Yom Kippur/The Rapture connection?!

pat34lee · Sep 17, 2012

yedida said:
I've heard since that discussion that the no-altering doesn't actually apply to animals that are actual "pets," not just donisticated (non-wild) animals. To keep related males/females in a home would require altering; these would be "pets" and not working animals. I can't remember who it was that told me this, ChavaK maybe?, can't really remember.....Perhaps that person could speak again so we can get this straight? Thanks.

As to the other, I pulled that stunt once and only once. It seems to me like just a way around what God commanded. It comes down to do we want to obey or just "appear" to be obeying. In whose eyes are we fearing, God's or man's? Before whom do we want to be righteous, God or man? (I spent a long time struggling with this, since it was deemed "alright" by the rabbis. I don't think anymore that God deems it alright, though I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time .))

The link from before says any alteration of pets is forbidden, from neutering to declawing (inhumane anyway, it is like cutting off the ends of your fingers to trim your nails) to bobbing ears and tails.

These rabbinic decrees are a way for them to get around following the law as written, which is deception, although I wonder how they think that YHWH doesn't see it. The same thing goes on in Israel as far as I know, with the land sabbatical. The rabbis allow the land owners to 'sell' the land in the seventh year, so it can be worked by the new owner, who then sells it back. It denies the land its rest by fraud, and they will pay for it eventually.

yedida · Sep 17, 2012

pat34lee said:
The link from before says any alteration of pets is forbidden, from neutering to declawing (inhumane anyway, it is like cutting off the ends of your fingers to trim your nails) to bobbing ears and tails.

These rabbinic decrees are a way for them to get around following the law as written, which is deception, although I wonder how they think that YHWH doesn't see it. The same thing goes on in Israel as far as I know, with the land sabbatical. The rabbis allow the land owners to 'sell' the land in the seventh year, so it can be worked by the new owner, who then sells it back. It denies the land its rest by fraud, and they will pay for it eventually.

I can't speak much on the ears and tails alterations but I can't see any good to it, just seems to be cosmetic and I think illegal in most parts (here in the states) now. Declawing, ooooh yes, against it 100%. Can even affect a cat's personality, they realize they've lost their main avenue of defense - they're not stupid. And it's soooo inhumane!
I was talking about reproduction altering only, nothing else.

Sadly, I fear you're quite right about Israel. We humans just never seem to learn, do we?

DennisTate · Sep 23, 2012

visionary said:
In my research, the feast of trumpets points to the two witnesses to testify of it's start [think Rev 11], it points to the opening of the scrolls [think Rev 10] so while they have a roll in the soon coming it will not be the second coming or the resurrection itself.

Trumpets are used for announcing a variety of things like ...

- warnings of enemies advancing, the charge, or retreat, and when the battle is over
- assemblies, movement of the camp
- coming feasts, the temple services are about to begin and their end
- coronations of kings, death of the king, or the birth of a king, and the wedding

Trumpets in scripture is used to describe the sound of God's voice.

Visionary, I just did a search for Shofar Jewish wedding and ran into this statement. I am curious what you think it may mean for latter day events?

Aspects of the Betrothal

After the couple had undergone - Mikveh hwqm (immersion) , each separately, they would appear together under the Huppah - or canopy - and in public they would express their intention of becoming betrothed or engaged. From ancient times - the wedding canopy has been a symbol of a new household being planned - (Ps. 19:5; Joel 2:16). While under the Huppah the couple participated in a ceremony in which some items of value were exchanged - such as rings, and a cup of wine was shared to seal the betrothal vows. After the ceremony - the couple was considered to have entered into the betrothal agreement. This period was to last for one year. During this time the couple was considered married - yet did not have sexual relations - and continued to live separately until the end of the betrothal. We see this time of betrothal illustrated in the gospels as reflected in the lives of Yoseph and Miriam - (see Mat. 1:18-25).

Jewish Wedding Customs and the Bride of Messiah

DennisTate · Sep 23, 2012

Yusuphhai said:
Happy Rosh Hashanah!

