• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Believe Him

“Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight” (Proverbs 3:5-6 NIV).

Sometimes in life we have questions for which we don’t have answers. Sometimes we pray and we can’t hear God speaking, i.e. he seems silent concerning our requests. And, so we cry out for him to hear us, even though we know he does, and for him to answer. Yet, he doesn’t always give us the answers we desire, nor does he explain all of his ways to us.

Sometimes he just says “Trust me;” “Believe me;” “Rest in me.” And, he reminds us that his ways are greater than our ways and his thoughts greater than our thoughts, i.e. he doesn’t think and work like we do. He has purposes for what we go through in this life far beyond our human comprehension. We may even desire the right things, but he may have planned for us to go through injustice or heartache, and so he asks us to just trust him that he knows best.

Believe Him

An Original Work / July 15, 2013

My heart cries: Lord, won’t You hear me
Seeking You for the answers
To my heartache and questions
I have concerning my life?
Speak, Lord, to me right now.

“Oh, dear one, why don’t you trust Me
With your life’s circumstances?
Give your all on the altar
In submission of your will
To My purpose for you.

“Surrender your life completely
To your Lord and your Savior.
He has all things planned for you
For His glory and honor.
He’ll work all things for good.

“Believe Him. He will fulfill all
Of His promises to you
For your life and your future.
Trust Him. Rest in His love.
He’ll give you peace from above.”

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What does the ELCA church do and what do they believe?

So I have a few serious questions about the ELCA churches and what they do and what they believe. By posting this, I do not mean to offend anyone, who may be an ELCA pastor, server of some sort, or anyone who is in an ELCA congregation, I love you like I love everyone else. Not too long ago, I heard rumors that all ELCA churches not only teach contrary to what the bible says, but they also marry homosexuals and allow people, who are actively living in sin, such as homosexuality, adultery, fornication, and transgenderism serve in the church or lead or teach in the church. I also heard that they pay for mothers to have abortions. I hope it's not true and I can't imagine any Christian church allowing sinful things to happen or encouraging sin, especially if they know what the bible says. I understand we need to love everyone, including the LGBTQ and the people, who get abortions, but wouldn't we want to help people turn away from their sins rather than encouraging them to stay in their sins? Wouldn't correcting our brothers and sisters be the way to show them love rather than enabling their sinful behaviors? This has me concerned because I have a friend, who I guess is Lutheran and used to go to St. John's in Jim Thorpe, PA, which I found out is an ELCA church. I remember him saying he didn't go there all the time, but I know now he can't go there or anywhere because he has stage 3 lung cancer and he can't be around anybody so he doesn't get exposed to anything else, he's doing kemo right now. This church he went to is the church that's using raffle tickets to pay for his treatment. Anyway, I'm worried that if these things I heard ar true, that he's getting the wrong message about what God says and what he wants and what he doesn't want and I'm worried if he goes back there (if it's true), he'll keep hearing the wrong messages and will never truely know the Lord. I know he is not gay, however I worry that he'll think there's nothing wrong with that or with abortions. I also worry for the ELCA churches themselves and hope they know the Lord and if the rumors are true, I hope they would repent, change their ways, and teach God's word the right way, not allow sin, and help people out of their sins in a loving way, but if they're not true, then that's good. I also worry for the congregations of those churches that they, too, are getting the wrong messages, if it is true. I guess what I want to know is are these things I heard true? If they are, how do I convince my friend to not go back there and find a bible-based church, unless or until they turn from their evil ways and repent? Also, I would like to either do a basket for the raffle tickets or give money to that church for his treatment, but if the rumors are true, I really wouldn't want to go near that church, so would do you think I should do in that situation? And if they're not true, what is the truth and what do ELCA churches really believe, stand for, and do? I did invite my friend to listen to the sermons from my church on facebook, since he can't go anywhere now and he didn't say anything back, but I also don't know, if I should wait to address this with him till after he heals or talk to him about this now while he has cancer, that's if what I heard is true.

Mary and the early Church

Friends I am interested in why Mary the Mother of Jesus hardly gets a mention by Paul and didn't seem to have a significant role in the early church.

These are the three verses with the name Mary - some of which may be referring to others.

Acts 1:14
All these were continually devoting themselves with one mind to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.

Acts 12:12
And when he realized this, he went to the house of Mary, the mother of John, who was also called Mark, where many were gathered together and were praying.

Romans 16:6
Greet Mary, who has worked hard for you.

Do we have any other credible evidence that Mary had a role in the church ?

Biden drained US Oil Reserves and Shot Debt up by 5 Trillion - IE - Bidenomics

Biden drained strategic oil reserves to the lowest - since 1984


Biden added 5 Trillion to US debt to help with his admin
Biden spiked National Debt up by 5 Trillion

Thank you "Bidenomics".

America now has a chance to say "Thank you , may I please have another?"

===========================

Under the Trump Admin - US unemployment hit a 50-year low of 3.5 percent in December 2019.
The price of gasoline has been rising fairly consistently since the end of April 2020, when it was selling for $1.77 a gallon, the lowest weekly price under Trump

to bless you

RESPONDING TO THE PROPHET

```TEXT:DEUTERONOMY 18:14-22```

```KEY VERSE:``` _"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him" (DEUTERONOMY 18:18).

Man's response to God's servants over the centuries points to the depth of their obedience to Him. Receiving them and obeying all the commandments He gives His messengers to deliver to man would indicate respect and honour for Him. On the other hand, rejecting those who bring His word amounts to rejecting Him, an action that would not go without commensurate punishment.

While the children of Israel approached the Promised Land, the Lord reminded them that although Moses, their leader would not be with them in their new country, a greater Shepherd would be provided, who would not only be available for Israel, but for humanity throughout all generations. The Lord promised a Prophet greater than all the previous ones and those to come. He said He would "put [His] words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that [He] shall command him."

