I am registered to vote, however I feel that I am politically ignorant on important things like micro- and macro-economics, the impacts of social policy on society, and things like that. I want to continue to grow, not stay stagnant in my ignorance. I am only one person, however, I believe that every person's opinion should matter, especially with regards to local policy. And someday, I might want to have children of my own. In that case, I'd hope that I would be educated enough to pass on critical-thinking skills.

I want to know why things like "Marxism" (whatever that means) aren't supposed to be good (from an academic standpoint), and what the word "fascism" actually means. Google can be my friend sometimes, but in this case, I feel like I'd likely run into a lot of biased material.

To be transparent, I am a 27-year-old college graduate and I have taken political science and economics in the past, but that was years ago and I barely passed those classes. That doesn't mean that I'm dumb, I just didn't have that enough time to properly absorb the material because the classes went so fast.

See Why did God create humans?

I see a lot of "informal" use of vocabulary that talks about "logic" or "logical" methods. But, I see very few Christians who have thought about modern Symbolic Logic (the basis of the hard sciences), and forms of applied logics that the different scientific disciplines have developed for their specialized (narrow) problem solving. The same language about "critical thinking skills" is common, but few authors agree on what this language means.

Also, I see much confusion in the "Christian" discussion of logic, in other apologetic forums. Specifically, there is a lot of confusion as to the similarities and differences between Aristotelian syllogisms and modern symbolic logic, and ancient rhetorical "fallacies" and modern symbolic logic. Christians need to discuss these topics openly (as a number of references to "logical fallacies" are not really relevant in the modern time).

Also, I see a vacuum of Christian discussion about how moral-ethical systems are constructed, how a Christian would construct a formal ME system, and how it would be related to formal logic rules. In this vacuum, many Christians have not thought carefully about what the applied logics in the hard sciences CAN express, and CANNOT express. One topic they CANNOT express is ME systems. But this should be carefully recognized, and the competencies of the hard sciences should not be slandered, because they are incapable of discussing some topics relevant to Christianity.

I see a vacuum in (lay, modern) Christian thinking about "our shared reality", and the components of that reality. Formal logic has to be a component of our shared reality, and there are moral reasons why this is so. But especially Christian groups that are biased toward being anti-intellectual, do not see formal logic principles as a component in our shared reality. And this needs to be discussed among Christians.

The explicit link between formal logic and morality-ethics, needs to be discussed by Christians.

The distinction between logical validity-invalidity in a proof, and logical soundness-unsoundness in a proof, clearly needs to be discussed.

Where I am coming from:
M.S. in Computer Science, Artificial Intelligence
35 years studying multiple notations for logic -- deductive, approximations logics, non-monotonic logics, and machine algorithms
B.A in Classical Languages and Literature, Ancient Greek
I have held to a high church theology for 40+ years, and consider myself a Christian
I have registered a manuscript called "Logic for Christians" with the Library of Congress in 2022, about 430 pages

My proposal for a forum:

1. I am NOT approaching this topic from a vacuum, or as a free-for-all.
2. I would post major propositions/topics about Christianity AND logic, and invite discussions.
3. Topics that I pose for discussion, would be rooted in an updated fusion of modern Symbolic Logic, and philosophical Moral Theory.
4. I would use a logical "pseudocode" that is acceptable to lay people who have not had a college 200 course in Logic.
5. I would stick to the topic of the structure of formal logic, as opposed to the debate of theological positions, although, I would give examples of theological arguments, as examples of how logical propositions are encoded.
6. I would use some copyrighted quotes, in order to protect the integrity of copyrighted material.

(Even after writing all this, I would expect Christians from an anti-intellectual background to misunderstand what I propose, or to disagree with the topics that I present for discussion. Many Christians have heard a lot of vocabulary about "logic" or "being logical", but are not using modern definitions, and still cannot interface with the modern hard sciences, and other applied logics. I expect these misunderstandings, but will be polite.)

