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Rapture Wimpism

Any student of Scripture with even a cursory knowledge of the NT Church knows that tribulation in the form of persecution, suffering, and death has been the lot of the Church ever since its birth. From its persecution at the hands of the Jews, to that under the Roman emperors and empires, to that today under Islam and other ideologies; the Church's experience with tribulation has been unrelenting, and its death toll over the millennia is counted in the tens of millions.

In the NT, we see in the book of Acts a complete account of how the disciples and Christ's followers were hated and persecuted as Jesus had predicted (Matthew 24:9). In Acts 4: "And they laid hands on them [Peter and John], and put them in prison" (verse 3). In Acts 5, they were "beaten" (verse 40). As they departed from the "council", they rejoiced "that they were counted worthy to suffer for his name"(verse 41). In Acts 7, Stephen was killed for his stand (verses 54-60). In Acts 8:1 "There was a great persecution against the church." In Acts 16, Paul and Silas were beaten and cast into prison. In Acts 21, persecution resulted in Paul being beaten, and brought before rulers, before whom he testified (Acts 22). In Acts 22:19 we read that Paul confessed that prior to his conversion, he had "imprisoned and beaten in every synagogue" those who believed in Christ.

There was, and is, no lack of tribulation for the NT Church.

But deplorably, we see today a generation of what can best be described as “rapture wimps.” This generation of North American believers, the most “molycoddled and milquetoast” in the history of the Christian Church, seems in large part to believe that it is also entitled to escape the trials and privations which have beset the historic Church, and to be “...carried to the skies on flowery beds of ease” as the beloved hymn “Am I a Soldier of the Cross” describes.

The following partial enumeration of NT tribulation references...:

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

2 Corinthians 1:4
Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

1 Thessalonians 3:4
For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

Revelation 1:9
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

...makes it clear that there is no room for “rapture wimps” in the Christian Church. In solidarity with other believers in parts of the world who suffer tribulation even as we read this, we must be prepared to, as did and do these, “fight to win the prize and sail through bloody seas”, as we see the hymnwriter further pen.


God has promised...:

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

...that we can be triumphant in Him even in the midst of tribulation. He promises us all of His grace and resources to make this a reality.


But the promise is only for those who refuse to be “rapture wimps.”
You really, really need to study more because you are so wrong on so many levels.
And , you are quite obnoxious .
Seriously.
 
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StevenMerten

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Hey Steven,
Am I to understand you, that you are stuffing words in my mouth. If not, can you please show my quote that causes you to draw such a conclusion.

Additionally, am I to understand you have not addressed the issue of the great multitude in heaven at the marriage supper that returns to earth with the Messiah.

Replacement theology doctrine is man-made.
Matthew 26:61
"This man has declared, 'I can destroy God's temple and rebuild it in three days'"... ...Soon you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.

Luke 19:44 The Lament for Jerusalem
As he drew near, he saw the city and wept over it, For the days are coming upon you when your enemies will raise a palisade against you; they will encircle you and hem you in on all sides. They will smash you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave one stone upon another within you because you did not recognize the time of your visitation.

Psalms 137:9
Blessed the one who seizes your children
and smashes them against the rock.

Bible Notes: Blessed the one who seizes your children and smashes them against the rock: the children represent the future generations, and so must be destroyed if the enemy is truly to be eradicated.
Mark 13:1 The Destruction of the Temple Foretold. Jesus said to him, “Do you see these great buildings? There will not be one stone left upon another that will not be thrown down.”
Hello CW,
Is Jesus really going to smash little Jewish children's heads upon a rock? No! Jesus is not! Is Jesus going to annihilate the Jewish Religion, upon His Second Coming, in which He will Restore the Kingdom of Israel, and Rule the world? Absolutely Yes! When Jesus Comes in His Power and Glory, there will only be Catholic converts where the Jewish people, and their children, once stood. The Blessed Mother says its all Catholic on the other side of Armageddon. Jesus will Rule the world, with and through His Church, the Catholic Church. Jesus Tremendous Power, through miracles, signs and wonders, will be a tremendous light to the nations. The nations will stream to the Church, through the gates of Baptism, to be with Jesus.

Jesus tells us that, His Apostles will Rule over the Twelve Tribes of Israel, and be His witness to the Jewish People, when He Restores Israel. The New Jerusalem, which comes to earth at the end of the Book of Revelation, is Jesus' married to His Church. There are not going to be any Jews in the Restored Kingdom of Israel.

Acts 1:6
When they had gathered together they asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?" He answered them, "It is not for you to know the times or seasons that the Father has established by his own authority. But you will receive power when the holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, throughout Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." When he had said this, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him from their sight.

