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Featured Zechariah 14 speaks of the New Jerusalem

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by claninja, Sep 3, 2018.

  1. Seville90210

    Seville90210 Psalm 118:26

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    You're ignoring God. You're playing with fire you can't imagine.

    What does it say at the end of Rev 20:4? Does it say forever or 1000 years.

    Revelation 20:4 King James Version (KJV)
    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
     
  2. Seville90210

    Seville90210 Psalm 118:26

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    And I assure you, you're quoting the wrong scripture!

    This is NOT about the millennial reign. In the millennium, it's Christ putting all authorities beneath Him while He's on earth. Where is Christ in Acts 2:34-35?

    Again, you got the wrong scripture.



    What you quoted doesn't say where Christ is.

    You wrote "Revelation 20:4 They lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

    What you wrote does not tell us where Christ is. You're coming to conclusions that are not there.




    If Christ is sitting in heaven, how can He reign on earth?

    Wrong scripture. This is not about Christ's reign on earth.

    Who in Act 2 is making footstools of the enemies? God or Christ?
     
  3. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The fire comes in the passage below, at Christ's Second Coming.

    2Th 1:7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
    2Th 1:8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    2Th 1:9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
    2Th 1:10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

    When does the fire come in Revelation chapter 20?

    .
     
  4. Seville90210

    Seville90210 Psalm 118:26

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    And these are NOT parallel scriptures.

    Zechariah 14:11 is not about a new Jerusalem. This is the same old Jerusalem you see in the Middle east today after the peace treaty and after they say peace and safety. A time during the first half of the tribulation when Jerusalem dwells in security.

    Revelation 22 is the spiritual Jerusalem where God dwells.
     
  5. Seville90210

    Seville90210 Psalm 118:26

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    They reign with Christ for 1000 years in Revelation 20:4 not for all eternity.

    Revelation 20:4 King James Version (KJV)
    And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


    Where do you find people's head being cut off in 2Thess 1?

    Your games are boring BAB!
     
  6. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Explain Jeremiah 3:16 and Revel 11 and 15.

    https://www.christianforums.com/thr...m-breaking-news.8049660/page-11#post-73145449

    A Third Temple In Jerusalem, Breaking News?

    Jeremiah 3:16
    “Then it shall come to pass, when you are multiplied and increased in the land in those days,” says Yahweh,
    that they will say no more, ‘The Ark of the Covenant of Yahweh.'
    It shall not come to mind,
    nor shall they remember it,
    nor shall they visit it,

    nor shall it be made anymore."

    Revelation 11:19
    And was opened the Sanctuary of God in the heaven

    and was seen the Ark of the Covenant of Him in the Sanctuary of Him.
    And became lightnings and voices/sounds and thunders and quaking and great hail.

    Revelation 15:8
    And is being-filled-full/repleted the Sanctuary of smoke out of the glory of the God, and out of the power of Him.
    And no one was able to be entering into the Sanctuary until should be being finished the seven blows/stripes of the seven Messengers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
  7. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    What is Christ doing in heaven?

    Receiving a Kingdom
    Luke 19:12 He said therefore, “A nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and then return.
    Being exalted above all rule, authority, power, and dominion
    Ephesians 1:21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to
    Reigning
    1 Corinthians 15:25 he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
    Waiting
    Hebrews 10:11-13 when Christb had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet.

    Christ is ruling from heaven, over heaven and earth.
    Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth.

    Maybe you could provide any scripture from the apostles, outside of revelation 20, that support a literal 1000 year reign? this would definitely help your theory.

    Heaven, as it was not David, but Jesus who ascended:
    Jesus is in heaven UNTIL his enemies are made a footstool:

    Acts 2:34-35 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said, “ ‘The Lord said to my Lord:
    “Sit at my right hand UNTIL I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” ’f

    Pot calling the kettle black. Notice revelation 20:4 doesn't say where Christ is ruling from, as even you agreed in your response. You are coming to the conclusion that Christ is physically on earth reigning during the millennium, when Scripture doesn't say that.

    Christ is ruling from heaven, over heaven and earth.
    Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth.

    Were not the heavens and earth created by Christ? If they are , they surely are his.

    Jesus is God
     
  8. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The man of sin destroyed at the Second segment, the very day that Jesus descends to earth, His Second coming.

    The last enemy to be defeated is death. At the fifth segment, at the the Great White Throne judgment - death and hell are cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:14.


