You must be born again to be saved?

[DominicBaptiste]

Hey.... it's not up to me to say if your saved, not saved, when you were saved, why you got saved so many times.. what confirmed is or whatever.... not up to me...

All I'm saying is that accepting Christ, being saved, being born again, attaining salvation..... all the same thing and all happen as one single event, not progressive salvation.

What on earth would that look like... A 30 year old man gets killed in a car crash and the preacher, at the funeral, says....
"poor soul, was on his way to being saved... a couple more months and he would have had salvation... poor soul, died too soon"?

I don't believe in the preacher making that kind of determination at the funeral because the preacher is not God, but I might say "John Doe was a Methodist Christian, and our sincere prayer is that his faith journey has led him away from Christian Forums to a nicer place with Jesus, but he didn't receive the holy spirit that we know of and speak in tongues, so we'll just hope that God knew what he was doing when he led John Wesley to found the Methodist Church. If that's a problem for anyone, you can start a revolution against Methodism, after the service. Thank you."

 

[JacksBratt]

I don't believe in the preacher making that kind of determination at the funeral because the preacher is not God, but I might say "John Doe was a Methodist Christian, and our sincere prayer is that his faith journey has led him away from Christian Forums to a nicer place with Jesus, but he didn't receive the holy spirit that we know of and speak in tongues, so we'll just hope that God knew what he was doing when he led John Wesley to found the Methodist Church. If that's a problem for anyone, you can start a revolution against Methodism, after the service. Thank you.

Hahahahaha That is hilarious.. do you write your own stuff?

I don't believe that Christ wants anyone to wonder if they or any other of their loved ones had passed enough milestones to achieve salvation.

I guess the thief on the cross was in the accelerated program and got a fast track to the diploma.

 

[dreadnought]

But John 3:16 doesn't mention the new birth, it is part of the discussion Jesus has with Nicodemus in which He talks about new birth; but when talking about the new birth He says clearly that it is a birth of "water and [the] Spirit", which is precisely why the Christian faith has always looked to Baptism as the new birth because it is precisely that: water and the Spirit. As we read, for example, in Titus 3:5 that we have been washed by the waters of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit. Jesus responds to Nicodemus' confusion by saying, "Are you a teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand this?", as a rabbi Nicodemus should be very aware of the meaning and significance of tevilah in the mikveh in Judaism, by which a person was made new and a part of the covenant God established through Moses. The Jewish tevilah is a prefigure of Christian Baptism; a new significance is given to this washing in Christ, namely--as St. Paul writes--"Do you not know that all of us who were baptized into Christ were baptized into His death?" We have received new life in Christ by the Holy Spirit in Baptism by which we are new creations, born again, made new, in the Lord Messiah.

-CryptoLutheran

It's not good to get too technical. Obey the Lord's commandments. Enjoy life.

 

[DominicBaptiste]

Hahahahaha That is hilarious.. do you write your own stuff?

I don't believe that Christ wants anyone to wonder if they or any other of their loved ones had passed enough milestones to achieve salvation.

I guess the thief on the cross was in the accelerated program and got a fast track to the diploma.

I don't think that anyone has to go through a confirmation to get saved. So, if that's what you mean by accelerated program, I agree with you. If somebody told me they wanted to get saved, I'd pray with them to accept Jesus and then throw them in the river in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit if they were up for it, even though I'm not a church organization. Probably better to be baptized into a congregation of people. I don't know though if all that would qualify as "born again" on this site, but most baptists would agree that if they accepted Jesus, they would go to heaven.

 

[ViaCrucis]

So, I guy comes up to you and says... all you have to do is ask for any new car... and it's yours..

You say "I want a nice new Tesla"... the man gives you a nice new Tesla....

Later that week your friend says "wow" how can I get one.. what did you do to get this car...

Well......what did you do? Anything?

Yeah, I asked for the car.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Darrel Slugoski]

John 3:16

Thanks for the reminder .

Baptism is not optional . Belief is is not optional either . Both work together . John 3:3-7 Jesus said one must be born again by " water and Spirit " Jn 3:5,22 and "born from above". When Christ came out of the water the Holy Spirit descended on him ( water and Spirit ) . Peter says " repent and be Baptised every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins and you shall receive the Holy Spirit ". Peter also says " Baptism ..now saves you ."1 Peter 3:21.

The Epistle of Barnabas 170 ad " regarding Baptism , we have the evidence of scripture that Israel would refuse to accept the washing which confers the remission of sins and would set up a substitution of their own instead "

 

[Darrel Slugoski]

I don't think that anyone has to go through a confirmation to get saved. So, if that's what you mean by accelerated program, I agree with you. If somebody told me they wanted to get saved, I'd pray with them to accept Jesus and then throw them in the river in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit if they were up for it, even though I'm not a church organization. Probably better to be baptized into a congregation of people. I don't know though if all that would qualify as "born again" on this site, but most baptists would agree that if they accepted Jesus, they would go to heaven.