Luke 22:25

He said to them, I confer a kingdom on you, just as my Father has conferred one on me, that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom; and you will sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Revelation 2:26
To the victor, who keeps to my ways until the end, I will give authority over the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod. Like clay vessels will they be smashed, just as I received authority from my Father. And to him I will give the morning star.
I do not know what you are talking about in your statement, 'Replacement theology doctrine is man-made', so I asked. As long as you agree that it is all Christ's Church in the Restored Kingdom of Israel, and the Jewish nation and religion has been totally replaced by Jesus' Church. Once Jesus is crowned as King and Ruler of the world, He will tear down the Jewish temple, and after the 'Three Days of Darkness', He will rebuild the Temple, one 'not made of stone', by bonding Himself to the body of His Church in a new and spectacular way. We will be in Christ's Kingdom Come, living under Messianic Reign, as the Catholic Church. The Jewish Church will be nothing but history.
 
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Calminian

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There are two resurrections in John chapter 5.

The first resurrection in chapter 5 is in John 5:24, which is the process of being passed from death to life, upon coming to faith in Christ.
It is a spiritual resurrect.

The second resurrection in chapter 5 is in John 5:27-30.
It is the bodily resurrection and judgment of "all" the dead.

John also recorded Revelation chapter 20. (That is a hint.)


The time of "the judgment of the dead" is found in Revelation 11:18, which is right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.

Because Christ returns in Revelation 16:15-16, and also in chapter 19, we know the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.


.

Hmmm.

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.​

It says these individuals were beheaded for their witness. That is definitely physical. Seems awfully forced to turn this into a metaphor. That is not remotely similar to the language John used in his gospel. Then it goes on to say,

5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.​

That term "the rest" is a direct link making it impossible to view these in two different senses. Either they are both spiritual or both physical, but you can't separate them.
 
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BABerean2

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Hmmm.

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.​

It says these individuals were beheaded for their witness. That is definitely physical. Seems awfully forced to turn this into a metaphor. That is not remotely similar to the language John used in his gospel. Then it goes on to say,

5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.​

That term "the rest" is a direct link making it impossible to view these in two different senses. Either they are both spiritual or both physical, but you can't separate them.

It all depends on where the emphasis is placed in the passage.
Did you also consider the following?


Can you have the time for the dead to be judged in the verse below, without a resurrection of the dead? This occurs right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The judgment of the dead comes at the end of Revelation 20.


Based on the fact that Christ returns in Revelation 16:15-16, and also in chapter 19, we know the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.


Based on Matthew 25:31-46, no mortals will be left alive on the planet after the sheep and goat judgment. The beginning of the passage indicates it occurs at the Second Coming.
This agrees with 2 Timothy 4:1.

Based on 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, Christ returns "in flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know God.
The fire comes at the end of Revelation 20.

.
 
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BABerean2

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Sure.

Let's start with the times of the Gentiles. When will it be over?

If we use pure logic, which is not pretrib logic, and the words of Christ found below, the last Gentile will be saved the day of Christ's Second Coming, right before He returns.


Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
Mat 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
Mat 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.



Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

.
 
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BABerean2

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When Jesus Comes in His Power and Glory, there will only be Catholic converts where the Jewish people, and their children, once stood. The Blessed Mother says its all Catholic on the other side of Armageddon. Jesus will Rule the world, with and through His Church, the Catholic Church. Jesus Tremendous Power, through miracles, signs and wonders, will be a tremendous light to the nations. The nations will stream to the Church, through the gates of Baptism, to be with Jesus.

Are saying that only those who bow down to the Pope of Rome will rule with Christ?

Where did Mary say in the Bible that there will only be those who bow down to Peter, or other men, on the other side of Armageddon?

Based on the scripture below, it is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit that is most important.


Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (The Holy Spirit comes after a person believes.)

The Church of Jesus Christ is powered by the Spirit, instead of the water.

No man or woman enters into a covenant with God as an infant, through water.


When were you "born again" of the Spirit of God?

.
 
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Choose Wisely

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Hello CW,
The Blessed Mother says its all Catholic on the other side of Armageddon. Jesus will Rule the world, with and through His Church, the Catholic Church. Jesus Tremendous Power, through miracles, signs and wonders, will be a tremendous light to the nations. The nations will stream to the Church, through the gates of Baptism, to be with Jesus.

Jesus tells us that, His Apostles will Rule over the Twelve Tribes of Israel, and be His witness to the Jewish People, when He Restores Israel. The New Jerusalem, which comes to earth at the end of the Book of Revelation, is Jesus' married to His Church. There are not going to be any Jews in the Restored Kingdom of Israel.

