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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Morality without Absolute Morality

Nor can it be purely contextual.

Objective principles are necessary, otherwise, morality becomes solely what societies say it is.
You changed my words in the quote. You are not allowed to do it. If you quote somebody, you cannot insert a word and pretend the other person said that. Please go back and change the quote so that it says exactly what I said.
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Multiple immigration sweeps reported across Los Angeles, with a tense standoff/protest downtown; SEIU union leader arrested

Trump’s top federal prosecutor in L.A. struggles to secure indictments in protest cases

Essayli has won indictments in some serious cases, including two where defendants are accused of throwing or planning to throw Molotov cocktails at L.A. law enforcement officers, and a case where defendants allegedly fired a paintball gun at federal police.

Man pleads guilty to throwing Molotov cocktail at deputies during immigration protest

A 23-year-old man has pleaded guilty to throwing a Molotov cocktail at Los Angeles County sheriff’s deputies during protests against immigration raids across the region last spring

The incendiary device landed in a grassy area near the foot of a protester and about 15 feet (4.5 meters) from the deputies, according to the plea agreement. Galvez said he then ran away.

[No mention of any injuries.]
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Trump sends troops to the 'warzone' of Portland...

But I think that is the point, they want their to be violence to justify the use of force.
So at least you agree that the protestors are violent and will get more violent if we try to protect people. Nice.

Yeah, what great people there are down there.
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Elon Musk says he canceled his Netflix account — and urges his followers to as well

They did? Was this in the marketing? Because I don't recall that from the show itself, at all.
All in the marketing, actor media spots, etc etc.

The awful show itself said nothing about that. Except maybe how great it can be to have friends across the (entirely Nordic/Teutonic mythos) race lines of dwarf and elf.
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Trump sends troops to the 'warzone' of Portland...

No, get him some truth of the matter. There is only about 20 protesters there in front of the ICE building. I think the Secret Service could handle that.

It was very peaceful in Portland. The increased ICE activity is trying to change that. And the National Guard is not even there yet.

But I think that is the point, they want their to be violence to justify the use of force.
More lies. If the police would do their jobs there wouldnt need to be any NG troops. The fact is the police are not doing their job so someone else has to in order to protect the building and the people.
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Elon Musk says he canceled his Netflix account — and urges his followers to as well

I should say, Rings Of Power totally overdid it talking about how much its about diversity. It got a little absurd.
They did? Was this in the marketing? Because I don't recall that from the show itself, at all.
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The significance of Paul

Thanks to all of you who have taken the time to reply.
I was raised in a Christian home but most of the learning was DIY and what I thought I knew, I realized when I grew up, was entirely wrong.
For example, it was only within the last year or so that I realized the books Paul wrote weren't written by Jesus Himself!
I asked my mom, who read the bible to me my whole childhood about if she knew this, and she didn't! At this moment,
I don't know who she thinks wrote the books of Paul but that is another topic for another time.
Well, Paul received his knowledge in heaven from Jesus (2 Co 12:2-9).
Part of the question stems from just ignorance and recent enlightenment but also, so many of the things Paul says are so relevant to today and I am baffled by the church not preaching on these particular things e.g. the infiltration of the followers of Christ by certain religious institutions as a way to undermine Christs words etc.
For example:
Galatians 1: 6-10
6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 1 - New International Version
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Ethics of Proselytization

I could have put this in a Christians-only section, but I wanted this open to non-Christians.

Somewhat recently I had an experience at my work; for context I work at a popular retail warehouse store, I don't work for them but I do work in that warehouse, along with vendors of other companies who operate in the same space. A lot of people from different companies all operate within the same space, and naturally we interact with one another on a regular basis. As such I've built up friendly relationships with a lot of people who I interact with regularly.

Over several months I have interacted with a certain individual, it's always casual always friendly, but they work for a different company than I do. However several weeks ago this individual gave me a card, it had a pretty picture of sunflowers on it, and I didn't think much of it, I smiled, thanked them, made a comment about needing more sunshine in my life, that sort of thing. I slipped the card away and didn't really take a look at it until after work. Well, it was a Gospel tract disguised as a card.

Receiving religious material isn't the weirdest thing that's happened to me at my job, but usually it's customers leaving things on a cart, or slipped between food items to be found by a random passerby.

But this particular experience gave me pause and a thought: Has this individual's actions and behavior toward me, their demeaner, their friendliness (etc) been part of an attempt at proselytizing. I mean, I'm a Christian and the card/tract was generically Christian enough that I have no idea what denomination they are part of. I wasn't offended obviously, but it led me to wonder to what degree their interactions with me came from sincere comradery, or whether it is a kind of "missionary" tactic.

I may not have thought this except that, growing up in a particular kind of Christian environment, missionary-friendship and missionary-relationships were considered a valid "tactic" at trying to make converts. So that background does mean that I am aware that this is something that exists. It's not part of my current religious practice, but it was in the background I was raised in.

And I guess here's the point: When I thought about this, I felt a kind of betrayal. As though this person had been insincere in their interactions with me, I felt like a target, or an objective--not a person. And again, I wasn't angry, I wasn't particularly offended, but I felt dehumanized--even if just slightly.

As I was thinking about all of this again this evening, I wanted to open up this topic more broadly. Because I have a feeling many people--especially people outside of my religion--know exactly the feelings I felt, and I thought this could be a good topic of discussion. And ideally, a way for Christians like me to learn more, take feedback, and consider the ethics of religious outreach.