Jesus Christ is that Prophet. No other one before or after Him has matched the description in our passage. He acted with the authority of the Father in heaven. He spoke as no man ever spoke. He performed astonishing miracles that broke all records. He told the world He could forgive sins here on earth, thus proving that He possessed divine powers. He predicted He would die for sinful man and rise again the third day, and it was fulfilled.

Since Christ met all these conditions needed to believe in Him as the true Prophet of God, our reaction to Him is to submit, believe and obey His words. One of His declarations shortly before He left the world was that He would go to prepare mansions in heaven for those who believe in Him and then return to take them to live there forever. As believers, we are to "occupy till [He] come".

```THOUGHT FOR THE DAY:``` _Believe in Jesus Christ, the final Prophet.

```THE BIBLE IN ONE YEAR:``` LEVITICUS 12-14

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Sometimes You Just Keep Getting Rejected While Passing Out Gospel Tracts

Out a couple weeks ago passing out Gospel Tracts at the Medina Ice Festival and I kept getting rejected and then I saw someone with a truck rushing to get that parking spot! Hey, sometimes you get to see some interesting things!
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Biden to announce the setting up of a temporary Mediterranean port to deliver Gaza aid

When it is ready, the U.S. military will initially lead the operation, but other countries and groups are expected to join in, the officials said.
This is such a bad idea. American lives should come first, not politics. Americans are going to be involved, although the article says no troops will land in Gaza. If the United States is involved in Gaza it should be to help return American hostages.
  • Winner
Reactions: Landon Caeli

"AFFECTIONS"

Colossians 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

Jonathan Edwards appealed to peoples 'affections," of which he had a far greater grasp of their meaning than I. However, this is worthy of exploration, for as it is written: "Set your AFFECTION on things above, not on things on the earth."
It immediately goes on to say in the next verse, "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God." Thus, the "killing" of one affection, while yet the quickening of another affection that hungers for the things of God; the things that are of God, yea, ALL things that are of God.
Indeed, David when preparing for his son Solomon to build the temple, said, "Moreover, because I have set my affection to the house of my God, I have of mine own proper good, of gold and silver, which I have given to the house of my God, over and above all that I have prepared for the holy house. (ratza= delight, favor, pleasure) -1 Chronicles 29:3
He further prays, "I know also, my God, that thou triest the heart, and hast pleasure in uprightness. As for me, in the uprightness of mine heart I have willingly offered all these things: and now have I seen with joy thy people, which are present here, to offer willingly unto thee. O Lord God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, our fathers, keep this for ever in the imagination of the thoughts of the heart of thy people, and prepare their heart unto thee: And give unto Solomon my son a perfect heart, to keep thy commandments, thy testimonies, and thy statutes, and to do all these things..." (1 Chronicles 29:17-19)
See how David in his own affections, his delights, and pleasure, not only set them up on the house of God, but has gone over and above?

Of Titus it is said his inward affection was more abundant toward the Corinthians: that being also translated elsewhere as "bowels" - not as we think of bowels today, but of a deep inward part, the seat of the tender emotions. 2 Corinthians 7:15 "And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him."
Gal 5:24 "And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. This is "pathema", as "pathos" : an affection of the mind, to suffer; a passionate desire. But one does suffer when they have such an affection unfulfilled: even a pining away due to an unfulfilled affection - a longing, which is not sinful itself, as one were missing a loved one who is parted from them. It can become a harmful affection, as Galatians warns, when it's an obsession, such a sinful relationship of the flesh, an addiction where one pines for the things they're addicted to, whether or not a physical addiction like nicotine, alcohol, drugs, or a psychological addiction such as pornography, gambling, thrill seeking, even overworking. After all, "pathos" is where we get the word pathological from.

"Splanchon" is a Greek word often translated "bowels," heart or tender mercies, is also affections, so that we see in Philippians 1:8 "For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ." That's the deep inner compassion and longing for out of pure desire. And here, the Apostle is referring to Christs affection, thus showing we are to be in Christ, put on Christ, and Christ in us: the union of Christ and the believer, as the Scriptures so command.
And Philippians 2:1-2, "If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind."

In Philemon 20 Paul writes, "Yea, brother, let me have joy of thee in the Lord: refresh my bowels in the Lord." - Refresh my bowels, that is affections: that he is beseeching, which is like urgently and fervently asking someone to do something- he is beseeching Philemon to receive Onesimus even as he, Paul, himself (vs 17) This is an example of true deep fellowship and Christian brotherhood; That is hugely lacking in the church today. In fact, there seems to be a "wall of separation" among believers: a distance, and it is not of God!
I can write this in tears, that I have been in churches where the Pastor will tell everyone to shake everyone's hand, or hug someone, or hug 10 people, and only a few handshakes or hugs are exchanged. And why should the Pastor even have to tell the congregation to do this? Wasn't that way 35 - 40 years ago. Oh, how this affection of loving the brethren is so lacking!
People just stare strait forward, even avoid others, or they get in their little cliques, or just leave in a hurry to go about their day. It seems some just can't wait to get out of church. They go, they feed, they leave. Almost like a dog or a cat rushing to it's bowl, gobbling down the food, and when done, off they go. And, I've noticed this in MANY a church, of differing denominations. And I've got to admit, I'm sometimes guilty of this myself, though I do try to reach out to those around me, nor am I the first out the door. More often I like to remain and fellowship if possible.
I just don't see too much of Philippians 2: the fellowship of the Spirit, bowels, or affections of mercies, having the same love, being of one accord. No wonder the church is weak, and the world calls us hypocrites. Sometimes, you know they are not just mocking, they are making a rational observation that happens to be correct! John 13:34-35, Jesus says, "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."

