Your views on illegal immigration...

[KarrieTex]

No it isn't.

And it's our fault that they have to come here. Our countries trade laws, and our efforts in the S. And Central American regions have done nothing but destroy the economies of those areas. These people are coming here because WE have made it impossible to earn a livable wage.

They come here bceause we have created an illegal drug trade that destroys governments, and takes villages and towns and turn them into drug factories, where only brute force, not rule of law reigns.

ROFLMAO....seriously I am wiping my eyes

 

[irateional]

ROFLMAO....seriously I am wiping my eyes

I'm sure that the fact that the Colombian Drug Cartels buy off the governments of the countries they operate in, murder those who won't work in the coca fields and generally spread violence are not the result of us making the cocaine trade illegal. No different from prohibition. But this challenges your mindset in which you need something to crusade against. Without this constant static "source of evil", you can't feel good about yourself. You can't define yourself as good or bad without someone else to put down.

I'm sure that the US TRade deficits and duties which make it impossible for their countries to sell us goods at their actual value, while allowing us to sell them our goods and generally tamper with their markets isn't wrong at all! The US possibly being an imperialistic power? Impossible! That's not what the propaganda tells me!

So stop trying to bait me.

Either refute my points, or get out of this thread and go read some newspapers.

I'm serious. Are you a small child who can only reply by ROFLMAO? If I'm so horribly wrong, disprove me.

 

[rdclmn72]

Having indulged my need for venting my spleen, its time for me to take a slightly more objective look at the problem.

1. First, datawise, there is no data, at least nothing useable or subject to interpretation.
- medicaid, who qualifies and under what conditions, per state, - actual textual laws...

2. Second, there are too many other problems that complicate and distract us from the issue at hand.
- The working poor without health insurance,
- Those that are below the poverty line.
- Those middle-class workers that no longer have coverage.
- Those medicare recipients that have to choose between pills and food.

3. Third, the issue of whether illegals pay taxes, obviously, those that don't even get minimum wage,...is moot. For those that actually can afford false documentation, they get the real jobs, spend a lifetime looking over their shoulder, and yes, by definition, pay taxes.

4. As far as what the impact is on local government, we need reliable figures...

5. As far as how illegals impact on medicaid, we need reliable figures.

6. Its been mentioned elsewhere that the subject of illegal immigration tends to make its presence when there are problems with the economy, a situation where everyone gets squeezed and scapegoats are in demand. Otherwise, the illegals make for good crop prices.

7. The definition of illegal,...starting with the exclusion of orientals in the 19th century, the exclusion of the "mongrel hordes" after the spanish-american war, the persecution of radicals during and after WWI, the titles begin with politicians, the civilians add the title criminal for flavor.

8. The focus on the hispanic as an illegal, as unwelcome, as a criminal, as an undesireable, speaks volumes, the few hispanics that are bible-believing protestants are not welcome in anglo churches, neighborhoods or workplaces. Neither are they welcome in black circles, the competition between minorities, nothing new there...
For some reason I haven't heard plans to build a wall along the northern border, the marauding white cannuck hordes must be on a hiatus.

9. So much for our secular objectivity, the bible we believe in has a lot to say;
Abraham was a foreigner
Moses was a foreigner.
You are not to oppress the foreigner
Rahab was a foreigner
Ruth was a foreigner.
While Israel was under judgement, Elijah intervened on behalf of the woman in Sareptha.
Namaan was healed.

The challenge is for us to reconcile ourselves with the few facts available, the scriptures that define us and an understanding based to actual exposure to hunger, poverty, debt, lack of health insurance, descrimination,
hipocrisy and finally a God that takes a dim view of our excuses.

For those that are proud members of this great country, you have a lot to be proud of, as much as many countries envy or hate us, they can't help but follow our lead in social legislation geared toward an evermore just society. It's not the world market we are a part of, its not the over-stretched military commitments we make, the world stage we are a part of, our white stetson hat and white horse are part of an image of righteouseness applied on a global scale, a process 2,000 years in the making.
Debates are a question of controlling the process before the process corrupts us all. If you don't impose objectivity, you'll never persuade anyone toward a common consensus.

 

[KarrieTex]

I'm sure that the fact that the Colombian Drug Cartels buy off the governments of the countries they operate in, murder those who won't work in the coca fields and generally spread violence are not the result of us making the cocaine trade illegal. No different from prohibition. But this challenges your mindset in which you need something to crusade against. Without this constant static "source of evil", you can't feel good about yourself. You can't define yourself as good or bad without someone else to put down.

I'm sure that the US TRade deficits and duties which make it impossible for their countries to sell us goods at their actual value, while allowing us to sell them our goods and generally tamper with their markets isn't wrong at all! The US possibly being an imperialistic power? Impossible! That's not what the propaganda tells me!

So stop trying to bait me.

Either refute my points, or get out of this thread and go read some newspapers.