Stephen Wuest. July 28th, 2023

Hi Team,

I am a Christian. Recently I purchased a new house by the grace of God and Christ. I purchased using home loan. I need to pay EMI. When I try to rent the house, some of my Christian friends were telling me that I need to rent the house only to Christians. They tell as that God gave this land and building and if you rent it for unbelievers they will do their worship here. This will make you as "you did wrong before God".

I am in India. The percentage of Christians is 2% and the probability of getting Christian tenants is low.

What can I decide. Can anyone tell using Bible verses / passages.

Thanks,

In this world, many people suffer from physical, intellectual, developmental, or mental disabilities, such as OCD, PTSD, bipolar, ADHD, Autism, Down Syndrome, split personality disorder, etc. How should we see them in God's family?

God loves them, John 3:

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

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They have the Paraclete dwell in them when they are born of the Spirit. This connects them to the body of Christ, 1 Corinthians 12:

14 For the body does not consist of one member but of many. ...
21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you,” nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23and on those parts of the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, 24which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it, 25that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.

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That's the spiritual reality in the body of Christ.

We look forward to the day of recreation, Philippians 3:

20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it, we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21s who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body,

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No more disabilities.

Jesus will reward every one of us, Matthew 20:

15 "Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?" 16 So the last will be first, and the first last.

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When we look at the big picture, in the end, God is just.

Trump has just put out a PLEA video, BEGGING Congress to investigate the "corrupt FBI" and "corrupt Department of Justice" (basically cops about Federal crimes) for DARING to come after him.

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1. Congress makes laws - they don't enforce them. Trump's just revealed he's doesn't even understand the separation of powers!
2. He's claiming they're guilty of "election interference" - as if being a candidate in an election race means you're immune from the law. So if I stab someone in America and the cops come to get me, can I say "Stand down boys - now I'm running for President!"
3. Oh, and "Biden is the most corrupt President in America's history." But the Republicans can't find ANY dirt on him!
4. The psychological term for Trump's behaviour right now is PROJECTION - where you project all your worries about yourself onto the people around you! Trump is corrupt, dangerous, guilty of election interference himself, and going to be in jail before the election. I can't help enjoying this - does that make me petty?

God Makes A Way​

'And pray for us, too, that God may open a door for our message, so that we may proclaim the mystery of Christ, for which I am in chains.' - Colossians 4:3 (NIV)

Think of God opening the way through a problem in your life. Christian preacher, educator, and philanthropist George Müller said, “We must pray patiently until we obtain an answer." Your prayers can move mountains and make the impossible possible. Pray patiently with steadfast faith.

Almighty God, I put all my trust in You.

Jeremiah 23:23-24 ESV


Now, I am going to apply this more broadly than the passage probably does because it applies, in truth, more broadly in our world today, especially among those professing faith in Jesus Christ but who are still walking in sin. So many people have this idea or this false perception that if they sin in secret that somehow God can’t see when they sin. Or even if they believe he can, they shut that out of their thinking when they want to commit sin against the Lord and against other humans, as though God can’t see.

Some people are even teaching today that once you “believe” in Jesus (with a faith which is rarely biblically defined), and so all your sins are now forgiven, that God can’t even see when you sin anymore, but all he sees when he looks at you, even if you are steeped in sin, is Jesus. That is a lie from hell! For if he could no longer see when we sin then we would have to declare a large part of the teachings in the New Testament as false teachings, which they are not.

But the way that we know that God can still see when we sin is by reading the teachings of the New Testament. The apostles were regularly pointing out the Christians’ sins and were calling them to forsake their sins and to follow Jesus in obedience. And they were regularly warning them, too, that if they continued living in sin, making sin their practice, and not holiness and obedience to the Lord, that they would not have eternal life with God. So obviously God can see our sins, and he will judge sinful rebellion.