You know in the 1980s I saw this a lot more? Maybe from 85 till the mid 90s. Everyone seemed truly glad to see one another. Pastor rarely had to tell anyone to shake hands or hug because it was naturally being done, and there was genuine fellowship, and it was sweet. But alas, as it is written, the love of many has waxed cold, they are without natural affection: in fact Paul goes on to warn in the last days they will also be heady and high-minded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God. And the Scriptures warn about being haughty, thinking yourself above others, conceited...
So what must we do with 1 John 2:8-9? "He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him." Or 3:18 "My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth." And how about 1 John 4:21 "And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also..."
I didn't even expect this message to go here where it did. I think it turned down this road at Philemon, which I was led to go to specifically because I rarely go to it. I set out to explore affections, and to explore some various aspects of affections. I stuck to the Bible only, and did not consult any other preachers written works, though I did use the Strongs and the Vines dictionaries and lexicon. I only made mention of Jonathan Edwards appealing to affections at the beginning.
Yet I fear, and it is a grave concern, that many may not be in Christ, for their affections are not in the right places, but rather on self: heady, high-minded, even haughty. Spiritual pride can be a soul crusher, and I know this from experience. I speak to myself as much as anyone. Why are so many without compassion? "For they'll know we are Christians by our love, by our love: yes they'll know we are Christians by our love..." The song goes. We used to sing that all the time in the 80s. I've heard it in church once in the past 7 years, maybe twice. That song goes right along with John 13 we read earlier, " By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."
Then there's John 15:12 & 17, "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you...These things I command you, that ye love one another." In fact in John this thing is commanded thrice, which shows the extreme importance of it. Jesus was explicitly giving it as a COMMAND that His followers love one another.

Look at Ruth 1:16-17. She is moved in affections when she bonds with her mother in law Naomi. In this same way we should bond both with the LORD, and there should also be such a bond of fellowship in the local assembly of the saints. Ruth 1:16-17 "And Ruth said, Intreat me not to leave thee, or to return from following after thee: for whither thou goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will lodge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God: Where thou diest, will I die, and there will I be buried: the Lord do so to me, and more also, if ought but death part thee and me." Powerful! Powerful stuff here!
We see in Acts 2:44-47, "And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved."

Oh now I must pray Isaiah 29:24, "They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine." And, Deuteronomy 16:20 "That which is altogether just shalt thou follow..." Is not Christ calling upon His people to be in more unity: is He not stirring the affections of some, and I would pray all? Let Him in! Quench not the Spirit of the Living God! O Spirit of the Living God, fall afresh on me! There is a worthy song to sing right there.
I will leave off with 1 Peter 3:8, "Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous..." Amen.

  • Note:
I only looked up Jonathan Edwards Affections after writing this, so that this message could be purely in the Spirit, where He wanted to take it, which I'm convinced is what happened.
Here is what Edwards believed: Edwards is clear: 'the affections are no other, than the more vigorous and sensible exercises of the inclination and will of the soul' (Edwards 1957: 96). An affection, for Edwards, is not an emotion, but is a certain kind of willing (ie., a vigorous and sensible willing)
The soul is capable of perception and speculation, which he names as the understanding, and the soul inclines or is averse to what is beheld, which he names as an act of inclination or will. While he freely uses the term ‘faculties’, it is a mistake to think of the understanding and the will as ‘faculties’ that understand and will respectively; a person does not have an understanding and a will as distinct entities in the soul. Rather, persons understand and persons will. One of the important implications of this focus, Edwards claims, is that there cannot ‘be a clear distinction made between the two faculties of understanding and will, as acting distinctly and separately, in this matter’ (Edwards 1957: 272). Furthermore, the difference between a normal act of the will and an affection is simply ‘the degree and manner of exercise’ (p. 97). As an act of willing, an affection can be negative or positive, but to qualify as an ‘affection’, it must be a vigorous inclination of the will. (On the union of the body and the soul, and the bodily response to affections, see Edwards 1957: 98.) Affections are not synonymous with passions, therefore, because passions are more sudden and violent to the body (i.e. violence to the ‘animal spirits’ and the ‘motion of fluids’ according to Edwards’ understanding of human physiology), whereas affections are a more abiding movement of the will.
True religious affections are formed only through spiritual understanding or enlightening of the mind by the illumination of the Holy Spirit. True religious affections are grounded in the conviction of the historical truth of the gospel, not subjective reasonings or imaginings.
Because religious affections are only possible through the infusion of the Spirit in the soul, when issues of discernment arise, one cannot simply address the teleology of an affection, but must attend to the inner movement of the heart. In Edwards’ words, ‘True religion is evermore a powerful thing; and the power of it appears, in the first place, in the inward exercises of it in the heart, where is the principal and original seat of it’ (Edwards 1957: 100). As a movement in the heart, and because the fount of this work is the Spirit in the soul, Edwards turns to the language of sense and perception to articulate the phenomenology of this event. The problem this creates for discernment concerns the nature of this new sense of the heart given in regeneration. He claims that there is a ‘new inward perception or sensation of their minds, entirely different in its nature and kind, from anything that ever their minds were the subjects of before they were sanctified’, and argues that this ‘new sensation’ is discovered in the ‘faculties’ of the soul but is available only through the work of the Spirit in the elect.

Homeschooling mom and Jan 6 tourist beats incumbent Republican North Carolina school superintendent in primary

North Carolina schools chief loses primary to home-schooling parent critical of ‘radical agendas’

Superintendent of Public Instruction Catherine Truitt lost Tuesday’s Republican primary to Michele Morrow, a home-schooling parent and conservative activist who has accused public schools of indoctrinating students with left-leaning views on race and gender.

