Yeshua HaDerekh
Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it
- May 9, 2013
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So what's your point?
Flesh and blood can NOT inherit The Kingdom
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So what's your point?
Not sure if we are in disagreement, your not stating clearly your pov.Yes, He IS speaking of spiritual things regarding being "born again", so why are you not understanding?
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And?
No worries.Firstly, I don't mean to sound harsh...just trying to be straightforward.
1. Just because baptism doesn't appear in every passage that refers to salvation doesn't prove anything.
Can we use that same logic with anything else in the Bible? How about with sin? Does every sin have to be listed out in one passage to know "ok I really can't do any of these things.". Of course not, we have to look at ALL passages regarding sin and therefor we learn that lying is a sin even though it's not necessarily listed next to blasphemy.
So we should also look at ALL passages regarding salvation in order to come to a COMPLETE understanding on the topic. Otherwise we are guilty of "cherry picking".
(See 2 Timothy 3:16-17 + Revelation 22:18-19)
2. In all the examples of baptism in the book of Acts, they are done ASAP--not after some multi-week course. Once someone believes that Jesus is the son of God, confesses that faces, and commits to repentance, then they are immediately baptized. See Acts 16:33
3. Just because you "think" that certain people make it to heaven, doesn't make it so. To be a Christian is to follow Christ...and all the information that we need to know about Christ is contained within the Bible--so let's stick to the source! It is good that you accept the fact that Jesus teaches baptism in water...so don't deceive yourself--just do what He says! And teach others to do the same.
4. When people die, they do not go straight to heaven or hell. We all go to a place of waiting called "hades" (from the Greek) which is the realm of the dead. Hades is distinguished from "hell" ("gehenna" in Greek) which is the place of eternal torment. See the final judgment taught by Jesus in Matthew 25:31-46 and that hades is distinguished from the "lake of fire" in Revelation 20:14.
Even when Jesus died, He also went to hades (see 1 Peter 3:19), although note that in hades there seems to be a good part called "paradise" and a bad part, as the parable of the rich man & Lazarus suggests (Luke 16:19-30) as well as Jesus words on the cross (Luke 23:43).
Yep... and I am not saved by "work". I am saved by Christ's grace and my faith in that.Less work is still work. Something is still more than nothing.
-CryptoLutheran
Well, I'll give you the fact that baptism is a command from Christ. However, there are many verses of scripture that tell you what to do to be saved and don't include baptism as one of them.
I would strongly suggest to anyone that I bring to Christ that they should get baptized,
Most churches will run a short course on Christianity for anyone who wants to get baptized. I highly recommend it but I think that there are plenty of Christians in heaven who never got baptized.
Yep... and I am not saved by "work". I am saved by Christ's grace and my faith in that.
There is nothing I can "do" to save myself.
There are people out there who are giving to every charity, holding every door, volunteering for every event, carrying in all the groceries, serving at soup kitchens every Friday... believe they are really good people... but have not accepted Christ, may not even believe in Him.. they think "I have been good" and they are... very good people... yet not saved.
Salvation is when your heart changes from "I am good" to "I am lost".
From "I can do it" to "I need Christ"
From "I'm not bad" to "I am in need of help"
From "I don't need Christ" to "Christ please save me"
The rest is a verbal manifestation of that change of heart and an outward public declaration of it. The voice or the mind puts the change of heart into thought, a request to Christ, be it audible or in your head. It is a total change of heart and attitude.
This is why we say that only God knew their heart.
All sin. The Spirit guides you, the helper. You still have free will. You sin, you repent.
The Spirit does more than guides you.
You are right. There are many different views on this.I don't see anywhere in scripture were it says it is optional . Christ commanded " Baptise all nations "
These scriptures you suggest are not either/or statements. They are and/both statements . Not to be taken in isolation nor are they meant to negate Baptism .
Can Christ under special circumstance save someone , I can agree ( like the thief on the cross ) or a dying person accepting Christ at the last minute . But the norm is Baptism .I think they must get Baptised and I would do it for a dying person if they were also willing to accept Jesus .
If you are Presbyterian , Lutheran ,Anglican , Orthodox or Catholic Baptism Is considered a sacrament . Some Christians believe it is symbolic so why bother . Then there are the Pentecostals that insist you must be Baptised in the Holy Spirit to be saved . It all depends on how a person interprets scripture as to were they place Baptism .
Not trying to sture up anything , just sharing my thoughts
You are right. Works don't save you. Faith without works is dead. However, we have to define what is "works"? What is "Fruit"Does Not scripture also say "faith without works is dead"
Gal 5:4-6 nothing counts but faith working through love
James 2:24 a man is justified by works and not by faith alone (read 1-28 )*
Phil 2:12 Work out your salvation in fear and trembling
Mt 10:22 he who endures till the end will be saved
Mt 7:21 Not all those who say lord lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my father
My works alone wont save me and my faith alone wont save me , Gods grace will. Faith ,works , Grace is built like a 3 legged stool take one leg away the stool falls down.
A change of heart is important yet Christ says Mt 24:13 'those who persevere to the end will be saved' . Some Christians will go off the rails, are deceived , commit adultery loose their faith , or in other words fall away . A one time declaration is not enough .We need daily declarations , repentance , works , obedience and maintain our faith throughout our lives .
I never said it didn't...
We're you properly baptized, if so, you were born again.I have been a Christian all my life but now people have been saying you need to be born again to be saved.
We're you properly baptized, if so, you were born again.
Water baptism is the baptism of repentance.But don't you have to repent before you can be "properly" baptized?
Water baptism is the baptism of repentance.
Even babies have souls.How does a baby repent?
Even babies have souls.
So even babies are capable of sinning with their thoughts, and therefore even babies can repent.That is not in question.