[Matt 7:21-23; Lu 9:23-26; Jn 6:35-58; Jn 15:1-11; Rom 1:18-32; Rom 2:6-8; Rom 6:1-23; Rom 8:1-14; 1 Co 6:9-10; 2 Co 5:10; Gal 5:16-21; Gal 6:7-8; Eph 5:3-6; Col 1:21-23; Col 3:5-11; 1 Jn 1:5-10; 1 Jn 2:3-6; 1 Jn 3:4-10; Heb 10:23-31; 1 Co 10:1-22; Heb 3:1-19; Heb 4:1-13; 1 Pet 1:17-21; Rev 21:8,27; Rev 22:14-15]

Jeremiah 23:25-32 ESV


Okay, so what is this talking about? Is this an indictment against people sharing their dreams with others? No! Is this an indictment against God speaking to people in dreams, using their dreams as parables to go along with where they are reading in Scripture to give them a broader or more specific understanding and application of the Scripture to their individual lives? No! For we read in Acts 2:14-18 where Peter explained to the people that in the last days God’s people would dream dreams and see visions.

So, what is the indictment here? And were their dreams the kind we have when we are sleeping? First I will answer the second question. A dream can be a vision which can also be a goal, ambition, desire, and business plan. For it can be your goal for what you want your business to be in the future. And it seems most “churches” here in America are being patterned after business plans and goals and visions for how to “grow their churches,” and for how to “draw in large crowds of people from the world.”

And a dream can be something just made up in someone’s own mind, which they concocted, which is their own idea, or it could be someone else’s concoction and someone else’s idea which they are then sharing as their own. So it doesn’t have to be a literal dream like we would have in the night, but it could be just a thought or an idea or a notion, and it can be that they claim it is from God when it is not from God because it is against God and against his word and against his will and purposes for his people.

So, what was wrong with the dreams? For this is not an indictment against all dreams. It was that they were prophesying lies, but what kind of lies? They were willful lies for the intended purpose to make God’s people forget his name by their dreams that they tell one another. So the intention of the telling of these dreams was to deliberately deceive the people and it was to turn them away from the Lord. They were those who were prophesying lying dreams in order to lead God’s people astray from their devotion to God.

So, the indictment is not against dreams, in general, nor against the telling of dreams, nor against God using dreams as a way of communicating with his people. But if God does speak to us through dreams, sometimes, the dreams should not speak lies against God’s words, nor against his divine will and purpose for our lives, nor against us having to live morally pure, godly, upright, honest, and faithful lives to God, in obedience to him. But they should point us to Christ’s cross and to obedient walks of faith in Christ.

For we are to speak God’s Word faithfully, and not in lies and deceptions in order to lead people away from God and away from the truth of his word. And our spiritual leaders are not to be sharing with us their own imaginations and their own goals and plans for God’s church, or those of others who are also trying to lead God’s people away from holy and godly living in order that they might follow after the ways of man and of the flesh, instead. For that is where the real danger lies.

I Will Lift My Eyes

An Original Work / December 12, 2012
Based off Psalms 121-125

I will lift my eyes to my Lord Most High.
My help comes from Him, who saved me from sin.
He will not let your foot slip, and He who watches will not sleep.
Our Lord watches over you, and your life He will keep.
I will lift my eyes to my Lord Most High.
My help comes from Him, who saved me from sin.
I give thanks to Him.

I will lift my eyes to my God in heav’n.
I look to the Lord. My sins, He’s forgiv’n.
Because of His great love for us, He made us alive with Christ.
Through the kindness of our Savior, He gave us new life.
I will lift my eyes to my God in heav’n.
I look to the Lord. My sins, He’s forgiv’n;
My home, now in heav’n.

Praise be to the Lord, who is on our side.
Our help found in Him. He gives peace within.
Those who trust will ne’er be shaken. God will supply all we need.
Our Lord has done great things for us. He’s our friend, indeed!
Praise be to the Lord, who is on our side.
Our help found in Him. He gives peace within.
I can count on Him.

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"Ray Epps" the supposed oath keeper leader from Arizona, he is seen in the clip attached below actually fighting Capitol police at the barricades, also recorded as yelling "we are going into the Capitol", "Epps" is seen on a high scaffold leading and directing people to cross the barricades and fill the Capitol?

The FBI had Epps on their most wanted list for 6 months and he was mysteriously removed as seen in the clip, all this plus more and "No Charges" have been filed against "Ray Epps" as to date, 2.5+ years and waiting?