[She will face a Democrat in the general election.]

Homeschooling, ‘indoctrination,’ Jan. 6: A look at NC’s new GOP superintendent candidate

Morrow, a registered nurse and former missionary, has been home-schooling her children for 16 years. Her children used to attend public schools when they lived in Texas and Colorado. They haven’t attended public schools in North Carolina.

Morrow, who describes herself as a “lifelong Christian conservative,” has made a number of social media posts that have been critical of Islam and Muslims.

In 2020, Morrow said on X that the goal of Islam is “evil” and that ”it’s a “political cult.” She also posted comments such as “ban Islam” and “ban Muslims from elected offices.” Morrow apologized for her anti-Islamic comments during her 2022 school board campaign.

Morrow was among the Trump supporters who answered his call to march on the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021 to protest the certification of Joe Biden as the winner of the 2020 presidential election.

Morrow said she [did not enter the Capitol and] left the area when ordered by the authorities, unlike other protesters who stormed the Capitol Building.

Salt Lake City Bar Under Fire for Its ‘No Zionists Allowed’ Policy

“As many are, we are horrified by the ongoing genocide in Gaza and are even more horrified to see so many Americans ignore and rationalize ethnic cleansing. That is why we are pleased to announce we are banning all zionists forever from our establishments,” the Weathered Waves bar posted on Instagram.

Its owner, former [no party; winning 7% of the vote] mayoral candidate Michael Valentine, responded to backlash by stressing that “we are banning zionists, not Jews.”

In comments to The Salt Lake Tribune, he said: “It is not antisemitic to say we are anti-genocide. That’s what we’re saying… I literally say in the post I’m not banning Jews. This is not about that.”

--

While unwise and unhelpful, this is probably within the owner's rights, as long as he's sincere that it's about banning those who espouse the political position of Zionism, rather than banning Jews.

Arise and Shine

This song is a call to arise (get up; stand up), be steadfast and persistent, and to let our lights (Jesus Christ; our salvation; the gospel; purity; and truth) shine forth from us, so that those outside of faith in Jesus Christ may come to him, to know his saving grace.

We may need this call because we have recently failed in our relationships with God and/or with others. Although we have repented, we may feel unworthy to be his servants and witnesses again. Also, we may require this exhortation because we are complacent about the fact that so many are dying without Christ and are going to hell, and/or because we are unconcerned for the spiritual condition of God’s people. So, God is saying “Wake up!”

Or, this gentle encouragement may be necessary because we are disheartened over seeing so many lost without Christ, and upon witnessing the church in such a serious state of spiritual adultery and idolatry with no apparent end in sight. Or, it could be because we have suffered much persecution, rejection and abandonment for our testimonies for Jesus Christ. Thus, sometimes, it is just hard to stand when you feel as though you are often standing alone against the giants of doubt and fear, oppression and strong opposition.

Yet, this is to encourage our hearts that God has all things under his control, that he will not abandon us, and that he has a plan and a purpose for our lives. For all we are going through, he will work it all out for the salvation of human lives and for the revival of his church, and we should thus rest in his promises, in his love, and in his sovereignty.

Arise and Shine

An Original Work / March 6, 2014
Based off Isaiah 60


Arise and shine; your Lord has come.
Allow His light to flow through you,
For many walk in wickedness.
Show them the way to life anew.
Arise and shine. Your Lord loves you.

Lift up your eyes, and look about.
Some do believe, while others doubt.
Believe in all God’s promises.
The many will, In Christ, find rest.
Lift up your eyes, and you’ll be blessed.

Arise and shine; salvation comes
To all who trust in Christ, God’s Son.
Forgiven of their sins, they’ll be,
When they repent on bended knee.
Arise and shine, so all will see.

Lift up your eyes, and see your Lord.
He will revive his church, forlorn.
Though humans have forsaken you,
They will find Christ, and walk in truth.
Lift up your eyes; God honors you.

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Red V Blue state: Crime and Safety

In an effort to not pull the California thread away from just California bashing without context, I thought we should have a thread that actually is a comparison between Red and Blue run states in regards to their safety.

Third Way

Wow. 20 years: So it's consistent. 25 states: So it's rampant

Rape rates between states:
https://www.cnn.com/2014/02/03/opinion/sutter-alaska-rape-list/index.html
It has the lists by state

Red States Have Higher Gun Death Rates Than Blue States. Here’s Why
Interesting finding:
A new study published in Journal of the American Medical Association’s Surgery found that firearm deaths are more likely in small rural towns than in major urban cities, adding to research that contradicts common belief that Democratic blue areas have higher incidences of gun-related deaths than do Republican red districts.

This one is comprehensive but quite old.
Red States Have Higher Crime Rates Than Blue States - Smart Politics


I did a search on duckduckgo as well. It gave me a lot of statistic blog analysis (take what you will) but I have not seen anyone come to the conclusion that Red states on the whole do better than Blue. Generally, there is one crime that Republicans have done a bit better than Democrats: Robbery (not sure which type of robbery is being shown). But murder, forcible rape.... these clear indicate Red states are less safe.
Fact Brief : Do red states report higher rates of violent crime than blue states? | Gigafact

I found 6 or 7 posts and they all basically said the same thing.

In All Our Persecutions

“We ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers, as is right, because your faith is growing abundantly, and the love of every one of you for one another is increasing. Therefore we ourselves boast about you in the churches of God for your steadfastness and faith in all your persecutions and in the afflictions that you are enduring.
“This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering— since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
“They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed. To this end we always pray for you, that our God may make you worthy of his calling and may fulfill every resolve for good and every work of faith by his power, so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.” (2 Thessalonians 1:3-12 ESV)

This is written to the faithful in Christ Jesus whose faith in the Lord Jesus is growing abundantly in love and in service to the Lord. Yet the faith to believe in Jesus Christ comes from God, is authored and perfected by Jesus Christ, is gifted to us by God, and is persuaded of God, so it will align with God’s will and purpose for our lives. And this faith is not of our own doing – not of the will nor of the flesh of humankind. So we don’t get to choose what that faith looks like. God does, and his word tells us what that faith looks like.