    First segment - Starting out in the middle part of the seven years.
    Second segment - the very day that Jesus descends to earth, His Second Coming.
    Third segment - the 1000 years messianic reign of Jesus on this present earth.
    Fourth segment - the destruction of this current heaven and earth.
    Fifth segment - the Great White Throne Judgment.
    Sixth segment - creation of the new heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem
    Seventh segment - Eternity.

    You pray for it - the Lord's prayer. Matthew 6:9-13, Luke 11:2-4.

    9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

    10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

    11 Give us this day our daily bread.

    12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

    13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
    ______________________________________________________________________

    Daniel 2

    44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
     
  9. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    According to my bro Stephen, he is shown "standing" at the right side of God [in judgement maybe?]
    [this event is where my bro Saul/Paul is first introduced]


    Acts 7:
    56 and said, "Look! I see the heavens having been opened<διηνοιγμένους<455> and the Son of the Man standing out of rights of the God!"
    58 They dragged him out of the city and began to stone him.
    Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul.


    John sees Him sitting on a throne:

    Revelation 4:
    1 After these things I saw, and a behold! a door opened in the heaven, and the first voice that I heard is as of a trumpet speaking with me, saying, 'ascend thou! hence,

    and I will shew thee what is binding to come to pass after these;'
    2 And immediately I was in the Spirit, and behold! a throne was set in the heaven, and upon the throne is One sitting,


    Revelation 19 shows Jesus sitting and coming to wage war:


    Revelation 19:11
    And I saw the heaven being opened<ἠνεῳγμένον <455> and behold!
    A white horse!
    and the One sitting on it being called Faithful and True.

    And in justice He is judging and battling.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
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  10. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    I agree, Jesus destroys the man of sin at his coming:
    2 thessalonians 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming

    This is where your "segment" belief gets a little contradictory, as Paul states the resurrection (death defeated) occurs at Christ's coming.
    1 Corinthians 15:23 each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
    1 thessalonians 5:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

    At Christ's coming, we are gathered to him
    2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, brothers,

    Matthew 24:30-31 They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.c And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

    The harvest is at the end of the age, and that is when the righteous shine:
    Matthew 13:39-43 The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. As the weeds are collected and burned in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness. And they will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

    Notice, the righteous shine AFTER the resurrection:
    Daniel 12:2-3
    And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.
    Then the wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens,a and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.

    Again, I asked if any of the apostle's writings mention the millennium. The 2nd coming, the resurrection, and even the New heavens and New earth are mentioned in the apostles writings, outside of revelation. The millennium should be too, no?

    Also Jesus tells the disciples they will not die before the kingdom of God comes with power
    Mark 9:1 And he said to them, “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”

    The kingdom of God is not brick and mortar:

    Daniel 2:35 But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth.

    Mark 4:30-32 To what can we compare the kingdom of God? With what parable shall we present it? 31It is like a mustard seed, which is the smallest of all seeds sown upon the earth. 32But after it is planted, it grows to be larger than all garden plants and puts forth great branches, so that the birds of the air nest in its shade.”
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
  11. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I have never heard of a brick and mortar kingdom.
     
  12. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Ok, let's say stones instead of bricks..........

    Matthew 24:
    1 And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.
    And His Disciples approached Him to show to Him the buildings of the Temple.
    2 And Jesus said to them, “ are ye not seeing all these?
    Amen I am saying to ye, not no may be being left here stone upon stone, which not shall be being thrown-down.


    Mark 13:1
    And He going forth out of the Temple, one of His Disciples is saying to Him “Teacher! behold! what manner of stones and what manner of buildings
    2 And Jesus answering said to him, “thou are beholding these, the great buildings.
    Not no may be being left here stone upon stone which not no may be being thrown-down


    Luke 19:44
    “and level you, and your children within you, to the ground;
    and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”

    Luke 21:
    5 and of some saying concerning the Temple, that to goodly stones and votive-offerings<334> it has been adorned
    6 “These which ye are beholding.
    Shall be coming days in which not shall be being left stone upon stone here which not shall be being thrown-down
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
  13. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    1Corinthians15:
    25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
    26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

    The 7 segments of the Day of Lord, as I used to describe it, can also considered a timeline.

    Timelines are a way to help understand the scriptures. For example, the man of sin. That person will be on two different tracks. One is becoming the King of Israel (illegitimate). The other is becoming the King of the Roman Empire. That's the way the scriptures have been structured to reveal the person when he comes.

