You have to watch that Rapture mindset

[jgr]

Actually it didn't take 1800 years whatsoever to "find" it.
It has always been in The Word of God.

How would defenders of the faith for 1800 years miss the insights that you claim to have?

 

[ItIsFinished!]

How would defenders of the faith for 1800 years miss the insights that you claim to have?

I don't claim to have anything aside Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.
And, nothing was "missed" regarding the removal of the Church.
Paul himself wrote about it .
And the early church taught and wrote about it as well.
I do not know what defenders of the faith you speak of.

 

[Choose Wisely]

The only replacement theology going on here is the theology that replaces Faithful, Believing Israel with Unfaithful Christ Rejecting Israel as Heirs to the Promises.

Maybe, just maybe.........Yeah
Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

[jgr]

I do not know what defenders of the faith you speak of.

Martyr, Clement, Tertullian, Ignatius, Papias, Polycarp, Irenaeus, Eusebius, Chrysostom, Wyclif, Calvin, Luther and the Reformers, the Wesleys, Edwards, Whitefield, and numerous others.

These brethren, without whom the spiritual freedoms that you, I, and this forum enjoy would not exist.

Defenders of the faith.

Some claim Irenaeus advocated a pretrib rapture. But the Pre-trib Research Center itself denies it.

No pretrib rapturism from any of them.

 

[ItIsFinished!]

Martyr, Clement, Tertullian, Ignatius, Papias, Polycarp, Irenaeus, Eusebius, Chrysostom, Wyclif, Calvin, Luther and the Reformers, the Wesleys, Edwards, Whitefield, and numerous others.

These brethren, without whom the spiritual freedoms that you, I, and this forum enjoy would not exist.

Defenders of the faith.

Some claim Irenaeus advocated a pretrib rapture. But the Pre-trib Research Center itself denies it.

No pretrib rapturism from any of them.

My liberty comes from Jesus Christ, not man.
They are not the infallible Word of God.

 

[jgr]

They are not the infallible Word of God.

Are you?

 

[BABerean2]

until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

What happens below after "the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled"?


Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

.

 

[Choose Wisely]

​

Hello Choose Wisely,

Am I to understand you, that you reject Jesus' Direct Command that His Apostolic Successors will Rule over Israel, and the ends of the earth, when Jesus Comes into His Power on earth?

​

Hey Steven,
Am I to understand you, that you are stuffing words in my mouth. If not, can you please show my quote that causes you to draw such a conclusion.

Additionally, am I to understand you have not addressed the issue of the great multitude in heaven at the marriage supper that returns to earth with the Messiah.

 

[ItIsFinished!]

Are you?

Why would you asked such a ridiculous question?

 

[Choose Wisely]

What happens below after "the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled"?


Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

.

LOL, Please save that jargon for some rookie that doesn't know the difference between the times of the Gentiles and the fullness of the Gentiles come in.

And the fact that you know the difference is just another example of your desire to lead others astray. You know what you're doing, I know what you're doing and most importantly.....He knows what you're doing.

 

[jgr]

Why would you asked such a ridiculous question?

Why is it ridiculous?

 

[ItIsFinished!]

Why is it ridiculous?

If I have to answer that for you then there is no reason for any further discussion.
That question is also ridiculous.
Play you're games with someone else.
I have no time for that foolishness.

 

[jgr]

If I have to answer that for you then there is no reason for any further discussion.
That question is also ridiculous.
Play you're games with someone else.
I have no time for that foolishness.

Sure.

So the truth that distills from our brief conversation is that there was no pretrib rapturism advocated by the defenders of the faith for 1800 years. And there were many more than just one of them. And virtually to a man, they were both spiritually and intellectually gifted. And many of them paid for their defense of the faith with their lives.

So there's a very high probability that collectively, they understood and realized something that you do not.

To wit, that there is no pretrib rapture.

 

[ItIsFinished!]

Sure.

So the truth that distills from our brief conversation is that there was no pretrib rapturism advocated by the defenders of the faith for 1800 years. And there were many more than just one of them. And virtually to a man, they were both spiritually and intellectually gifted. And many of them paid for their defense of the faith with their lives.

So there's a very high probability that collectively, they understood and realized something that you do not.

To wit, that there is no pretrib rapture.

Thanks for you're opinion.
You're faith in man is bewildering.
And , you are wrong. The early church actually did teach both post and pre-trib.
The Scriptures clearly teach a removal of the Church before the tribulation to come.
You can continue to put you're faith in men and commentaries and I will continue to put my faith in The Word of God.
The Bride of Christ WILL NOT be here during the tribulation.