I'm serious. Are you a small child who can only reply by ROFLMAO? If I'm so horribly wrong, disprove me.

It's not worth debating with a child.

 

[Gwenyfur]

No it isn't.

And it's our fault that they have to come here. Our countries trade laws, and our efforts in the S. And Central American regions have done nothing but destroy the economies of those areas. These people are coming here because WE have made it impossible to earn a livable wage.

They come here bceause we have created an illegal drug trade that destroys governments, and takes villages and towns and turn them into drug factories, where only brute force, not rule of law reigns.

well kid...at least you have an opinion

 

[irateional]

well kid...at least you have an opinion

Cretins.

I shall suffer the slings and arrows of the ignorant, for they are but nothing.

 

[Gwenyfur]

Cretins.

I shall suffer the slings and arrows of the ignorant, for they are but nothing.

 

[irateional]

You continue to fail to explain how I'm wrong. If you want to take shots at me, feel free. But isn't it a fool who speaks without understanding why?

Is it not a cretin who criticizes when they have nothing of value to add? You're a mod which make this all the more sad.

 

[Gwenyfur]

Isn't it childish to try and goad someone into a response...name calling is more fitting to a school yard playground than an adult conversation.

as I said...at least you have an opinion...and one of the great things of being an adult is knowing when it's ok to have a laugh at someone's opinion, knowing it'll change as they grow up and live in the real world not sheltered by parents....and walk away.

 

[irateional]

Isn't it childish to try and goad someone into a response...name calling is more fitting to a school yard playground than an adult conversation.

as I said...at least you have an opinion...and one of the great things of being an adult is knowing when it's ok to have a laugh at someone's opinion, knowing it'll change as they grow up and live in the real world not sheltered by parents....and walk away.

Of course.

The summers I spent working on farms alongside illegal immigrants definitely hasn't given me any sense of perspective and experience. Or the other illegal immigrants I've worked alongside. Obviously.

The reality is, what does experience have to do with issues that can be understood by reading and understanding? The "experience" you speak of, if it can be called that, is simply your desire to want me to become disillusioned, calloused and ignorant to my fellow man, worn out with the struggle to survive. I do not intend to become that way. Sorry.

 

[KarrieTex]

goodness this thread is giving me a good laugh

 

[KarrieTex]

Then the citizens will have something to yell at their member of Congress.
14 Reasons to Deport Illegal Aliens...

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year.
HYPERLINK "http://tinyurl.com/zob77"

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such
as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. HYPERLINK
"http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html"

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens. HYPERLINK "http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.htm"

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school
education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English! HYPERLINK
"http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html"

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born
children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies. HYPERLINK
"http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html"

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal
aliens. HYPERLINK
"http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html"

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens. HYPERLINK
"http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html"

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare &
social services by the American taxpayers. HYPERLINK
"http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html"

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by
the illegal aliens. HYPERLINK
"http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html"

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two
and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the United States . HYPERLINK
"http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html"

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that
crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from
Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine
and marijuana, crossed into the U. S. from the Southern border. Homeland
Security Report: HYPERLINK "http://tinyurl.com/t9sht"

12. The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the total cost of mass
deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of
between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period. HYPERLINK
"http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf"

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin. HYPERLINK
"http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm"

14. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States ". HYPERLINK
"http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml"

Using the LOWEST estimates, the annual cost OF ILLEGAL ALIENS is $338.3
BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR! So if deporting them costs between $206 and $230 BILLION DOLLARS. We'll be ahead after the 1st year!!!

 

[Rick Otto]

InHisSpiritMy personal view is that the gov't needs to make citizenship more easily available to those who have entered this country legally.

Why?

As for the illegal immigrants in this country if there are found without a job or involved in crime they need to be sent back to their native country (there are more than just illegal Mexicans in this country)

A lot of them get themselves caught so they can get a ride back home in time for their cousin's wedding, etc.
You have no idea how intrepid the working of the system gets on both sides of the fence.

If they are found to be working and crime free then they should be given the option to become a citizen,

...Excuse me, that option already exists.

if they choose not to, then they go home too.

For awhile.

Our gov't needs to stop employers from hiring illegal immigrants because they are working people for less money than they are entitled

They aren't entitled to anything! Give 'em your job & paycheck and medical insurance & your kid's Public Education if you think they are entitled to it!

...and two to either become a citizen or go home.

Are they all the kind of people to just do what they're told?

i do think illegal immigrants should pay a fine for their crime of entering illegally,

...pay with what?

but I believe also, they should be able to stay because as a nation we have more to give than what they feel they have at home.

