and forgiveness of sins and eternal life with God according to our own fleshly thinking, according to our own will and purpose. But we need to define all of that according to the teachings of the Scriptures, but taught in their correct biblical context, and not out of context.

For many charlatans and wolves in sheep’s clothing dwell among us who are distorting the truth of the Scriptures by teaching them out of their correct biblical context in order to make them say what they want them to say. So it is important that we are students of the Scriptures who read and interpret them according to their correct biblical context. Both in the Old Testament and in the New Testament we are taught that biblical faith involves us dying to sin and walking in obedience to our Lord’s commands. Know the truth!

[Matthew 7:13-14,21-23; Luke 9:23-26; John 10:27-30; Acts 26:18; Romans 1:18-32; Romans 2:5-10; Romans 3:23; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-14; 1 Corinthians 10:1-22; Galatians 5:16-24; Ephesians 2:8-10; Ephesians 4:17-32; Ephesians 5:3-6; Titus 2:11-14; Hebrews 3:1-19; Hebrews 4:1-13; Hebrews 10:19-39; Hebrews 12:1-2; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 John 1:1-10; 1 John 2:3-6; 1 John 3:4-10; Revelation 2:1-29; Revelation 3:1-22]

Seek the Lord

Based off Isaiah 55
An Original Work / July 20, 2012
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love
Musical Instrumentation by Mark Bradley

“Come to Me all you who thirst; come to waters.
Listen to Me, and eat what’s good today,
And your soul will delight in richest of fare.
Give ear to Me, and you will live.
I have made an eternal covenant with you.
Wash in the blood of the Lamb.”

Seek the Lord while He may be found; call on Him.
Let the wicked forsake his way, in truth.
Let him turn to the Lord, and he will receive mercy.
Freely, God pardons him.
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,”
declares the Lord, our God.

“My word that goes out of My mouth is truthful.
It will not return to Me unfulfilled.
My word will accomplish all that I desire,
And achieve the goal I intend.
You will go in joy and be led forth in peace.
The mountains will burst into song… before you,
And all of the trees clap their hands.”

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God’s Ways are Higher Than Ours
An Original Work / October 6, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

Pommer · Oct 5, 2025

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Military occupation lol!

Feds Finally Round Up Portland’s “Untouchable” Antifa Core

OH! Is Portland where ANTIFA HEADQUARTERS is located!?
I hadn’t known that, thanks.

Godcrazy · Oct 5, 2025

God loves you. Jesus loves you. God has not forgot you. Even though you may be all alone. And think your days are over .Or that nobody remember you. GOD DOES. He wants you to take new steps with him full of joy. Trust him, and he will pave the road. No matter how hard now, He will create a new way. There is a plan and destiny for you too. It does not matter age. looks. jobs. money. He will. do. it. Today, know you have God on your side.

Pommer · Oct 5, 2025

BPPLEE said:
Federal agents shoot woman they say 'boxed in' authorities on Chicago's Southwest Side

Authorities were on patrol when they were "rammed by 10 cars," according to a statement from the Department of Homeland Security. The woman who was shot "was armed with a semi-automatic weapon," prompting officers to open fire, DHS said. She was taken in fair condition to Mount Sinai Hospital.

www.wbez.org

Chicago police records shared with the Sun-Times show that a Border Patrol agent had called for assistance, reporting that roughly 30 agents had been “surrounded by a large crowd of people.” But police officials weren’t sent to help, the records show.

When the police need police protection, somethings’s up, let’s hope that that isn’t “time”!

The Liturgist · Oct 5, 2025

Stopped_lurking said:
I think humans also struggle with validity as you seem to imply in your edit, it is a fundamental property of natural languages. We and AI might be able to form the statement/question and evaluate it in some formal language, but then we run the risk that we actually are answering a slightly different question instead.

This is reasonable, in that certain logical paradoxes exist as artifacts of natural language, most notably self-contradictory statements such as the Epiminedes Paradox.

The Liturgist · Oct 5, 2025

timewerx said:
AI is not programmed. But you can keep loading it with training data that contains similar statements to reinforce it.

Actually the training process is a form of programming, and additionally it is possible to program a custom GPT with specific behavioral instructions. Furthermore sophisticated models like chatGPT can also control, interact with or run specific programs on their code interpreter and data analysis subsystem if one has an openAI Business or Enterprise Plan, for example.

Jesus did not promise a scripture (New Testament) to guide us to the truth. Ironically, we can read it in the New Testament.

The New Testament overwhelmingly asserts its infallible status which is why this is a central plank of doctrine.

Jesus promised the Holy Spirit but even the Holy Spirit is not above scrutiny (test the spirits).

God the Holy Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, who spake by the Prophets, our Comforter and Paraclete, according to the Nicene Creed (which like the New Testament can also be regarded as infallible) is perfect and is entirely beyond human scrutiny. Of course are allowed whether to discern whether or not it is God the Holy Spirit that is communicating with us, but that is also why we have the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church mentioned in the Nicene Creed, however one defines it (a visible church, multiple visible churches in communion, a visible church defined by communion with a particular bishop as most Romans Catholics regard the Pope, and as some Anglicans still regard the Archbishop of Canterubry,, the common Evangelical model of the invisible church of all the faithful, branch ecclesiology common among high church Anglicans, local church ecclesiology of the sort one finds among Baptists and Congregationalists, Lutheran orthopraxis).

If you think the Bible is above reproach/scrutiny, are you saying the Bible is more authoritative than the Holy Spirit?

Scripture provides us with the information we need to identify God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost and to differentiate Him from diabolical imposture, which is known to occur. The devil routinely impersonates God in an attempt to deceive us.

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The law, the commandments, and Christians.

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Three ICE detainees shot, 2 dead, at ICE facility in Dallas; suspected shooter committed suicide.

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There’s a Giant Flaw in Human History

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Tithing. What are first fruits in a non agrarian society?

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Change god complex to delusions of Dominance

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Change god complex to delusions of Dominance

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God's Ways are Higher Than Ours

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Another liberal judge injects her politics into law...

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For all of you, and for those who need to hear it or have a birthday

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Border Patrol calls for help, Chicago PD does not respond

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