Jesus said that if anyone would come after him, he must deny self, take up his cross daily (die daily to sin and to self) and follow (obey) him. For if we hold on to our old lives of living in sin and for self, we will lose them for eternity. But if for Jesus’ sake we deny self, die daily to sin, and follow him in obedience to his commands (New Covenant), then we have eternal life in him. For he also said that not everyone who calls him “Lord” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one DOING the will of God the Father in heaven.

For Jesus died on that cross that we might die to sin and live to righteousness, and that we might live for him and no longer for self. He shed his blood for us to buy us back for God (to redeem us) out of our slavery to sin so that we will now honor God with our bodies (with our lives). And because he died we are to be crucified with him in death to sin. And because he was raised from the dead, we are to be raised with him to walk in newness of life in him, no longer as slaves to sin but as slaves to God.

And the love that we are to have for God and for one another is not human love, although that might be part of it, but it is agape love which comes from God and which prefers what God prefers, all of which is moral, upright, godly, righteous, just, honest, faithful, and obedient to the Lord and to his commandments. So when we love one another with this love we are going to care for one another and do for one another what is honest and morally pure and upright and godly and what is for our good, as God defines good.

[Hebrews 12:1-2; Ephesians 2:8-10; John 1:12-13; John 6:44; Luke 9:23-26; Matthew 7:21-23; 1 Peter 2:24; 2 Corinthians 5:15,21; 1 Corinthians 6:19-20; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-14; Ephesians 4:17-24; Titus 2:11-14; Matthew 22:34-40; John 14:15-24; John 15:10; 1 John 5:2-3]

But when we love God and our fellow humans with this kind of love, and when we have the faith in our Lord which comes from God and which results in walks of obedience to his commands, in holy living, and so we are sharing the true message of the gospel of Christ with the people of the world, and so we are also refuting the lies of the enemy which are coming against the truth, then like Jesus told us, we will be hated, rejected, cast aside as unwanted, and persecuted and mistreated for righteousness’ sake.

Yet when we live this way, in the power of God, by the grace of God, we will be counted worthy of (suitable, fitting, appropriate, proper to) the kingdom of God, for which we are suffering. For we who believe in Jesus are called, not only to live for our Lord and for his purposes, but we are called to suffer for the sake of righteousness because we are following our Lord in obedience, and because we are not living like the world, and so those who are living worldly lives will not accept us for who we are in Christ Jesus.

But one day Jesus Christ is going to return for his faithful ones, for those of us who have remained true to his word, and who have followed him in obedience, and who are living holy lives, pleasing to him, and who are no longer walking in sin. And he is going to cast judgment on all who did not obey him but who decided to go their own way, instead, and who persecuted his righteous ones. So the encouragement here is to be one who follows the Lord in obedience so that you have the hope of eternal life with God.

[Matt 5:10-12; Matt 10:16-25; Matt 24:9-14; Lu 6:22-23; Lu 21:12-19; Jn 15:1-21; Jn 16:33; Jn 17:14; Ac 14:22; Rom 5:3-5; Phil 3:7-11; 1 Pet 1:6-7; 1 Pet 4:12-17; 2 Tim 3:12; 1 Thess 3:1-5; Jas 1:2-4; 2 Co 1:3-11; Heb 12:3-12; 1 Jn 3:13; Rev 6:9-11; Rev 7:9-17; Rev 11:1-3; Rev 12:17; Rev 13:1-18; Rev 14:1-13; Rom 2:6-8; Gal 5:16-21; Gal 6:7-8; Eph 5:3-6]

All Through the Night

An Original Work / December 7, 2013
Based off Various Scriptures


Blessed are you when you’re persecuted
Because of your faith in Jesus Christ.
Blessed are you when people insult you,
And falsely say what leads folks to doubt.
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is
Great in the heavens. You’re not alone.

When you are persecuted in one place,
Flee to another. God will be there.
You will be hated by all the nations
Because you testify of God’s grace.
Many will seize you and persecute you,
And put to death the foll’wers of Christ.

Yet do not fear what humans may do to you,
For I’m with you all through the night.
I tell you, love your enemies with my love,
And forgive as I forgave you.
Pray for those who do evil against you.
Rest in my love and grace from above.

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Forum words ?

Here is a test, to see if any of the words of all of the people posting on this forum, have any benefit, or if there is none to be found ?


Israel was made as an example of resisting the Lord God's words, but the disputers were answered by Jeremiah speaking Gods word which we have now, that the remaining men of Israel would know whose words would stand, Jeremiah's words or the men of Israel who denied what God told Jeremiah for Israel.

Every man has it testified by God in Revelation, upon hearing the words of the prophecy of the book, to not add to the words, because plagues are written on the book, nor to take away from the words of the prophecy of the book, or have our part taken out of the book of life, from the things that are written in that book.



Jeremiah 44:28 Yet a small number that escape the sword shall return out of the land of Egypt into the land of Judah, and all the remnant of Judah, that are gone into the land of Egypt to sojourn there, SHALL KNOW WHOSE WORDS SHALL STAND, MINE OR THEIR'S.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that HEARETH THE WORDS of the prophecy of this book, IF ANY MAN SHALL ADD UNTO THESE THINGS, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And IF ANY MAN SHALL TAKE AWAY FROM THE WORDS OF THE BOOK of this prophecy, God shall take away his part OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE, and out of the holy city, and FROM THE THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK.