    So by developing a time line from the scriptures about the person - when and why he becomes the King of Israel (illegitimate), and when and why he becomes the King of the Roman Empire - we can get a good picture of the end times, start to finish.
     
  14. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Brick and mortar (also bricks and mortar or B&M): in its simplest usage describes the physical presence of a building(s) or other structures.
     
  15. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    And where is Christ until his enemies are put under his feet? Heaven, at the right hand:

    Acts 2:34-35 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said, “ ‘The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand UNTIL I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” ’f

    Hebrews 10:12-13 he sat down at the right hand of God, and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool.

    Not sure where you are getting any of this from
     
  16. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    1Co 2:14
    But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them,
    because they are spiritually discerned.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
  17. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    In the sixth seal in Revelation 6, the cosmos will part and the world with see Jesus before the throne of God, in heaven, as the great tribulation will come to a close. This is the sign of the Son of Man in heaven in Matthew 24:29-30.

    During the over three before, God will have poured out his vials of wrath. And dismantled Satan and his angels' kingdom of Babylon the Great.

    Knowing the judgment of Christ is about to come upon them, the kings of the earth, convinced by the beast, the false prophet, and Satan - assemble their armies at Armageddon to battle against Jesus.

    Psalms 2:
    1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

    2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

    3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

    4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

    5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

    6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
     
  18. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    While this is indeed true, yet Jesus is not the Father though. Obviously then, in that passage God is meaning the Father and not the Son.

    Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
    33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
    34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
    35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.


    In verse 32 Jesus and God are not the same person. In verse 34 there are two Lords in that verse. One is meaning the Father, the other is meaning the Son---The Father said unto my Lord, the Son, Sit thou on my(the Father) right hand, Until I(the Father) make thy(the Son) foes thy(the Son) footstool.

    The question is, what does it mean to sit on the right hand of God? Can Jesus still be doing that when He comes, yet before He hands the kingdom over to the Father, when God is then all in all?
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
  19. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    I for one tend to agree with the biggest majority of your conclusions here. I might not see everything exactly the way you do, but close enough anyway.
     
  20. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I had wrote...

    "So by developing a time line from the scriptures about the person - when and why he becomes the King of Israel (illegitimate), and when and why he becomes the King of the Roman Empire - we can get a good picture of the end times, start to finish."

    ___________________________________________________________________________

    A time line is graphical representation of events that will take place, in chronological order. It can be visible, like on a piece of paper or a computer screen; or it can be virtual as in a discussion.

    The person is on two tracks. Becoming the King of Israel (Illegitimae). And Becoming the King of the Roman Empire.

    Becoming the King of Israel (illegitimate - because Jesus is the rightful King of Israel, but the Jew have yet to embrace him as such) - that is when he is in the role of being the Antichrist. He is the Antichrist, (think of it as being in a role like being the President of the United States), while the Jews regard him as their King, The concept of the messiah is the promised great King of Israel, to lead Israel and the world into messianic age of peace and safety.

    The Jews will think the person is the messiah, King of Israel, until he betrays them revealing himself to be man of sin, when he goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood. That ends his time as the Antichrist, their King of Israel, because they will reject him going forward.

    On a different track - the same person becoming the little horn, and then later as the beast - that is when He is the King of the Roman Empire. Most of Revelation is when the person is functioning as the 8th King of the Roman Empire, the beast - no longer the King of Israel (illegitimate) the Antichrist.

    As the little horn, he is the 7th Julio-Claudian king of the Roman Empire. As the beast, he is the 8th Julio-Claudian king of the Roman Empire. The kingdom of the ten kings is the end times version of the Roman Empire (the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7:23-24)
    ____________________________________________________________

    The person starts out as the King of the Roman Empire, in the end times, the EU. As the little horn

    Then following Gog/Magog, the Jews will think he is the messiah, promised King of Israel, that is when he becomes the Antichrist.

    He betrays them, ending his time as their King of Israel, claiming to have achieved God-hood.

    God has him killed, and in disdain for him brings him back to life.

    The ten kings give their EU kingdom to him, making hims the 8th Julio Claudian king of the Roman Empire, as the beast. Most of Revelation is when the person is in the role as the beast.

    _________________________________________________________
    I tried to explain it barebones, so you would get the concept of Antichrist - as being the King of Israel (illegitimate), and as being the little horn, and beast as being the King of the Roman Empire.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
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