I believe that ( thief on the cross ) was a one time incident that wont be repeated . However , it was not the norm , Baptism is the norm . And is not optional . However if someone was dying and turn their life to Christ , at that moment , Christ would would save him , which is still not the norm .

 

[JacksBratt]

I don't think that anyone has to go through a confirmation to get saved. So, if that's what you mean by accelerated program, I agree with you. If somebody told me they wanted to get saved, I'd pray with them to accept Jesus and then throw them in the river in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit if they were up for it, even though I'm not a church organization. Probably better to be baptized into a congregation of people. I don't know though if all that would qualify as "born again" on this site, but most baptists would agree that if they accepted Jesus, they would go to heaven.

Well, what I meant by the accelerated program was that the thief on the cross had no "journey" to salvation. One moment he was bound for hell and the next he was going to paradise with Christ.

I don't buy into the whole journey to salvation. I would say it's an instantaneous thing.

However, once saved, life is still a journey and we have a long process of maturing in our life with Christ. Saved, but growing and gaining knowledge, doing His work on earth.

I also don't believe that baptism is a prerequisite either. I think that it is a very important thing to do as a public profession of your faith.... I just have a hard time believing that Christ would refuse you when you die, if you believed in Him and gave your heart to Him...

I guess that's one thing I'll find out when I get to glory.

 

[JacksBratt]

Yeah, I asked for the car.

-CryptoLutheran

LOL...good work.

I guess the next guy to get a Tesla, who worked overtime and scrimped and saved working long hours.... He might have a different opinion on whether you "did" anything for it... Maybe it's just me... But I'd say you did absolutely nothing for that car, in comparison to the value of it.
Salvation... the value of that is infinite...so the parallel of a car kinda dims to the reality of "doing" anything for salvation.

But, if you think you "did" something for your salvation... who am I to say that asking for it isn't "doing" something.

 

[JacksBratt]

Thanks for the reminder .

Baptism is not optional . Belief is is not optional either . Both work together . John 3:3-7 Jesus said one must be born again by " water and Spirit " Jn 3:5,22 and "born from above". When Christ came out of the water the Holy Spirit descended on him ( water and Spirit ) . Peter says " repent and be Baptised every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins and you shall receive the Holy Spirit ". Peter also says " Baptism ..now saves you ."1 Peter 3:21.

The Epistle of Barnabas 170 ad " regarding Baptism , we have the evidence of scripture that Israel would refuse to accept the washing which confers the remission of sins and would set up a substitution of their own instead "

Well, I'll give you the fact that baptism is a command from Christ. However, there are many verses of scripture that tell you what to do to be saved and don't include baptism as one of them.

I would strongly suggest to anyone that I bring to Christ that they should get baptized,

Most churches will run a short course on Christianity for anyone who wants to get baptized. I highly recommend it but I think that there are plenty of Christians in heaven who never got baptized.

 

[Brokenhill]

Well, I'll give you the fact that baptism is a command from Christ. However, there are many verses of scripture that tell you what to do to be saved and don't include baptism as one of them.

I would strongly suggest to anyone that I bring to Christ that they should get baptized,

Most churches will run a short course on Christianity for anyone who wants to get baptized. I highly recommend it but I think that there are plenty of Christians in heaven who never got baptized.

Firstly, I don't mean to sound harsh...just trying to be straightforward.

1. Just because baptism doesn't appear in every passage that refers to salvation doesn't prove anything.
Can we use that same logic with anything else in the Bible? How about with sin? Does every sin have to be listed out in one passage to know "ok I really can't do any of these things.". Of course not, we have to look at ALL passages regarding sin and therefor we learn that lying is a sin even though it's not necessarily listed next to blasphemy.
So we should also look at ALL passages regarding salvation in order to come to a COMPLETE understanding on the topic. Otherwise we are guilty of "cherry picking".
(See 2 Timothy 3:16-17 + Revelation 22:18-19)

2. In all the examples of baptism in the book of Acts, they are done ASAP--not after some multi-week course. Once someone believes that Jesus is the son of God, confesses that faces, and commits to repentance, then they are immediately baptized. See Acts 16:33

3. Just because you "think" that certain people make it to heaven, doesn't make it so. To be a Christian is to follow Christ...and all the information that we need to know about Christ is contained within the Bible--so let's stick to the source! It is good that you accept the fact that Jesus teaches baptism in water...so don't deceive yourself--just do what He says! And teach others to do the same.

