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Featured Zechariah 14 speaks of the New Jerusalem

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by claninja, Sep 3, 2018.

  1. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    Zechariah 14:20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
    21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein
    : and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.


    Now show how what I have underlined fits all of the above, or any of the above.
     
  2. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    I would argue that as well, actually. Where our arguments would differ though, would be in the timing of these events. Zechariah 14:5---and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee---proves the timing meant is the end of the age and the 2nd coming. Compare that with the following in Jude.

    Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
    15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.


    Jesus didn't come in judgment during the first coming. He does that during the 2nd coming instead.
     
  3. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Christ took up our pain and bore our suffering and if we believe in him, we shall never die.

    Isaiah 53:4 Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering

    John 11:26 and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

    Now does this mean there is no physical pain, physical suffering, or physical death on this physical earth? No, of course not, that would be a lie. In the body of Christ on earth (God's footstool) we still experience these things.

    But no longer can we spiritually die, and thus upon our physical death, we remain in the body of Christ, which also resides in heaven (God's throne). And it is here where there is no longer any suffering or pain.

    For whether we are on Earth, or go to Heaven, we remain in the New Jerusalem, the Body of Christ. And that should be a joy that overcomes any suffering or pain.

     
  4. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    I agree (except as you said with timing), even Paul seems to loosely quote Zechariah 14:5 in regards to the coming of Christ.

    1 thessalonians 4:14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.
     
  5. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    If I am not mistaken, my bro Paul quotes from Zech 14:5 in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 concerning the "parousia" of Jesus:
    [I am currently working on this]Hope this helps................

    Zechariah 14:5

    And ye have fled to the valley of My mountains, For join doth the valley of the mountains to Azal, And ye have fled as ye fled before the shaking, In the days of Uzziah king of Judah,
    And come in hath Yahweh my Elohim and all Holy Ones with Thee.

    1 Thessalonians 3:13
    so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father,

    at the parousia<3952 our Lord Jesus with all His Saints/Holy-Ones.

    Paul uses the same form of #3952 as in Matthew 24:27, 37, 39

    https://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-parousia-in-matthew-24.8076395/#post-73031604
    The "PAROUSIA" in Matthew 24


    parousia <3952> Mentioned 15 times.
    Matt 24:27, 37, 39;
    1 Corinthians 15:23, 16:17; 2 Corinthians 7:6,7 10:10; Philippians 2:12;
    1 Thessalonians 2:19, 3:13 5:23; 2 Thessalonians 2:9; James 5:8, 1 John 2:28

    Both Matthew 24 and Luke 17 mention the "days of Noah" in conjunction with that "parousia" of Jesus

    https://www.christianforums.com/thr...ke-21-harmonized.8076438/page-5#post-73139446

    Matthew 24:

    37 For as even the days of the Noah thus shall be the parousia <3952> of the Son of the Man;
    39 and not they know till came the flood and took/lifted<142> all away.

    Thus shall be also the parousia <3952> of the Son of the Man.

    Luke 17:

    26 “And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
    27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,

    and the flood came and destroyed them all.





     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
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  6. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    No. The Second Coming is in Revelation 19. Then the millennium begins of Jesus rule on this present earth, from the present Jerusalem.
     
  7. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    The coming of the Lord is when heaven and earth pass away:
    2 Peter 3:4 They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming?
    2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the elements will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed

    Peter was not waiting for the millennium, he was waiting for the new heavens and new earth
    2 Peter 3:13 But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

    Heaven and earth pass away AFTER the millennium
    Revelation 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them

    Therefore, the Lord comes AFTER the millennium.
     
  8. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    You mis-stating what the text says. First the day of the Lord will come like a thief. Then afterwards heaven and earth will pass away. Which simply means after the day of the Lord begins.

    The new heavens and new earth is one of the things Peter, like all of us, are looking for. It is not the only thing. I think near the top, is that Christians are looking for the resurrection and rapture.

    Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
     
  9. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    The greek of that passage does not say "then afterwards". that would be mis-stating the text.

    Let's look at what the text actually states:

    There is no greek for "then afterwards". The greek word that connects the day of the Lord with the heavens passing away is "in". It is a preposition. Therefore the heavens passing away is connected intimately with the day of the Lord. Inserting a long period of time, 1000 years for example, would misrepresent the passage grammatically.
    1 Peter 3:10 and it will come -- the day of the Lord -- as a thief in the night, in which the heavens with a rushing noise will pass away, and the elements with burning heat be dissolved, and earth and the works in it shall be burnt up.