Many claim Epps is an FBI asset, and after watching the actions by Epps in the clip and not being charged with crimes, it makes you wonder about their claims?
,
I'm not promoting a conspiracy as many would falsely claim, these are actual clips, questions, and statements, made in congress Ted Cruz, Tom Cotton, and others on the record, factual before one's eyes

Hard to believe the many individuals that received jail time for entering the capitol building, that were waved in by the Capitol police, and this man "Ray Epps" isn't charged with crimes, what's going on?

The Clip, Best Ray Epps Compilation

Pray for the healing of my tooth and for my other health problems to be resolved and for peace of mind. Amen

If baptism saves I don't understand how baptizing babies could be efficacious. It seems to say that the baby is saved because of the faith and actions of their parents, and not their own faith and love for God. How does that make sense?

I feel like I'm missing something here. The EWG (Environmental Working Group) has a list of cities and data on water contaminants, but in the search it seems like the cities link to the utilities of other cities that aren't connected. For example in Michigan, West Branch gives links for Summit Township, and Highland Park. Cities pretty far across the state.



Might it be that these cities own the utilities of the other city? That doesn't seem right. Am I missing something here? Has anyone used this site before for environmental data? If not, are there any better resource that someone might recommend?

Thanks.

New Superintendent Mike Miles announced earlier this summer that librarian and media specialist positions would be eliminated at the 28 original schools being overhauled under his reform program, New Education System (NES).

Miles said the decision partly comes from "prioritizing resources to meet specific outcomes, including closing the achievement gap, raising student proficiency, and preparing kids for the future."

Former library spaces at some schools will be converted into rooms where students who misbehave will be relocated to watch lessons virtually, work alone, or in groups with differentiated lessons. Books will remain on shelves and students will still be able to borrow books on a honor code system.

"Libraries will be available to students who are dropped off at school before classes begin, or after school before they go home," according to HISD's statement.

Hunter’s apparent confirmation in the courtroom that he made more than a half million dollars from a Chinese company directly contradicts President Biden’s previous denials.

"My son has not made money in terms of this thing about, what are you talking about, China," Biden told then-President Donald Trump during the October 2020 debate.

"The only guy who made money from China is this guy," Biden said at the time, referring to Trump. "He’s the only one. Nobody else has made money from China."
Should we be surprised?

Jul. 27, 2023 | Pakistan

• Protests Threaten Christians Across the Country​

  [10] prayers in [1] nation have been posted for Haroon Shahzad.
  
  After a June 28 incident in Sweden in which pages from the Quran were publicly burned, protests have swept across Pakistan. The prime minister urged the organization of large rallies and convened a joint parliamentary session on July 7 to protest the burning. During these rallies, angry protesters desecrated crosses and insulted Christianity. Christians across the country are bracing for attacks. Read More.

• Jul. 27, 2023 | Laos​

  Teacher's Faithful Witness Leads to Job Loss​

  [9] prayers in [1] nation have been posted for Nyok.
  
  Nyok has taught for 14 years, serving the last six years as director of her village's elementary school. A jealous coworker cursed Nyok, and she began to experience pain. When she prayed to accept Christ, the pain disappeared. Word spread at school that she was a Christian, and Nyok was warned by her administrators, the district education director and the Ministry of Education that, because her job is a government position, she could not follow a "western" religion. Nyok shared her testimony and refused to renounce her faith in Christ. Read More.

• Jul. 27, 2023 | Burkina Faso​

  Pastor Murdered by Islamist Extremists​

  [10] prayers in [1] nation have been posted for Pastor Hamidou.
  
  Hamidou felt the call of God to spread the gospel. So he left the safety of his home in Ouagadougou, the capital of Burkina Faso, to take the gospel to the northern part of his nation. Though radical Islamists are active in that region, he moved there with his family and planted a church. Read More.