 

[Billy Evmur]

"What do YOU expect Jesus will do when He returns? Catch us all up and kill everyone else? That is the same mindset that the Jews had when He came first time."

1st Thessalonians 4

The Return of the Lord

13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

2nd Thessalonians 2

1Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter presuming to be from us and alleging that the day of the Lord has already come.

At His 2nd coming all the saved go with Jesus to Heaven.

1 Thessalonians 2

7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and abolish by the majesty of His arrival.

The 1,000 years (is in Heaven) and begins after the 1st resurrection (all are dead on earth).

After the 1,000 years is the 2nd resurrection happens. All the dead unsaved are resurrected.

During the 1,000 years there is the heavenly reign and the earthly, The church will reign with Christ in heaven and the seed of Abraham will reign with Him on earth...no all are not dead after the 1st resurrection, Antichrist and his hordes who come with him up to Jerusalem are dead.

Then begins the great Jewish hope when the nations will flow to Jerusalem to learn the ways of the God of Jacob, it is the time when the rest of mankind come in.

 

[BABerean2]

The Bride of Christ WILL NOT be here during the tribulation.

The New Covenant: Bob George

.

 

[ItIsFinished!]

I do not care one scintilla of a bit what that individual has to say.
Stop placing you're faith in man and commentaries.
You are obsessed with that man which explains a lot.
The Bride of Christ will not be here during the tribulation.
Gods Word. Not man.

 

[BABerean2]

Please save that jargon for some rookie that doesn't know the difference between the times of the Gentiles and the fullness of the Gentiles come in.

Why don't you explain the difference for us?

.

 

[BABerean2]

I do not care one scintilla of a bit what that individual has to say.
Stop placing you're faith in man and commentaries.

Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

Do you care what God has to say about the New Covenant?

.

 

[jgr]

Thanks for you're opinion.
You're faith in man is bewildering.
And , you are wrong. The early church actually did teach both post and pre-trib.
The Scriptures clearly teach a removal of the Church before the tribulation to come.
You can continue to put you're faith in men and commentaries and I will continue to put my faith in The Word of God.
The Bride of Christ WILL NOT be here during the tribulation.

Rapture Wimpism

Any student of Scripture with even a cursory knowledge of the NT Church knows that tribulation in the form of persecution, suffering, and death has been the lot of the Church ever since its birth. From its persecution at the hands of the Jews, to that under the Roman emperors and empires, to that today under Islam and other ideologies; the Church's experience with tribulation has been unrelenting, and its death toll over the millennia is counted in the tens of millions.

In the NT, we see in the book of Acts a complete account of how the disciples and Christ's followers were hated and persecuted as Jesus had predicted (Matthew 24:9). In Acts 4: "And they laid hands on them [Peter and John], and put them in prison" (verse 3). In Acts 5, they were "beaten" (verse 40). As they departed from the "council", they rejoiced "that they were counted worthy to suffer for his name"(verse 41). In Acts 7, Stephen was killed for his stand (verses 54-60). In Acts 8:1 "There was a great persecution against the church." In Acts 16, Paul and Silas were beaten and cast into prison. In Acts 21, persecution resulted in Paul being beaten, and brought before rulers, before whom he testified (Acts 22). In Acts 22:19 we read that Paul confessed that prior to his conversion, he had "imprisoned and beaten in every synagogue" those who believed in Christ.

There was, and is, no lack of tribulation for the NT Church.

But deplorably, we see today a generation of what can best be described as “rapture wimps.” This generation of North American believers, the most “molycoddled and milquetoast” in the history of the Christian Church, seems in large part to believe that it is also entitled to escape the trials and privations which have beset the historic Church, and to be “...carried to the skies on flowery beds of ease” as the beloved hymn “Am I a Soldier of the Cross” describes.

The following partial enumeration of NT tribulation references...:

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

2 Corinthians 1:4
Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

1 Thessalonians 3:4
For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

Revelation 1:9
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

...makes it clear that there is no room for “rapture wimps” in the Christian Church. In solidarity with other believers in parts of the world who suffer tribulation even as we read this, we must be prepared to, as did and do these, “fight to win the prize and sail through bloody seas”, as we see the hymnwriter further pen.


God has promised...:

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

...that we can be triumphant in Him even in the midst of tribulation. He promises us all of His grace and resources to make this a reality.


But the promise is only for those who refuse to be “rapture wimps.”