As the Book of Life is opened to a new page, may you be inscribed for a year of good health and happiness.

quote from:《Restoration-Return the Torah of God To Disciples of Jesus》

Appointed Time Christological Meaning

Sabbath (Shabbat) (Lev. 23:2-3) Sabbath rest of creation, the final redemption and 1000-year reign of Messiah
Passover (Pesach) and Unleavened Bread (Lev. 23:4-8) The Last Supper, Messiah our Passover Lamb, His death and burial
First Fruits of the Barley (Omer) (Lev. 23:9-14) Messiahs resurrection.
Pentecost (Shavuot) (Lev. 23:15-21) The outpouring of Messiahs Spirit just as the Torah was given at Sinai.
Long dry summer months without appointments Messiahs absence.
Feast of Trumpets (Yom Teruah, Rosh HaShanah) (Lev. 23:23-25) The trumpet blast of the return of Messiah. The trumpets of the last days.
Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) (Lev. 23:26-32) The atoning work of Messiahs blood. The day of final judgment.
The Feast of Booths (Sukkot) (Lev. 23:33-44) Sabbath rest of creation, the final redemption and 1,000-year reign of Messiah who will tabernacle among us.

Great post Yusuphhai!

Here is a scripture that I have been scratching my head over the full meaning of this for years?!

Is the raising up of King DAvid in our time period in any way similar to how John the Baptist was somehow a raising up of an Elijah?????

Jeremiah 30:9 But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.

If a mere human in our time period can attain what could be termed "Cyrus consciousness" and actually go around setting captives free, not for price or reward....then surely a mere human in our time period might hit what could be termed a Davidic level of thought and behaviour?!

John 14:12 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

I have head that astonishing miracles happen on a regular basis with the underground church in China!?

visionary · Sep 23, 2012

DennisTate said:
Visionary, I just did a search for Shofar Jewish wedding and ran into this statement. I am curious what you think it may mean for latter day events?

Jewish Wedding Customs and the Bride of Messiah

Interesting,... I have not heard this one, but can see where Joseph and Mary could have fulfilled this type of covenant relationship. As to Yeshua and His Yom Kippur wedding... it will have to be one of those things I put on the back burner and allowed to simmer. I will keep my eyes open to see if the Lord will fill in more details one way or another on this.

Gxg (G²) · Sep 23, 2012

DennisTate said:
Jewish Wedding Customs and the Bride of Messiah

Interesting to consider...

Gxg (G²) · Sep 23, 2012

DennisTate said:
Cool!

I got an amazing message a while back that clarified to me that there are actually THREE significant goats for each Yom Kippur rather than merely two?!?!

Intriguing message, Bruh

Laureate · Sep 23, 2012

yedida said:
It cannot be reconciled. Therefore, either Paul was a liar or, my belief, that, because his writings were hard to understand anyway it was easy to tweak them to make them say what someone (Rome) wanted them to say to make up their own religion. And I believe that's exactly what they did. That's why we must take everything in the Greek writings and hold them up to Torah. Just that simple.

I agree, bring everything before the light of the Torah!

Notwithstanding, I missed the point of contention, can someone simply the matter for me?

yedida · Sep 23, 2012

Laureate said:
I agree, bring everything before the light of the Torah!

Notwithstanding, I missed the point of contention, can someone simply the matter for me?

Go back and re-read it. It should be plain to see the contradiction between the passages.

Laureate · Sep 24, 2012

DennisTate said:
Yes, the Book of Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel cause chills to go up and down my spine!

The only New Testament writing that has a similar effect is the Book of John/Yohannan!

Back when I was a teenager the Book of Revelation/The Apocalypse scared the daylights out of me but now when I read it I keep wondering how much of it could really turn out to be a metaphor.

For example one third of the grass being burned up....well...all flesh is as grass and so if one third of humanity genuinely repented and turned to God.....the prophecies could be altered so radically as to be positive beyond our wildest imagination????!!!!