    Maybe you could provide where any of the apostles wrote about the hope of the millennium, outside of revelation? Since the apostles do write about the coming, the resurrection, and the new heavens and new earth outside of revelation, surely the millennium should mentioned too, no?
     
  10. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    No Day of the Lord - no passing away of heaven and earth. The Day of the Lord beginning must come first.

    claninja, you are looking at the Day of the Lord in too of a compressed manner. Take a look at verse 8.

    "in which".

    The Day of the Lord can be addressed as segments.


    First segment - Starting out in the middle part of the seven years.
    Second segment - the very day that Jesus descends to earth, His Second Coming.
    Third segment - the 1000 years messianic reign of Jesus on this present earth.
    Fourth segment - the destruction of this current heaven and earth.
    Fifth segment - the Great White Throne Judgment.
    Sixth segment - creation of the new heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem
    Seventh segment - Eternity.

    claninja, in the first segment is when the Antichrist goes into the temple and claims to have achieved God-hood. Up to that time, the Jews and the rest of the world will be thinking he is the messiah. But what he does will be totally unexpected by them. And that act is what triggers the Day of Lord - beginning like a thief in the night.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
  11. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Your "segments" fall apart in "the time of the judgment of the dead" with "reward" for some, and "destruction" for others in Revelation 11:18.

    .
     
  12. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I don't see how. The seventh angel sounds, signaling that that time for Jesus's millennium reign will have come in Revelation 11:15, which some will be rewarded to reign with him, and others of the dead will be judged at the end of that millennium reign at the Great White Throne Judgment in Revelation 20.
     
  13. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    You have killed the 7 year tribulation, if Christ's reign begins in Revelation 11:15.

    You have also changed the word "forever" in Revelation 11:15 into "1000 years".


    You are attempting to change the text to make your doctrine work.


    .
     
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I have never said 7 year tribulation in the first place. I have said "the 7 years" in reference to the 70th week of Daniel 9:27.


    Jesus will rule over the nations of this presence earth for the 1000 years, until it is destroyed. Then over the new heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem in the new creation. Eternity - which is forever.


     
  15. Seville90210

    Seville90210 Psalm 118:26

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    Again! Read it carefully!

    Revelation 11:15 King James Version (KJV)
    And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


    The our Lord in this verse is referring to God, not Jesus. See where it said "and of his Christ."

    The He who shall reign forever is implying God.



    Jesus reigns during the millennium and returns His authority back to God at the end after destroying all of God's enemies.

    If Christ reigns forever and never gives His authority back to God, you're telling us Jesus will never win.

    1 Corinthians 15:24-25 New King James Version (NKJV)
    24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
    Jesus only reigns till He puts God's enemies in His control, which will be the millennium. It's God who reigns forever.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
  16. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Shouldn't it say "days" of the Lord instead of "day" then?

    The "day is a like a 1000 years and 1000 years like a day" is not in reference to length of the day of the Lord.....
    2 Peter 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

    It's about being patient for his coming.
    2 Peter 3:4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”

    In which segment is death defeated?
    In which segment is the man of sin destroyed?

    You didn't answer my question, so I will ask again:

    Maybe you could provide where any of the apostles wrote about the hope of the millennium, outside of revelation? Since the apostles do write about the coming, the resurrection, and the new heavens and new earth outside of revelation, surely the millennium should mentioned too, no?
     
  17. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Where is Jesus until all his enemies are defeated?

    Acts 2:34-35
    For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said, “ ‘The Lord said to my Lord:
    “Sit at my right hand UNTIL I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” ’f
     
  18. Seville90210

    Seville90210 Psalm 118:26

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    Wrong scripture! Where is Jesus during His millennial reign? Certainly not sitting in heaven next to God almighty.

    He comes to earth at the second coming.
     
  19. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The text says the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ, at the 7th trumpet.
    Why are you trying to separate them, when the text puts them together?


    This occurs at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, unless you can show us an 8th trumpet.


    Why are you attempting to ignore "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18?


    .
     
  20. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Don't really know what you mean by this. Acts 2:34-35 is in the Bible, I assure you.

    Well let's look at the only sentence in the entire Bible that puts Christ and the 1000 years together. Hmmmm......where does it say Christ is in this sentence?
    Revelation 20:4 They lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    Jesus was with the disciples until the end of the age, was he with them bodily, on earth, until the end of the age?
    Matthew 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

    So I'll ask again, Where is Jesus UNTIL his enemies are made a footstool?
    Acts 2:34-35
    For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said, “ ‘The Lord said to my Lord:
    “Sit at my right hand UNTIL I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” ’f
     
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