"You Are Now Leaving The American Sector"

[Hammster]

I didn't answer your non-sequitur question of "should we have open borders?" because it has nothing to do with what I said about hearing other conservatives cruelly disparaging immigrants (illegal or not) and specific groups of people (LGBT, Muslims, other non-Christians, and often times minorities).

In my other post, I said...

"It seems to me that 'love your neighbor as yourself' and 'love your enemies' are two commands that have been tossed out the window when it comes to immigration (illegal or not) and specific groups of people (LGBT, Muslims, other non-Christians, and often times minorities). I've been a conservative for the majority of my life and I've noticed this particular pattern among many of the conservatives (e.g. WASPs and Catholic) whom I know either in real life or I've encountered online. I'm not saying all of the conservatives I know, but there's enough to make me feel unsettled and concerned about it."

What exactly does "should we have open borders?" have to do with what I said in my post above?

On the other hand, my question to the OP was "Did you complain like this when Trump had fences put up around the White House last June when he was still in office or is your alleged complaint nothing more than a political potshot aimed at Biden?" I also posted some news articles to back myself up.

Unlike your question to me, my question to the OP was in correlation to fences blocking off the White House. I simply wanted to know if the OP was as put out with Trump for the fences he had put around the WH as he is now with Biden. I could be mistaken, but if I were to guess, I'd say the answer is no.

Calling a non sequitur doesn’t make it so.

 

[Hammster]

It merely debunks the fake "illegal aliens are criminals" story.

They are illegal, though. Just like speeders. Maybe we should stop giving traffic tickets as well.

 

[The Barbarian]

They are illegal, though.

Yep. Just like someone who parks in a no parking zone. But not a criminal. As you see, illegal aliens are much less likely to be criminals than native born American citizens are likely to be criminals.

Just like speeders.

Actually, speeding can be a crime.

In most cases, a speeding ticket or similar moving violation is not a criminal offense. Speeding is typically an infraction that carries a potential fine but no jail time. A ticket may stay on your driver’s record for several years, but it will not show up as a conviction on your criminal record. But in some serious cases, a prosecutor may charge you with a crime for speeding.
Is Speeding a Crime? - Legal Definitions

The point is, while being here illegally is not a crime, it is illegal. That's why we remove such people when we find them. The point is that doing that tends to be harmful to the American economy. This is why the law needs to be changed. A law that harms society is one that needs to be changed.

Maybe we should stop giving traffic tickets as well.

As with illegal aliens when we find them, we need to enforce the law. The point is the law actually damages the economy, and therefore needs to be changed. On the other hand, stopping people from driving at an excessive speed makes streets safer, and therefore, the law should remain.

 

[Hammster]

Yep. Just like someone who parks in a no parking zone. But not a criminal. As you see, illegal aliens are much less likely to be criminals than native born American citizens are likely to be criminals.



Actually, speeding can be a crime.

In most cases, a speeding ticket or similar moving violation is not a criminal offense. Speeding is typically an infraction that carries a potential fine but no jail time. A ticket may stay on your driver’s record for several years, but it will not show up as a conviction on your criminal record. But in some serious cases, a prosecutor may charge you with a crime for speeding.
Is Speeding a Crime? - Legal Definitions

The point is, while being here illegally is not a crime, it is illegal. That's why we remove such people when we find them. The point is that doing that tends to be harmful to the American economy. This is why the law needs to be changed. A law that harms society is one that needs to be changed.



As with illegal aliens when we find them, we need to enforce the law. The point is the law actually damages the economy, and therefore needs to be changed. On the other hand, stopping people from driving at an excessive speed makes streets safer, and therefore, the law should remain.

The law may damage the economy. Unfortunately that horse is out of the barn. But that doesn’t mean we need to keep letting other horses out just because the one is eating grass in the meadow. The next one might start eating the prized roses.

 

[The Barbarian]

The law may damage the economy.

Yep. As you saw in the data from Texas, the state makes billions on illegal aliens working there.

Unfortunately that horse is out of the barn.

Doesn't have to be. We have a law, which if fully enforced, would put us into a deep recession. Presently, the law is generally not being enforced, for lack of cooperation by businesses and other citizens, and because governments don't want to face the financial crisis. This is an unacceptable situation; the answer is to change the law so that it does not harm our economy.

But that doesn’t mean we need to keep letting other horses out just because the one is eating grass in the meadow.

It means we should find a way to make the process legal so that the economy can do well, foreign workers are not open to exploitation, and we can have a better handle on immigration. That, BTW, was Ronald Reagan's rationale for immigration reform. It was a pretty good idea.

 

[Hammster]

Yep. As you saw in the data from Texas, the state makes billions on illegal aliens working there.



Doesn't have to be. We have a law, which if fully enforced, would put us into a deep recession. Presently, the law is generally not being enforced, for lack of cooperation by businesses and other citizens, and because governments don't want to face the financial crisis. This is an unacceptable situation; the answer is to change the law so that it does not harm our economy.



It means we should find a way to make the process legal so that the economy can do well, foreign workers are not open to exploitation, and we can have a better handle on immigration. That, BTW, was Ronald Reagan's rationale for immigration reform. It was a pretty good idea.

It would help if we could close the door first. Then handle the rest.

 

[The Barbarian]

It would help if we could close the door first. Then handle the rest.

I don't think it's going to be that simple. Remember the "big beautiful wall" were were promised? Wouldn't have worked, even if it could have been done.

We just went through four years of "getting tough on immigrants." And what's changed?

First, fix the law.

 

[Hammster]

I don't think it's going to be that simple. Remember the "big beautiful wall" were were promised? Wouldn't have worked, even if it could have been done.

We just went through four years of "getting tough on immigrants." And what's changed?

First, fix the law.

It could work if everyone agreed that it should be a priority.

 

[The Barbarian]

It could work if everyone agreed that it should be a priority.

More likely, we'll go on with this charade of a law everyone knows is faulty, but no politician has the backbone to try to fix.

 

[The Barbarian]

From the US Chamber of Commerce:

“Continue to push for comprehensive immigration reform that: increases security; has an earned pathway to legalization for undocumented workers already contributing to our economy, provided that they are law-abiding and prepared to embrace the obligations and values of our society; creates a carefully monitored guest or essential worker program to fill the growing gaps in America's workforce recognizing that, in some cases, permanent immigrants will be needed to fill these gaps; and refrains from unduly burdening employers with worker verification systems that are underfunded or unworkable.”

This is why it's not going to stop. The GOP would dry up without financial support of businesses. They'll talk and posture for the white nationalists, but when push comes to shove, they don't do anything effective to stop it.