4. When people die, they do not go straight to heaven or hell. We all go to a place of waiting called "hades" (from the Greek) which is the realm of the dead. Hades is distinguished from "hell" ("gehenna" in Greek) which is the place of eternal torment. See the final judgment taught by Jesus in Matthew 25:31-46 and that hades is distinguished from the "lake of fire" in Revelation 20:14.

Even when Jesus died, He also went to hades (see 1 Peter 3:19), although note that in hades there seems to be a good part called "paradise" and a bad part, as the parable of the rich man & Lazarus suggests (Luke 16:19-30) as well as Jesus words on the cross (Luke 23:43).

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Then what about the question of sin? Can you sin with that seed planted in you?

All sin. The Spirit guides you, the helper. You still have free will. You sin, you repent.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

.
This Newness life of which is spoken of, takes place upon the event of our Baptism, we are Regenerated through the process of Baptism, we are given the Indwelling of the Spirit, becoming (Born Again) having been raised from the dead with Christ.

Rom. 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

If baptism is being born again, then how did the thief on the cross who was NOT baptized, go to paradise? Romans 8:11 says the SAME thing I did.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

.
Your talking about the Resurrection of the dead unto in-corruption, and becoming Born Again as though they were the same event, your mixing verses together which do not go together.

You say the seed planted must die first, does this mean, Holy Spirit dies in us once implanted, and does not bloom until we die physically?

I am not mixing anything! The Spirit can't die, we do, it is what raises us. We are born once and die once...physically in our mortal body. We are born AGAIN in our spiritual body. Those that have not the Spirit and are not Yeshua's, there is also a second death.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

You must be " born again of water and spirit" which refers to Baptism .When Jesus came out of the water the Holy Spirit descended on him while being Baptized by John the Baptist. Cant get any more scriptural then that . Protestants always for get the water part .

And yet the thief on the cross was not baptized...you need to read His ENTIRE exchange with Nakdimon regarding being born again. He NEVER mentions baptism. Gentiles received The Holy Spirit BEFORE they were baptized.

 

[SBC]

I have been a Christian all my life but now people have been saying you need to be born again to be saved.

Everything hinges on one believing in their heart in the Word of God.

"Saving", is saving ones soul, unto God forever.

"Born again", is a mans natural spirit, (ie truth in his heart), from a mans seed,
being born again, to a spiritual spirit, with a new truth (Gods Truth), in the mans heart, from the Seed of God.

Saving of the soul;
Birthing a new spirit;

Are unseen acts, effected FOREVER, by the Power of God; For an individual who believes in their heart, in the Word of God.

It matters not, from the beginning of mankind, to the ends of days.........
It matters not, IF a man knows or understands.....what it is called;
(Ie saved, born again)

If a man does believe in his Heart, in the Word of God....He is forever saved and born again, baptized BY and UNTO the Holy Spirit.
He forever, is kept unto God, by the Power of God.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Yet you ignore what he said..."So is everyone who is born of the Spirit". READ ALL OF IT

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

But John 3:16 doesn't mention the new birth, it is part of the discussion Jesus has with Nicodemus in which He talks about new birth; but when talking about the new birth He says clearly that it is a birth of "water and [the] Spirit", which is precisely why the Christian faith has always looked to Baptism as the new birth because it is precisely that: water and the Spirit. As we read, for example, in Titus 3:5 that we have been washed by the waters of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit. Jesus responds to Nicodemus' confusion by saying, "Are you a teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand this?", as a rabbi Nicodemus should be very aware of the meaning and significance of tevilah in the mikveh in Judaism, by which a person was made new and a part of the covenant God established through Moses. The Jewish tevilah is a prefigure of Christian Baptism; a new significance is given to this washing in Christ, namely--as St. Paul writes--"Do you not know that all of us who were baptized into Christ were baptized into His death?" We have received new life in Christ by the Holy Spirit in Baptism by which we are new creations, born again, made new, in the Lord Messiah.

-CryptoLutheran

Tevilah in the Mikveh was not a one time thing such as Baptism. Yeshua was referring to resurrection when responding to Nakdimon...

 

[sdowney717]

Yet you ignore what he said..."So is everyone who is born of the Spirit". READ ALL OF IT

"So is everyone who is born of the Spirit", refers to God's action on us believers.
Who is born of the Spirit? We are.
How is this accomplished? By the Holy Spirit.
Nothing in there about us accomplishing anything.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

"So is everyone who is born of the Spirit", refers to God's action on us believers.
Who is born of the Spirit? We are.
How is this accomplished? By the Holy Spirit.
Nothing in there about us accomplishing anything.

Again, read ALL of it. Read the line right before "So is everyone..." Do YOU resemble that?