Revelation 1:3
Blessed/Happy is he that reads, and they that hear/ShaMAh/understand the words of this prophecy, and keeps those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

According to this passage, if the message you get from reading the book of Revelations does not leave you Happy/blessed then you can rest assure you did not get it properly, but now what is truly terrifying is, that you still got something, just not the truth/light, which brings us to the question how dark is your darkness? where in Babylon we ask, how bright is your light?

(using 'you' & 'your' in the theoretical sense)

Laureate · Sep 24, 2012

Yahu said:
So to answer your question, I DON'T.

To truely be Messianic or Christian is to be Anointed, it's a state of being, and reality which we enter, though we be born again, we are not the so-called, born again Christians, though we believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit, we are not the so-called Baptist, though we observe the Sabbaths, we are not the so-called seventh day adventist. though we are Witnesses of YHWH, are are not the so-called Jehovah's Witnesses, though our congregation believes in one Divine Author, and that his Word is one as well, but that does not mean we are the so-called Uni-vers(e) -a'l Church/Catholics, of course, we couldn't rightfully consider ourselves to be Anointed, if we never RECEIVE wonderful things from our (heavenly) Father, but that does not make us the so-called Kebalist, etc.,

We also take root, or have our roots in the native tongue(s) of the Scriptures, and Gratefully-Celebrate-the Manuel of YHWH, yet we are not Judaism, and though we believe that Yeshua HaMaShiakh/Jesus the Christ is the Son of Elohym whom the scriptures foretold would come, but we are not mainstream Christianity, we are Messianic.

Though we do not subscribe to defining ourselves by a few scriptural doctrines, we are not the so-called Non-denominationalist (who fail to live up to the true/spiritual meaning of the word), we are Messianic, even if you do not refer to yourself as Messianic, we are capable of recognizing a tree by the fruit it bears, hint, hint

Laureate · Sep 24, 2012

Yahu said:
Not likely. The judgments of Revelation are physical events with world wide consequences. The entire face of the earth will be altered with every mountain and island out of its place. The destruction that occurs during the tribulation will be greater then anything that has occurred since the creation, including greater then the flood.

You have to tie in all the old testament prophecies concerning that judgement to get the full picture. Revelation just gives the outer pieces. It is like a puzzle and you have to fill in the pieces from all over scripture.

puzzle piece upon puzzle piece, puzzle piece upon puzzle piece, here a little and there a little...

except, our puzzle pieces are precepts, and verses.

Laureate · Sep 24, 2012

yedida said:
Go back and re-read it. It should be plain to see the contradiction between the passages.

That's just what I did, I see a lot of wonderful fellowship has taken place in this thread, like a good book, I couldn't put the Droid down, fact is I'm just now catching up with the latest post's here

Gxg (G²) · Sep 24, 2012

Laureate said:
To truely be Messianic or Christian is to be Anointed, it's a state of being, and reality which we enter, though we be born again, we are not the so-called, born again Christians, though we believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit, we are not the so-called Baptist, though we observe the Sabbaths, we are not the so-called seventh day adventist. though we are Witnesses of YHWH, are are not the so-called Jehovah's Witnesses, though our congregation believes in one Divine Author, and that his Word is one as well, but that does not mean we are the so-called Uni-vers(e) -a'l Church/Catholics, of course, we couldn't rightfully consider ourselves to be Anointed, if we never RECEIVE wonderful things from our (heavenly) Father, but that does not make us the so-called Kebalist, etc.,

All of it about relationship with Messiah

Laureate · Sep 24, 2012

Easy G (G²);61445653 said:
All of it about relationship with Messiah

That's right!
I was wrestling with how to end my post on a more humble note, for we are all prone to stumble, and I do not feel we are better than anyone else just because we refer to ourselves as Messianic, for we all have the ability to please and displease our Maker, and we bare our shame just like everyone else.

Gxg (G²) · Sep 24, 2012

Laureate said:
That's right!
I was wrestling with how to end my post on a more humble note, for we are all prone to stumble, and I do not feel we are better than anyone else just because we refer to ourselves as Messianic, for we all have the ability to please and displease our Maker, and we bare our shame just like everyone else.