Yes, I mean, you all sort of want to feel better about yourself since you sin, and you want closeness, to a real person, but you never really get it because everyone`s busy, but let`s, say there`s a place, where you can just be yourself and talk normally to others, and have something to eat, or drink, just being yourself, I know this place doesn`t exist except from fantasies, but I made something today for you, is this at the same level as being with Jesus, himself, it`s located in Norway, I painted it, and put up some lanterns:

House lawmakers clashed Thursday over gender transition medical treatments for children, which are on the rise despite criticism that the procedures are damaging, irreversible and performed on confused adolescents.

Chloe Cole, diagnosed with gender dysphoria at 12, testified before the committee. She was treated by Kaiser Permanente “gender specialists” in the San Francisco Bay Area from ages 13 to 17 and underwent a double mastectomy at age 16. Ms. Cole reverted to identifying as female a year later and is now an outspoken advocate against gender transition procedures for children.

“I used to believe that I was born in the wrong body and the adults in my life whom I trusted affirmed my belief and caused me lifelong, irreversible harm,” said Ms. Cole, who turned 19 on Thursday. “I speak to you today as a victim of one of the biggest medical scandals in the history of the United States of America. I speak to you in the hope that you will have the courage to bring this scandal to an end and ensure that other vulnerable teenagers, children and young adults don’t go through what I went through.”

I doubt it. Luke 16:

22The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried, 23and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

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This was supposed to have happened before the resurrection of the last day and the final judgment. I believe that after a person dies, he stays physically dead until the physical resurrection on the last day.

I found another factor on Wiki:

We have in fact one of the cases where the background to the teaching is more probably found in non-biblical sources.
— I. Howard Marshall, The New International Greek Testament Commentary: The Gospel of Luke, p. 634

Some scholars—e.g., G. B. Caird,[36] Joachim Jeremias,[37] Marshall,[38] Hugo Gressmann,[39]—suggest the basic storyline of The Rich Man and Lazarus was derived from Jewish stories that had developed from an Egyptian folk tale about Si-Osiris.[40][41] Richard Bauckham is less sure,[42]

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Similar parables were told by rabbis around Jesus' time.

I don't think the story of Lazarus and the rich man was literal/physical. It is a parable to teach morals.

Hi everyone, I just ran across this on the internet, it is pretty slick. It is a solar generator in the form of a briefcase, it has 2 fold-out solar arrays and will charge up in the sunlight and then you can carry it to wherever you need power and hook it up, it would be just the ticket in the event there was a lengthy power outage or natural disaster! I could not find the price on this but if it is reasonably cheap I may pick one up! If you want to have a look the link to the website is here:

Briefcase Backup

139 people were arrested in a sweeping multi-agency crackdown on child sex abuse and child pornography this month, the Los Angeles Police Department announced Wednesday.

The crackdown, dubbed Operation Online Guardian, involved over 100 agencies that comprise LAPD’s Internet Crimes Against Children (ICAC) Task Force.

“Vulnerable children were rescued from further abuse, and victims who had been silenced by the atrocious crimes of child sexual abuse found their voices restored,” LAPD said in a statement.

--

Great police work!

Jesus warned about Judas, Matthew 26:

24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.

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Nevertheless, later:

47 While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived. With him was a large crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent from the chief priests and the elders of the people. 48Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: “The one I kiss is the man; arrest him.” 49Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, “Greetings, Rabbi!” and kissed him.
50 Jesus replied, “Do what you came for, friend.”

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Was Jesus being sarcastic? Was it a cultural idiom?

Jesus called a paralyzed man "friend" in Luke 5:

18 Some men came carrying a paralyzed man on a mat and tried to take him into the house to lay him before Jesus. 19When they could not find a way to do this because of the crowd, they went up on the roof and lowered him on his mat through the tiles into the middle of the crowd, right in front of Jesus.
20 When Jesus saw their faith, he said, “Friend, your sins are forgiven.”

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I don't think Jesus was being sarcastic. In Middle Eastern culture today, it is not uncommon to call even a stranger "friend". It fulfilled Psalms‬ ‭41:9‬

Even my close friend, someone I trusted, one who shared my bread, has turned against me.