Well I feel they have more back in their countries of origin. What about my feelings? You know, the ones our forefathers bleed all over the place for?

they have come here searching for a better life,

A few have, many have come looking for easier, more profitable crimes to commit. A full 33% of our jail population screams that fact.
And everyone of those criminals get free medical care at our expense. The ones not in jail show up at emergency rooms at public expense.
Sure we have stupid Corporate Welfare policies that that make a sham of "Free Trade" and gut the international market with a flood of low-cost subsidized agriproducts that force 3rd world farmers into welfare, narcotics, or illegal immigration, but you don't solve the problem by treating the symptoms.
We absolutely do need to give our own government a lava enema.
I suggest voting for Ron Paul.
He makes the point that if Freedom & The Constitution were respected, our companies would be making good profits at making good products that would be in demand internationaly, not force fed by trade agreements that are politicaly ($) motivated. That in turn would create enough employment need to actualy have jobs for immigrants at wages that were family friendly.
You should check out Ron Pauls Google interview on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Ron+Paul&search=Search

 

[artybloke]

Personally, I think all the illegal aliens who invaded the territories of the Sioux and the Chippewah and the Iroquois and the Apache should be repatriated to the places they came from.

Send the whiteskins home!

 

[Rick Otto]

We locked you out a long time ago.
Besides, that would mean your having ME as YOUR neighbor!
And I'm a 8th generation grand-nephew of Oliver Cromwell.
But you have point. I sympathize with indigenous peoples.

Has anybody here visited Michael Savage.com or listened to his "Savage Nation" talk show?
You can stream it off of KFAB AM Omaha, 9 to midnight local time.

 

[Divinah]

Personally, I think all the illegal aliens who invaded the territories of the Sioux and the Chippewah and the Iroquois and the Apache should be repatriated to the places they came from.

Send the whiteskins home!

AAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHhahahahhahah!

 

[Carey]

My personal view is that the gov't needs to make citizenship more easily available to those who have entered this country legally. As for the illegal immigrants in this country if there are found without a job or involved in crime they need to be sent back to their native country (there are more than just illegal Mexicans in this country) If they are found to be working and crime free then they should be given the option to become a citizen, if they choose not to, then they go home too. Our gov't needs to stop employers from hiring illegal immigrants because they are working people for less money than they are entitled and two to either become a citizen or go home. i do think illegal immigrants should pay a fine for their crime of entering illegally, but I believe also, they should be able to stay because as a nation we have more to give than what they feel they have at home. they have come here searching for a better life, but it needs to be on our terms and not theirs. They need to learn our language to blend with our nation. They choose to come here, we have not chosen for them to come, so they need to make that one change to adapt.

Your thoughts?

Bring our troops home from Iraq to guard the border. When they catch an illegal immigrant crossing the border, hand him a canteen, rifle an some ammo and ship him to Iraq. Tell him if he wants to come to America then he must serve a tour in the military. Give him a soldier's pay while he's there and tax him on it. After his tour, he will be allowed to become a citizen since he defended this country. He will also be registered to be taxed and be a legal patriot. This option will probably deter illegal immigration and provide a solution for the troops in Iraq and the aliens trying to make a better life for themselves. If they refuse to serve, ship them to Iraq anyway, without the canteen, rifle or ammo. Problem solved.

 

[KarrieTex]

Bring our troops home from Iraq to guard the border. When they catch an illegal immigrant crossing the border, hand him a canteen, rifle an some ammo and ship him to Iraq. Tell him if he wants to come to America then he must serve a tour in the military. Give him a soldier's pay while he's there and tax him on it. After his tour, he will be allowed to become a citizen since he defended this country. He will also be registered to be taxed and be a legal patriot. This option will probably deter illegal immigration and provide a solution for the troops in Iraq and the aliens trying to make a better life for themselves. If they refuse to serve, ship them to Iraq anyway, without the canteen, rifle or ammo. Problem solved.

ROFL

 

[Divinah]

The BIBLE says not to despise a theif, if he steals in hunger.

I think the same consideration could/should be extended to most in this situation...those who are honest, hardworking and trying to create a better life for themselves.

As someone pointed out...it is, to some extent how most people got here.

I see some of you here beating your heads against the wall...know why? Because it's and impossible nightmare. Bottome line...measures need to be taken to keep the problem from progressing. No further benefits can be offered to those who are illegal...AND everyone needs to except the fact that some amnesty will be in order.

And we need to do all this setting all of our own nasty natures aside.

GOD BLESS!

 

[Carey]

The BIBLE says not to despise a theif, if he steals in hunger.

I think the same consideration could/should be extended to most in this situation...those who are honest, hardworking and trying to create a better life for themselves.

As someone pointed out...it is, to some extent how most people got here.

I see some of you here beating your heads against the wall...know why? Because it's and impossible nightmare. Bottome line...measures need to be taken to keep the problem from progressing. No further benefits can be offered to those who are illegal...AND everyone needs to except the fact that some amnesty will be in order.

And we need to do all this setting all of our own nasty natures aside.

GOD BLESS!

Are you saying this is unloving??

Are you saying it would be bad for the Illegal Aliens to fight for our natioanl security before the be aloud to become tax paying ctizens??

Is it more loving to send our citizens especially the ones born and raised instead of those who would
defy our laws??