We will be in Christ's Kingdom Come, living under Messianic Reign, as the Catholic Church. The Jewish Church will be nothing but history.

Hey Steven,
First, let me say that I am very, very impressed that you, being Catholic, would quote so many scriptures. Usually, Catholics stay far from the Bible as when they read the Bible, they tend to leave the Catholic church. You seem to have this grand ending for the Catholic church all worked out. I think there will be a different ending. Let's take a look at the
woman that dresses in purple and scarlet
and has a golden cup in her hand.


Rev 17
17 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

And here is the Catholic Churches fate.

Rev 17
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
 
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Choose Wisely

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If we use pure logic, which is not pretrib logic, and the words of Christ found below, the last Gentile will be saved the day of Christ's Second Coming, right before He returns.
Well, this is awkward. I'm not sure if you just don't know, and I owe you an apology or whether you are jerking my chain. I would say this would be when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Luke 21

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Rev 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

.
You're pretty logical, so it's possible that you can pick up on this.


NOW IS COME SALVATION. What do you think is going on?

Rev 12
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
If you look over in Rev 6 you will see the signs of Matt 24. You will also see THE STARS FALL FROM HEAVEN. That is when Satan is cast down. Here we see that there will be believers alive at the coming of Christ and salvation.
Matt 24
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

So the question is who overcame Satan by the blood of the lamb. Those that overcame him by the blood of the lamb are the ones that were being accused when Satan was accusing them before our God day and night. That mean when he was in the presence of God..........not when he was cast down. So the ones that overcame him by the blood of the lamb were the ones being accused by him day and night BEFORE he was cast down.

After he was cast down, he went after the woman..........ISRAEL.
 
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BABerean2

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Well, this is awkward. I'm not sure if you just don't know, and I owe you an apology or whether you are jerking my chain. I would say this would be when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Luke 21

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Rev 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


You're pretty logical, so it's possible that you can pick up on this.


NOW IS COME SALVATION. What do you think is going on?

Rev 12
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
If you look over in Rev 6 you will see the signs of Matt 24. You will also see THE STARS FALL FROM HEAVEN. That is when Satan is cast down. Here we see that there will be believers alive at the coming of Christ and salvation.
Matt 24
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

So the question is who overcame Satan by the blood of the lamb. Those that overcame him by the blood of the lamb are the ones that were being accused when Satan was accusing them before our God day and night. That mean when he was in the presence of God..........not when he was cast down. So the ones that overcame him by the blood of the lamb were the ones being accused by him day and night BEFORE he was cast down.

After he was cast down, he went after the woman..........ISRAEL.


Are you saying that Satan is now in heaven in the presence of God, and Christ, and the souls of our dead Brothers and Sisters?

Notice that chapter 12 comes after "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18.


The book is not in chronological order, because we also find the birth and death of Christ in chapter 12.

.
 
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Are you saying that Satan is now in heaven in the presence of God, and Christ, and the souls of our dead Brothers and Sisters?

Notice that chapter 12 comes after "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18.


The book is not in chronological order, because we also find the birth and death of Christ in chapter 12.
.
Rev 12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Sorry........I was not very good with my tenses.

Everyone thinks that these verses mean that Satan is cast out of heaven and goes after the Church.

The ones that overcame him by the blood of the lamb were the ones that were being accused before he is cast out of heaven. Once he is cast out, he goes after Israel as both the church and the 12 tribes that are scattered will have received SALVATION at His comingS.
 
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BABerean2

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Rev 12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Sorry........I was not very good with my tenses.

Everyone thinks that these verses mean that Satan is cast out of heaven and goes after the Church.

The ones that overcame him by the blood of the lamb were the ones that were being accused before he is cast out of heaven. Once he is cast out, he goes after Israel as both the church and the 12 tribes that are scattered will have received SALVATION at His comingS.

Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


Verse 5 above reveals that the first part of the chapter is a history lesson, which includes the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ.
It includes Satan's attempt to use Herod to destroy the Christ-child.
Joseph took the child's mother, and the child, and "fled" (Matthew 2:13) to Egypt.

We find below that the wicked angels are not now in heaven.

2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.



.
 
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Calminian

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It all depends on where the emphasis is placed in the passage.
Did you also consider the following?


Can you have the time for the dead to be judged in the verse below, without a resurrection of the dead? This occurs right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The judgment of the dead comes at the end of Revelation 20.