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I think Jesus was applying the term to Judas ambiguously. I think that was how Judas understood it.

I've been feeling horrible since May. I broke up with my bf on May 13th, and I've been feeling miserable ever since. I was 27 when we started dating, and we dated for a little over a year. My age is relevant because I waited 27 years for a boyfriend. And what did I get? I got a man who, while he was patient and kind, also had morals that I just couldn't live with. While we never went "all the way" physically, there were several times where we did go farther than I was comfortable with. But I was convinced if I just stayed with him long enough, we'd get married, but after we broke up he told me he wasn't close to marriage.

He moved on about a month after we broke up, started talking to another girl and just the last 2 weeks now he's been bringing her to church.

It was pretty much a mutual breakup, but he left me because my anxiety was too much for him to handle. He told me he cared about me and that I'm going to make someone else happy. And I've tried to meet new people; I went on my first date a couple days ago. I ended up not being attracted to him but also, I wanted him to have the same opinions on some stuff as my ex. I wanted him to be my ex in some ways, but not others.

I can't seem to move on. I'm angry and depressed.

I don't want to go to another church, even though I see him all happy with another girl when I go to my current church. I am dreading Sundays. And throughout the week I just get consumed with anger and sadness. And the anger isn't just "grr someone cut me off in traffic." It's so intense ans powerful, I feel like I'm drowning.

I miss my ex! Even though it was a bad match! It's been over 2 months now and it just hurts so bad. I waited 27 years to find someone and I got hurt, badly. I'm so tired and I want to feel better and I'm just not really feeling better. I do see a therapist but it's just so hard to continue to go through each day.

What Member(s) of the Trinity Live in Us?​

Scripture is clear that each individual member of the Trinity lives in us:

• That God the Father lives in us is the subject of Eph 4:6, 2 Cor 6:16, and 1 John 4:12.
• That God the Son lives in us is the subject of Rom 8:10, Gal 2:20, Eph 3:17, and Col 1:27.
• That God the Holy Spirit lives in us is the subject of 1 Cor 6:19, 2 Tim 1:14, and James 4:5.

There are also several places in Scripture that the members of the trinity are mentioned in combination as living in us.

• Rom 8:11 says, “The Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead” lives in us.
• 1 Cor 3:16 and Ephesians 4:30 say the “Spirit of God” lives in us.
• 1 Thes 4:8 says God has “given us His Holy Spirit.”
• Gal 4:6 says, “God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son” to live in us.
• Rom 8:9 says the “Spirit of God” and the “Spirit of Christ” live in us.

In my mind, the hardest one of these to fully grasp is that God the Father Himself lives in us. But it isn’t hard to accept because Jesus told us in John 14:23 that after His resurrection, He and His Father would come to us and make our hearts Their home.

The upshot of all these things, of course, is that it does not matter what name we use for God when we say He lives in our hearts. We might use "God", "the Father", "Jesus", "the Holy Spirit", "the Spirit of God", or "the Spirit of Christ". But no matter what name we use, when we say, “God lives in our hearts,” we do not intend to exclude any member of the trinity. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit live in our hearts.

Where Does This Take Us?​

The sheer magnitude of this truth gives us pause and fills us with a sense of awe and wonder. According to Scripture, God’s presence in our hearts is our path to knowing Him (John 14), our path to wisdom and knowledge (Col 2), our path to all truth (John 14, 16), our path to knowing the deep things of God that are otherwise unknowable (1 Cor 2), and our path to receiving other things from out of the vast resources of God (John 16).

I hope this thread will increase our appreciation for the God who lives in our hearts and who plays the most vital role in our spiritual growth and maturity. Unfortunately, we also will likely be confronted by those who think God has withdrawn from active participation in our lives and instead points us to the Bible to get everything we need. Fortunately, God is still at work in us, and the Scriptures are on our side.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened

Doing an exact phrase search in the KJV for 'holy place' yields the following results pertaining to the NT. Way too many to list pertaining to the OT. So, only going to list the ones pertaining to the NT.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

Acts 6:13 And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:

Obviously referring to the 2nd temple per this context.