A secondary thought I had in all this: In some ways I feel like I would prefer a total stranger leaving a tract or pamphlet than someone who has been regularly interacting with me. There is a sense in which now I question and doubt the sincerity in friendliness of this person that I didn't before. And that's kind of an awful feeling to have. I'm not angry with them, or offended, but I now doubt their authenticity toward me. And I feel like this experience I had might provide me with a slight amount of insight and empathy with those who experience this more regularly.

-CryptoLutheran

Work environments, at least in my experience, are somewhat sterile when it comes to friendships. In my current work environment and in most I've been in it is place were the issue at hand must be discussed and there can be legal and financial ramifications due to the decisions made. That is not to say there are not conversations that involve things of a personal nature. I know one coworker is a Christian for certain as he has mentioned being an usher at his church, or he is attending some function/activity or another. I have been asked a few times about my faith by one coworker or anther and I tell them it is none of their business or concern. That has always shut down further discussions on the topic immediately. Only ever had one person try to hand something to me. I said "no thank you" and when they left it on my desk I merely returned it to their desk later. Nothing more came of that. There are extremely few people I will accept something from.

Outside of work I shutdown any attempt to proselytize/evangelize me instantly. I am polite but firm at first. If the person persists I will become harsh, but that is extremely rare. Most take the hint and go about their business. It is part of their Christian faith and they have a Constitutional right to practice that faith. They also have a right to freedom of expression, I also have a right to not participate in it.
  • Agree
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Elon Musk says he canceled his Netflix account — and urges his followers to as well

Okay, so then people should just acknowledge that rather than playing coy and pretending "what? it's just a show about solving mysteries that just so happens to have some non-straight non-sis characters, what's everyone so upset about?"
Ok. They should do that. Not that its important whether they do it or not. I mean, who cares.

I should say, Rings Of Power totally overdid it talking about how much its about diversity. It got a little absurd. So on second thought maybe people should just make their show without erecting billboards to explain it.
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Why it's Time to End "Gay Marriage"

What a perfectly lost thing to say. I was indwelt by Ruah the moment I was save and from that moment forward I am witnessing to lost men and women. A Christian wants none to suffer the Lake of Fire and same sex people will burn there.
While I agree with Catholic teachings on same sex attraction as well as same sex actions and marriage, you are NOT qualified to say who will end up in Hell.
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DOJ issues subpoenas to NY AG Letitia James, including over Trump civil fraud case and NRA case: Sources

Trump-Appointed US attorney under pressure to charge Letitia James in mortgage fraud case has resigned

The move is likely to deepen concerns that the department — already investigating other public figures Trump regards as foes — is being weaponized by a White House seeking to have its prosecutorial powers used for purposes of retribution.

More turmoil at Virginia US attorney's office following Comey indictment: 2 top prosecutors fired, sources say

[The office] handles the bulk of the federal government's most sensitive national security cases.

The office's top national security official, Michael Ben'Ary, was informed Wednesday of his termination just hours after a MAGA-aligned activist posted on social media about his past work in the office of former Biden-era Deputy Attorney General Lisa Monaco, sources told ABC News.

Ben'Ary, who had risen through ranks of federal law enforcement over the past 20 years, was the lead attorney on the case of Mohammad Sharifullah -- an alleged plotter who is accused of assisting ISIS-K in the bombing of Abbey Gate whose case and extradition to the U.S. was announced by Trump in a joint address to Congress earlier this year. Sharifullah is set to stand trial in early December.

Another prosecutor, Maya Song, the former deputy to Erik Siebert -- who was oustedtwo weeks ago under pressure from Trump -- was fired last Friday by Siebert's replacement Lindsey Halligan, sources familiar with the matter told ABC News.
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President Trump Signs Executive Order to Defund NPR and PBS

We all complain about various things that our tax dollars are spent on. But with more local control over local things each community can decide what they value and want. At the federal level we don't. I have little to no control of how my tax dollars are spent. When we got a big upgrade to our local library the voters had to approve it because their local taxes had to go up.

You can't be surprised that I disagree on how a lot of our federal dollars are spent. With local control there are far greater controls on the money. Most towns and cities are limited on their resources and have to go to their citizens ask for more and get the votes. Not so with the feds. They can over spend like mad with no consequence.
None of this is true. You can petition your federal representatives the same as you can your city councilperson. Sure, at the federal level, there are more people and more competing interests, but that doesn't mean you have no control or no voice. Given that your party controls all three branches at the moments, I think it's a bit rich to say that you have no control. You voted in the people who are doing whatever the heck they want, right now.

Actually, I take that back - one thing in there is true: the federal government does have a lot more leeway to incur debt than state and local governments to.
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Trump sends troops to the 'warzone' of Portland...

Except the Secret Service would have to clear all the protestors out of the area first. Are you trying to get the president attacked?
No, get him some truth of the matter. There is only about 20 protesters there in front of the ICE building. I think the Secret Service could handle that.

It was very peaceful in Portland. The increased ICE activity is trying to change that. And the National Guard is not even there yet.

But I think that is the point, they want their to be violence to justify the use of force.
  • Agree
Reactions: GoldenBoy89
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Trump sends troops to the 'warzone' of Portland...

Thats is patently a lie from someone. Its not single digit people. I cant believe prople are allowed to post such falsehoods.
Really? You can't believe it. You can't believe "such a falsehood" is allowed to get posted.

Have you ever seen Trump's account?
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