Part of me is always reminded of the following:

Mark 9:38
[ Whoever Is Not Against Us Is for Us ] Teacher, said John, we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us
.
39 Do not stop him, Jesus said. For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward.
Mark 9:37-39

Being Messianic doesn't give one extra brownie points with the Lord over others, nor can one ever assume that others outside of that are in any way "lesser" as a whole.

Laureate · Sep 24, 2012

Easy G (G²);61447033 said:
Part of me is always reminded of the following:

Mark 9:38
[ Whoever Is Not Against Us Is for Us ] Teacher, said John, we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us
.
39 Do not stop him, Jesus said. For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward.
Mark 9:37-39

Being Messianic doesn't give one extra brownie points with the Lord over others, nor can one ever assume that others outside of that are in any way "lesser" as a whole.

Good example, and well put!

DennisTate · Sep 26, 2012

Laureate said:
To truely be Messianic or Christian is to be Anointed, it's a state of being, and reality which we enter, though we be born again, we are not the so-called, born again Christians, though we believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit, we are not the so-called Baptist, though we observe the Sabbaths, we are not the so-called seventh day adventist. though we are Witnesses of YHWH, are are not the so-called Jehovah's Witnesses, though our congregation believes in one Divine Author, and that his Word is one as well, but that does not mean we are the so-called Uni-vers(e) -a'l Church/Catholics, of course, we couldn't rightfully consider ourselves to be Anointed, if we never RECEIVE wonderful things from our (heavenly) Father, but that does not make us the so-called Kebalist, etc.,

We also take root, or have our roots in the native tongue(s) of the Scriptures, and Gratefully-Celebrate-the Manuel of YHWH, yet we are not Judaism, and though we believe that Yeshua HaMaShiakh/Jesus the Christ is the Son of Elohym whom the scriptures foretold would come, but we are not mainstream Christianity, we are Messianic.

Though we do not subscribe to defining ourselves by a few scriptural doctrines, we are not the so-called Non-denominationalist (who fail to live up to the true/spiritual meaning of the word), we are Messianic, even if you do not refer to yourself as Messianic, we are capable of recognizing a tree by the fruit it bears, hint, hint

I've been giving this quite a bit of thought for a while now and yes....I agree that it is all about relationship!

I was decades struggling with the difference between a commandment, statute and judgment. When I finally figured out that judgments were administrative decisions that applied within a specific set of circumstances the entire Bible began to make so much more sense and became much easier to apply within my own circumstances and time period.

visionary · Sep 26, 2012

In today's society we find that Commandments of God are like our Constitution, the foundation upon which everything else is built upon. The statutes are the way that is applied. Often you can read in Numbers, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy and the rest of scripture of how the Commandments of God are to be kept and that is what statutes are. Judgment is like you said the application of the punishment for disobedience which God has reserved Himself to be the applicator after a short stint with Israel running it during their theocracy period.

DennisTate · Nov 3, 2012

visionary said:
In today's society we find that Commandments of God are like our Constitution, the foundation upon which everything else is built upon. The statutes are the way that is applied. Often you can read in Numbers, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy and the rest of scripture of how the Commandments of God are to be kept and that is what statutes are. Judgment is like you said the application of the punishment for disobedience which God has reserved Himself to be the applicator after a short stint with Israel running it during their theocracy period.

So true!

I have noticed that many of us who are deeply religious tend to make the mistake of using aspects of love for God to justify not really loving our neighbour and then people who do try to love their neighbour tend to use that as an excuse to do nothing specific toward God?!?!

Luke 10:25 ¶

And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Yom Kippur/The Rapture connection?!

Messianic

Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!

Newbie

Newbie

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)

whatisthebaytreeknown4? What's debate reknown for?

Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!

whatisthebaytreeknown4? What's debate reknown for?

whatisthebaytreeknown4? What's debate reknown for?

whatisthebaytreeknown4? What's debate reknown for?

whatisthebaytreeknown4? What's debate reknown for?

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)

whatisthebaytreeknown4? What's debate reknown for?

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)

whatisthebaytreeknown4? What's debate reknown for?

Newbie

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Newbie

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