Now here is the instruction about hearing. ( all men hear the words of the prophecy of the book, to life or plagues, but how to take heed how we hear, as told about in the parable of the sower ? Luke 8:18. )

For a purpose it was given to the apostles of Jesus to know the mystery of the kingdom of God, because everyone else is also made an example or not understanding.

The ones unlike the apostles of the Lord, hear, but have not been the ones who take heed how they hear.

The peoples eyes are closed, to not see with their eyes or then understand with their heart, ( this is taking care how you hear/with your eyes open/understanding with your heart.)



Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Matthew 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Matthew 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.




Now we are all warned by God not to add or take away from the words of the prophecy of the book. Satan is the first to come immediately to any man who has any of the words of the Lord sown to them, to take away the word sown in their hearts. ( so they cant take heed how they hear, cant see with their eyes open, cant understand with their heart.)

We have it revealed by God that taking the words away out of the heart, stops man believing and being saved.





Mark 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Luke 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.




It is next told how LIKEWISE, others receive the word/believe for a while, until affliction/persecution/time of temptation offends/they fall away.




Mark 4:16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.

Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.




Back again on understanding, and God's warning not to add or take from the words of the prophecy of the book. The wicked one comes to the ones who do not understand, the word of the kingdom, and takes away the words sown in their heart. But the ones who do take heed how they hear, ( to not add or take away from the words of the prophecy of the book.) understand it.




Matthew 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Matthew 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.





We still need to hear how adding to the words of the prophecy of the book, is the other thing not to do whatsoever.

This time instead of satan catching away the words sown in the heart, it is done by the people hearing, then they go forth and are choked/overcharged with surfeiting, drunkenness, and cares of this life, this is ADDING DRUNKENESS TO THIRST, instead of thirsting for righteousness, they thirst to drunkenness, which is themselves adding to the words of the prophecy of the book.

This is an important testimony for all on this forum, it is the final warning from Christ about the snare/trap on all men on all of the earth right now at the end time, and to pray to escape all of these things, 1 Thessalonians 5 reveals what the drunkenness is, and sleeping in the night, it is against all who do not hear the Lords words, who hear others adding or taking from them on these forums, and then have no fruit, no readiness for Christs return.




Deuteronomy 29:19And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, TO ADD DRUNKENNESS TO THIRST:


Luke 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be OVERCHARGED WITH surfeiting, and DRUNKENNESS, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

Luke 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

1 Thessalonians 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.






Has the testimony so far not pointed enough against the voices on the forums, who ad their own words, take what they want from the scriptures ? If not, here are the words warning specifically about false Christs, false prophets, who are able to deceive very effectively.

But here also is the answer to the test of whether their words have any use, or not ?

All passes away but the words of Jesus Christ.

Also the day of the Son of man is when all are preoccupied with having the words of the kingdom taken away out o their heart, or having the cares of this world added into them.





Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.


Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.




If any man says, speaks, that is the time to not believe him.

How many times does Christ have to tell us about false Christs and false prophets rising, to seduce even the elect ?

The words of Jesus do not pass, and no man knows the day nor the hour, leaving the words of every man as nothing to ad to us, nor anything to take from any man. We not only take heed how we hear, we also watch and pray, we do not know when the time is, we pray to God to overcome satan and his deceivers, not hear them and help them to deceive us.





Mark 8:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.


Mark 8:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.



Lastly, again remembering that haven and earth pass but the words of Jesus Christ do not pass, we shun the vain babblings of the ones whose words do pass, as their words eat until they pass away unto nothing....





Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.



2 Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

Carnivore Diet

I've searched and seen a couple threads here about this but I'm just curious If anyone has any personal experience with the Carnivore Diet that they can share? A friend from church told me about it a week ago, she said her husband has been doing it for about six months and lost 100lbs. I know there's other similar accounts as well, Jordan Peterson did it and lost 45lbs with a diet of strictly "meat, salt, and water".

I really like the idea of it but my hangup is the cost of it all. I have a good income but it's all tied up in paying off debt and cost-of-living expenses. I've read a couple articles about how to do it on the cheap but I don't know if it's worth it or not, like if doing it cheaply would somehow diminish the results.

If anyone on here has done it can you share maybe what kind of results you got, how long you did it for, and (if you don't mind) what it cost financially to commit to it for that long.

Thanks!

The Harrowing of Hell

Those who enjoy listening to Choral Evensong, which I do on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays from St. Thomas Fifth Ave, one of the last of the Anglican churches to preserve that great tradition of a boys’ choir, the majority having succumbed to a combination of liberalism, in abolishing boys choirs for reasons of political correctness (a fate destined to befall St. Paul’s Cathedral in the City of London next year, and its renowned choir next year, which is to be made co-educational on the grounds that it is somehow discriminatory, the existence of numerous celebrated exclusive girls’ choirs at many English and Welsh cathedrals, most notably that of St. David’s in Wales, not being enough to spare it from those feminists who cannot withstand the idea that pre-pubescent boys and girls are often shy of each others companies and in many cases prefer at least a degree of separation, and that the tradition of the boys choir is not in and of itself an offense to egalitarianism - indeed, St. Thomas Fifth Ave operates an excellent girls choir, which operates from a period between Trinity Sunday and Michaelmas, with the boys singing from Michaelmas through Whitsunday or Trinity), would have had the pleasure of hearing as the appointed New Testament lesson 1 Peter 3:18-19, which is one of several scriptural proof texts for this ancient doctrine, along with another important one in 1 Peter 4.

What the early church believed, like with the Eucharist, is simply literally what was expressed by the text:

1 Peter 3:18–19: "For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, in order to bring you to God. He was put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit, in which also he went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison, ..."
1 Peter 4:6: "For this is the reason the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that, though they had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged, they might live in the spirit as God does."