Acts 21:28 Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.

Obviously referring to the 2nd temple per this context.


Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Involving a temple, yet, not a literal man made one though, since Jesus obviously didn't do any of that in the 2nd temple that was still standing at the time.

Hebrews 9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

Referring to literal temples in general, not the 2nd temple in particular, though the 2nd temple obviously involved those things as well. Except high priests also did this before there was even this 2nd temple.

If nothing else, in the NT, Hebrews 9:12 proves that the holy place is not always involving a man made temple.

What happens if we factor the following in?

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


Should we assume the temple of God meant here, it is a man made temple, or should we assume it is meaning a temple not made with hands? If we assume that it's the latter, could what is recorded in verse 4 be describing the abomination of desolation, standing in the holy place, standing where it ought not? If no, one then has just made a contradiction if they assume the temple of God is meaning a temple not made with hands, then insist it would not be abominable for one who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God--that this is suppose to naturally occur like this, thus no abomination involved whatsoever.

IOW, the logic would be, an abomination involving the holy place can only be meaning in an obsolete temple that is no longer the holy place once Christ died and rose(a contradiction in even this kind of reasoning), but can never be involving a temple not made with hands? Once again, as if it's a common thing, thus expected, that what is recorded in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 naturally occurs in the temple not made with hands, nothing abominable about that whatsoever. Yet, if one agrees it's an abominable act, yet disagrees that Matthew 24:15 is involving 2 Thessalonians 2:4, what then? It's far more reasonable to agree that 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is involving an abominable act, but that the holy place per Matthew 24:15 is not meaning the temple not made with hands, it is meaning the temple made with hands, that it is still the holy place up until it is literally destroyed?

An abomination in an obsolete temple vs an abomination in a temple that is not obsolete whatsoever, which makes better sense? Apparently, the former, if many of these interpreters around here and elsewhere are interpreting Matthew 24:15 correctly, that it is involving the 2nd temple until it is literally destroyed. Imagine that, once it is destroyed though, which did happen in 70 AD, now all of a sudden like, the holy place can finally mean the temple not made with hands. Wonder why it couldn't mean that at the time of Christ's death and resurrection but can only mean that after the 2nd temple is destroyed? After all, the holy place per Matthew 24:15 is meaning the 2nd temple before it was destroyed, according to many interpreters who are either Preterists or agree with Preterists.

I've been feeling horrible since May. I broke up with my bf on May 13th, and I've been feeling miserable ever since. I was 27 when we started dating, and we dated for a little over a year. My age is relevant because I waited 27 years for a boyfriend. And what did I get? I got a man who, while he was patient and kind, also had morals that I just couldn't live with. While we never went "all the way" physically, there were several times where we did go farther than I was comfortable with. But I was convinced if I just stayed with him long enough, we'd get married, but after we broke up he told me he wasn't close to marriage.

He moved on about a month after we broke up, started talking to another girl and just the last 2 weeks now he's been bringing her to church.

It was pretty much a mutual breakup, but he left me because my anxiety was too much for him to handle. He told me he cared about me and that I'm going to make someone else happy. And I've tried to meet new people; I went on my first date a couple days ago. I ended up not being attracted to him but also, I wanted him to have the same opinions on some stuff as my ex. I wanted him to be my ex in some ways, but not others.

I can't seem to move on. I'm angry and depressed.

I don't want to go to another church, even though I see him all happy with another girl when I go to my current church. I am dreading Sundays. And throughout the week I just get consumed with anger and sadness. And the anger isn't just "grr someone cut me off in traffic." It's so intense ans powerful, I feel like I'm drowning.

I miss my ex! Even though it was a bad match! It's been over 2 months now and it just hurts so bad. I waited 27 years to find someone and I got hurt, badly. I keep daydreaming about ending it, and today I was writing a "goodbye" note in my head. Again, I can't go through with it for various reasons, but I'm so tired and I want to feel better and I'm just not really feeling better. I do see a therapist but it's just so hard to continue to go through each day.