Based on the fact that Christ returns in Revelation 16:15-16, and also in chapter 19, we know the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.


Based on Matthew 25:31-46, no mortals will be left alive on the planet after the sheep and goat judgment. The beginning of the passage indicates it occurs at the Second Coming.
This agrees with 2 Timothy 4:1.

Based on 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, Christ returns "in flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know God.
The fire comes at the end of Revelation 20.

.

Yes, but now you're running from the actual passage. I want to know why you've chosen to believe one part of the passage is spiritual and the other physical. Try to focus like a laser on the actual text itself.

Rev. 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.​

Focus on the term, "the rest." What do you think that means? The rest were not resurrected until after the thousand years.

You're suggesting it is proper to ignore this term. Can you explain why? So far you've merely ignored this passage and hopped to other texts.
 
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StevenMerten

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Hey Steven,
First, let me say that I am very, very impressed that you, being Catholic, would quote so many scriptures. Usually, Catholics stay far from the Bible as when they read the Bible, they tend to leave the Catholic church. You seem to have this grand ending for the Catholic church all worked out. I think there will be a different ending. Let's take a look at the
woman that dresses in purple and scarlet
and has a golden cup in her hand.
Hello CW,
Well thank you for the compliment.

The Harlot of Babylon is Ephraim's descendants who are the white race of today. I have a whole chapter on her, with a massive amount of scriptures, if you care to visit.
Broken Hearted God; The Fall of the 'Harlot of Babylon'

The 'Harlot of Babylon' is Ephraim's descendants. Ephraim is Joseph's son and the last one, (Abraham to Isaac, Isaac to Jacob, Jacob to Ephraim), to be given the Blessing of Abraham. The twelve sons of Jacob, Including Judah, father of the Jews of today, were bypassed by the Blessing of Abraham. The Blessing of Abraham is: Myriads of descendants, will grow to become a multitude of nations, will possess world dominant power in the form a a multitude of nations, will have great wealth, and, of course, they will biologically look like the Jewish race.

Ephraim, bearing the Blessing of Abraham, dominates the House of Israel. Due to the massive sins of Israel, God ripped the House of Israel out of the Promised Land in 722 B.C. and scattered them to the nations. 135 years later God ripped the House of Judah out of the Promised land and scattered them to the nations. However, to retain Christ's lineage to king David, they retained their lineage and are not lost. We know who the Jews are today, we do not know who the House of Israel is today, but seeing that the House of Israel still bears the Blessing of Abraham, we can easily see that the white race is the House of Israel today, who is the Harlot of Babylon.

You didn't really think that the 18 million Jews on earth today is God's fulfillment of His Promise to Abraham that Abraham would have myriads of descendants, 'like the sands of the sea', did you?

When Jesus commissions His disciples, He tells them to bypass the neighboring towns and instead, to go seek out the 'lost tribes of Israel'. Christ's Church took root in Rome, where the 'Harlot of Babylon', Ephraim's descendants, were busy, making use of the 'Blessing of Abraham', and they were out conquering the world.

So yes, Christianity, both Protestant and Catholic, as well as Orthodox, are dominated by the 'Harlot of Babylon', Ephraim's descendants, who are the white race.

'Ephraim is made a waste', 'Rachel mourns at the loss of her children', and 'Joseph's body grows thin', at the great chastisement of Armageddon, because God has a big target on the rebellious child Ephraim, aka 'The Harlot of Babylon'. 'Foreigners will rebuild the Restored Temple of Israel'

Ephraim's descendants, 'The Harlot of Babylon', fall from world dominant power, as Jesus takes over as King and Ruler of the world. The Catholic Church is made up of all races from all nations. Jesus will Rule with and through His Church, the Catholic Church.

Revelation 17:1
Then one of the seven angels who were holding the seven bowls came and said to me, "Come here. I will show you the judgment on the great harlot who lives near the many waters. The kings of the earth have had intercourse with her, and the inhabitants of the earth became drunk on the wine of her harlotry. Then he carried me away in spirit to a deserted place where I saw a woman seated on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names, with seven heads and ten horns. The woman was wearing purple and scarlet and adorned with gold, precious stones, and pearls. She held in her hand a gold cup that was filled with the abominable and sordid deeds of her harlotry. On her forehead was written a name, which is a mystery, "Babylon the great, the mother of harlots and of the abominations of the earth." I saw that the woman was drunk on the blood of the holy ones and on the blood of the witnesses to Jesus.
 
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BABerean2

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Yes, but now you're running from the actual passage. I want to know why you've chosen to believe one part of the passage is spiritual and the other physical. Try to focus like a laser on the actual text itself.