From this, we can assert that our Lord descended into Hell not that He might be tormented (or at least, not merely, but I reject this idea altogether*), as Calvin suggested in a rare moment of direct contradiction of the New Testament on his part, a rare instance in which one can prove Calvin wrong on a textual basis**, but rather, that He might share the Gospel with those among the righteous who, owing to having died before His incarnation, did not have access to it and thus did not have access to the means of salvation, except in a few extraordinary interventions such as the salvation of St. Elijah by means of Assumption into Heaven.

Thus, if we adhere to the teachings of the early church, as opposed to the very unpleasant, and in this case, actually unscriptural, doctrine of Calvin, then we can rest assured that no one was denied salvation arbitrarily due to having been unlucky enough to not have been born before the Gospel was preached. This concept also connects with another Roman Catholic Scholastic doctrine, but this one more logical and less disagreeable than that of Anselm of Canterbury, the idea of Invincible Ignorance, that being that those who have no opportunity to hear the Gospel are not automatically damned because of it. While this doctrine is not to my knowledge formally asserted in Orthodoxy in a sophisticated manner, it is also not to my knowledge contradicted, although I would be interested to note the opinion of my most pious friends @prodromos @HTacianas @FenderTL5 and @dzheremi concerning the concept of Invincible Ignorance. I suppose the only technical objection that we might have with it would be that if the doctrine were interpreted too broadly, it would discourage the Baptism of all Nations as is commanded by Matthew 28:19 however, if it is adhered to in a manner consistent with the Harrowing of Hell and with a certain realism, that there are very few people, for example, uncontacted Amazonian tribes, and the North Sentinelese, who have perhaps not heard the Gospel by this time, and furthermore I think under Orthodox theology we are responsible for spreading it,*** that at least the idea of Invincible Ignorance might be considered a valid theologoumemnon, (theological opinion) even if it is not a doctrinal component of the Apostolic Tradition.

Additionally, the doctrine of the Harrowing of Hell ensures that all who are saved, it is made plain, are saved through the direct action of Christ our True God, the Word of the Father, who is revealed by St. Peter to be the savior not only of Christians but of the righteous Jews and Hebrews and the early prophets and anyone else who died before His incarnation and the Great Commission made Baptism in the faith accessible, so that all children and all decent people of all time have had access to His Gospel and the potential to benefit from it. This does not reduce, I should add, the privilege of Christians, for it is clear from the New Testament as a whole that it is a great blessing to have been born in the Years of our Lord, rather than in the truly horrible epoch that preceded His Incarnation. But the monstrous idea, which evangelist and fundamentalist preachers (for instance, Dr. Hal Lindsay) spent so much effort trying to work with as a basis for some kind of theological argument, that there exists an arbitrary chronological cut off, so that no one, however otherwise decent and worthy, from before Christ, could be saved, or worse, the idea that one could be saved without Christ, via the Temple sacrifice system of the ancient Hebrew religion and of Second Temple Judaism, which is clearly a typological prophecy of Christ and a foreshadowing of His sacraments, but not in and of itself efficacious, except through its connection to Christ, which introduces an unacceptable soteriological division into the Holy Trinity.

Thus, we find the true Apostolic doctrine as established not only in the first epistle of St. Peter, but of all the Apostles, as we also see in Matthew, for example, “ "And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many. So when the centurion and those with him, who were guarding Jesus, saw the earthquake and the things that had happened, they feared greatly, saying, 'Truly this was the Son of God!'"

And this will be conveyed in a few weeks for those Byzantine Catholics, and also the small number of Eastern Orthodox, on the Gregorian calendar, and this year, some weeks later for the majority of Eastern Orthodox celebrating Pascha according to the Julian calendar, by the immutable sermon always preached at midnight on the Feast of the Resurrection, for no Easter sermon before or since has been as good, the Paschal Homily of St. John Chrysostom, written most likely between 390 and 406 AD:

“ If any be devout and God-loving, let him enjoy this fair and radiant triumph. If any be a good and wise servant, let him enter rejoicing into the joy of his Lord. If any be weary of fasting, let him now receive his reward. If any have labored from the first hour, let him receive today his rightful due. If any have come at the third hour, let him feast with thankfulness. If any have arrived at the sixth hour, let him in no wise be in doubt, for in no wise shall he suffer loss. If any be delayed even until the ninth hour, let him draw near, doubting nothing, fearing nothing. If any have tarried even until the eleventh hour, let him not be fearful on account of his lateness; for the Master, Who is jealous of His honor, receiveth the last even as the first. He giveth rest to him that cometh at the eleventh hour, as well as to him that hath labored from the first hour; and to the last He is merciful, and the first He pleaseth; to the one He giveth, and to the other He bestoweth; and He receiveth the works, and welcometh the intention; and the deed He honoureth, and the offering He praiseth. Wherefore, then, enter ye all into the joy of your Lord; both the first and the second, receive ye your reward. Ye rich and ye poor, with one another exult.

Ye sober and ye slothful, honor the day. Ye that have kept the fast and ye that have not, be glad today. The table is full-laden, delight ye all. The calf is fatted; let none go forth hungry. Let all enjoy the feast of faith, receive all ye the riches of goodness. Let no one bewail his poverty, for the universal kingdom hath been revealed. Let no one weep for his transgressions, for forgiveness hath dawned from the tomb. Let no one fear death, for the death of the Saviour hath set us free. He hath quench by it, He hath led hades captive, He Who descended into hades. He embittered it, when it tasted of His flesh. And foretelling this, Isaiah cried: "Hades," he saith, "was embittered when it encountered Thee below." It was embittered, for it was abolished. It was embittered, for it was mocked. It was embittered, for it was slain. It was embittered, for it was overthrown. It was embittered, for it was fettered. It received a body and encountered God. It received earth, and met heaven. It received that which it saw, and fell to what it did not see. O death, where is thy sting? O hades, where is thy victory?

Christ is risen, and thou art cast down.

Christ is risen, and the demons are fallen.

Christ is risen, and the angels rejoice.

Christ is risen, and life flourisheth.

Christ is risen, and there is none dead in the tombs.

For Christ, being risen from the dead, is become the first-fruits of them that have fallen asleep. To Him be glory and dominion unto the ages of ages. Amen.”

* The idea of penal substitutionary atonement was absolutely unknown in the early church, since it derives directly from the Satisfaction soteriology of Anselm of Canterbury, which was a Scholastic innovation of the Roman Catholic Church that one will not find in the Patristic corpus, for it derives from Medieval concepts of chivalry and the idea that God’s honor required satisfaction of the slight against it that our disobedience posed, a concept rooted in Western European feudalism that represented much of what I consider to be Dark about the Dark Ages in Western Europe.

** There have been innumerable debates concerning whether or not Calvinism is scriptural on this forum. It is my position, having once been Calvinist, and having great respect for Reformed theology, particularly in its more interesting insights, which have been shared with us on occasion by our friend @hedrick , that, as a general rule, Calvinism does not contradict the Scriptural text but rather only contradicts Patristics, and then, only insofar as Calvin, lacking, I would argue, the benefit of more historical knowledge, dismissed substantial portions of the Patristic corpus as being in error and took the side of the Monergists and the Iconoclasts, essentially disagreeing with the Fifth and Seventh ecumenical councils, but not the the first Four, nor, in all probability, the Sixth (concerning Monothelitism; I have never seen any hint of Monothelite theology in Calvin), but in general Calvin had a reverence for at least some of the Church Fathers, and for those parts of Tradition he deemed as apostolic; it was rather the neo-Orthodoxy of Karl Barth which sought to set aside Church Tradition as the basis for doctrine, instead relying entirely on systematic theology, essentially, an attempt to use reason to determine dogma from a systematic logical evaluation of the texts themselves, much like the Karaite Jews did with the Old Testament using the Kalaam, one might argue. The problem with Barth’s neo-Orthodoxy is of course that it ignores the context in which the New Testament was written, which Patristics provides, through the study of ecclesiastical history and tradition, particularly liturgical tradition.

However, in the case of the Harrowing of Hell, this is one of those exceptions, since John Calvin was not infallible (indeed no human is; the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox churches do not recognize human beings as being infallible; Holy Tradition is infallible if correctly understood, because it acts as the means by which the Church, the very Body of Christ, guided by God the Holy Spirit, with our Lord, God and Savior the Incarnate Logos as its Head and High Priest, receives, through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, those teachings of the Fathers which are correct, and thus there is a portion of the writings of the Saints we venerate, which along with the a few other materials, for example, the essential components of our Liturgical worship, is dogmatically infallible (but in the case of liturgy, not absolute or immutable, but amenable to regional variation and development to reflect cultural differences and so forth), but even Orthodox saints are known to make theological errors. And of course we do not regard John Calvin to be saint; he opposed Orthodoxy, falsely accusing us of idolatry among other doctrinal errors, but usually his scriptural interpretation was more correct than this (unless he is being misrepresented, which I have found, thanks to @hedrick , happens with surprising frequency; Calvin does have a tendency to pleasantly surprise, although not to the same extent as Martin Luther, who I must admit thanks to the writings of my friends @ViaCrucis @Ain't Zwinglian and especially my dear friend @MarkRohfrietsch I have gone from somewhat disliking to regarding on very favorable terms, much like John and Charles Wesley, or St. Jan Hus and Jerome of Prague (who are officially venerated as martyrs by the Eastern Orthodox Church of the Czech Lands and Slovakia, being the first men widely regarded as Protestant or proto-Protestant to be officially venerated by the Orthodox.

*** in the case of uncontacted tribes, the Indian government prohibits evangelists access to North Sentinel Island due to a fear of infecting them with a disease; also they did kill the last evangelist who visited, however, I maintain that this kind of isolation is unsustainable as a public health strategy for that population, and their small number makes them vulnerable to being extinguished, and rather than simply leaving them and other such tribes uncontacted, it would be safer to set up special biologically secure hospitals and other facilities wherein their numbers might be increased through a breeding program while they are also indoctrinated in the Christian religion, for the benefit of their souls and bodies, for the meagre existence they presently eke out, where they are one famine, ecological disaster, genetic abnormality, infectious disease, or tsunami away from total extermination, and the complete loss of their entire cultural heritage, of which we presently know almost nothing, is not worth preserving, and just as the mentally ill and other vulnerable people can have their agency suspended for a time being for their own best interests, it likewise is in the best interests for uncontacted tribes to be brought into contact for purposes of a medical program of increasing their numbers, developing their immune system, giving them knowledge of the outside world, and also obtaining for our benefit a knowledge of their culture, before allowing them to return and live as they wish, but under conditions where their entire culture cannot be destroyed. However, given that the governments of India and Brazil and other countries do not allow this, which might be for the best due to the risks of corrupt or incompetent bureaucrats causing such a program as I describe to be implemented incorrectly, in such a manner that the uncontacted tribes might be infected with a disease, or otherwise be malnourished or harmed, we can still, due to what amounts to force majeure, rest assured that our God who is love has not forsaken them, owing to the concept of invinsible ignorance, just as He did not forsake the righteous ones who lived before His Incarnation, but rather did vouchsafe to ensure their access to salvation through faith in the only begotten Son and Word of God, Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior.

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