Rev. 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.​

Focus on the term, "the rest." What do you think that means? The rest were not resurrected until after the thousand years.

You're suggesting it is proper to ignore this term. Can you explain why? So far you've merely ignored this passage and hopped to other texts.

Where are souls found?
Therefore, the scene is taking place in heaven.
Are there souls of our dead Brothers and Sisters living with Christ in heaven now?


Remember that "the time of the judgment of the dead" is in Revelation 11:18.
Can you have a judgment of the dead, without a resurrection of the dead?
How does that fact fit into this passage? We cannot just ignore it.

Is this chapter full of symbolic language, or is it all "literal" ?

Can Satan be bound with a steel chain from the hardware store, or was he bound with a chain made of Christ's blood?

Is Satan a giant flying lizard, or is he a fallen angel?

Can you contain Satan in a hole in the ground with a lid on it containing a sign which says...

"Do not disturb for 1,000 years" ?


Based on John 5:27-30, is Christ the judge?

The end of verse 4 can go with the end of verse 5, based on John 5:24.


Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (What is the "second death" in John chapter 5?)
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
(See the bodily resurrection and judgment of "all" the dead in John 5:27-30.)
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


Php_4:3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life. (Are Christians found in the book of life, based on this verse?)

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parousia70

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I do not care one scintilla of a bit what that individual has to say.
Stop placing you're faith in man and commentaries.
So, your advice to folks here is not to place our faith in anything you have to say?

Fair enough. I'm Happy to oblige.
 
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ItIsFinished!

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So, your advice to folks here is not to place our faith in anything you have to say?

Fair enough. I'm Happy to oblige.
No. Actually that is what you are saying.
I was referring to an individual that teaches falsehoods . I do not teach falsehoods.
But , thank you for you're lovely attitude.
Sometimes you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
(wink)
 
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StevenMerten

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I think there will be a different ending. Let's take a look at the woman that dresses in purple and scarlet
and has a golden cup in her hand.

Revelation 17:1
Then one of the seven angels who were holding the seven bowls came and said to me,​

"Come here. I will show you the judgment on the great harlot who lives near the many waters. The kings of the earth have had intercourse with her, and the inhabitants of the earth became drunk on the wine of her harlotry.

King Tut DNA more European than Egyptian: geneticists
Hello CW,
DNA testing has shown that king Tut was a white guy. King Tut ruled over Egypt during the time Ephraim's descendants were in captivity there. The 'Harlot of Babylon' having intercourse with the kings of the world is literal.

Abraham's wife Sarah is the one God promised that her descendants would have world dominant power. It did not take long for this to occur, starting with Rachael's son Joseph. Sarah was a knock out 10, gorgeous woman. Abraham took his wife Sarah to Egypt in search of food. Immediately, the Pharaoh had Sarah brought to the palace. The Pharaoh's intentions were to procreate little, world dominant power, baby Pharaohs with her. God intervened and had Sarah brought back to her husband Abraham.

It is not hard to understand just how Sarah's offspring rise to power and are chosen to reproduce over other races of descendants.

Genesis 12:10 Abram and Sarai in Egypt.
There was famine in the land; so Abram went down to Egypt to sojourn there, since the famine in the land was severe. When he was about to enter Egypt, he said to his wife Sarai: "I know that you are a beautiful woman. When the Egyptians see you, they will say, 'She is his wife'; then they will kill me, but let you live. Please say, therefore, that you are my sister, so that I may fare well on your account and my life may be spared for your sake."
When Abram arrived in Egypt, the Egyptians saw that the woman was very beautiful. When Pharaoh; officials saw her they praised her to Pharaoh, and the woman was taken into Pharaoh's house. Abram fared well on her account, and he acquired sheep, oxen, male and female servants, male and female donkeys, and camels. But the LORD struck Pharaoh and his household with severe plagues because of Sarai, Abram; wife. Then Pharaoh summoned Abram and said to him: "How could you do this to me! Why did you not tell me she was your wife? Why did you say, 'She is my sister,' so that I took her for my wife? Now, here is your wife. Take her and leave!"
 
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ewq1938

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2Ti 4:1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:


That's the living saints and the dead saints...the unsaved are not judged at this time which Rev 20 also shows.
 
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BABerean2

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That's the living saints and the dead saints...the unsaved are not judged at this time which Rev 20 also shows.

If you cut the word "all" out of John 5:27-30, and you also cut "the time of the judgment of the dead" out of Revelation 11:18, you might be able to make that work.

Also, do not forget to cut out Matthew 25:31-46, and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10...


.
 
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