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Yom Kippur/The Rapture connection?!

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by DennisTate, Apr 8, 2012.

  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    This is just a theory and I may be wrong but after being highly skeptical of the idea of a rapture for most of my life I am now open to the idea that the Rapture could fit in extremely well with the ultimate fulfillment of the Fast of Yom Kippur.


    I could not get my head around this idea until reading the NDE account of Dr. Richard Eby:



     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2012
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  2. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    My dad, Robert Tate died on January 1, 1990. He had NOT given his heart to Rabbi Jesus/Yahushua so far as I knew.

    Around that time I ran into the near death experience accounts through an article in Psychology Today. As I read several books by Dr. Raymond Moody I went into something of a philosophical/theological crisis as I encountered evidence that the "soul sleep" doctrine that I had been taught by evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong and his dad had almost certainly been terribly in error!

    I had been fasting on Yom Kippur since the late 1970's and I had always wondered what this verse could possibly mean:

     
  3. Avodat

    Avodat Contending for Biblical truth

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    But you'll never know, this side of eternity, what he did with his last breath. I've had people who were very critical that I do funeral services for people who are NOT believers - my answer is that we do not know they are non-believers. Their last breath may have been used to give themselves to Yeshua.
     
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  4. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Well said Avodat!

    Also the NDE account of former atheist Howard Storm sets something of a precedent for God being perhaps able to reach out to people even after they die?!?!
     
  5. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Rabbi ..... is one of the Sanhedrin Rabbi's responsible for the Noahide Movement. I was urged to contact him directly after participating on the official Sanhedrin discussion forum.

    The......indicates that I edited this message for content that might be irrelevant to this forum:


     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
  6. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    In a nutshell I have came to strongly suspect that Azazel is the fallen angel who will be somewhat like General Abner who brought the ten tribes over to King David or to Rav Shaul/Paul who repented of persecuting Christians and followers of God.

    I suspect that when the fallen angel Azazel returns to the God of Abraham with his whole heart...when Yom Kippur is completely fulfilled....then a major step will have been taken toward the ushering in of a truly new era of worldwide peace where even the eating habits of wild animals like lions will be altered!


    (Matthew 12)
     
  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    One of the major lessons of Yom Kippur is that once the blood of the Messiah covers our sins and errors they actually are transformed into an asset rather than a liability!

    Our worst mistakes...once we are led to genuine repentance and change...often give us a story that strikes a chord with others at a level that probably would not be so powerful if we had not fallen into that particular problem.

    I believe it was author Kenneth Hanson who wrote that in a sense Adam and Eve actually fell UPWARD!

    The Book of Enoch...if it is inspired.... records that Azazel at the least felt extreme shame and guilt over his sins:


     
  8. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    1Corinthians 5:5
    2Corinthians 12:7 ¶
     
  9. ananda

    ananda Early Buddhist

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    How do you reconcile this with what Messiah said?
    And having called His twelve apostles near, He gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every bodily weakness. Mt 10:1

    See, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions
    (σκορπίων/skorpions/pointed stinger), and over all the power of the enemy, and none at all shall hurt you. Lk 10:19
     
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  10. yedida

    yedida Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!

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    It cannot be reconciled. Therefore, either Paul was a liar or, my belief, that, because his writings were hard to understand anyway it was easy to tweak them to make them say what someone (Rome) wanted them to say to make up their own religion. And I believe that's exactly what they did. That's why we must take everything in the Greek writings and hold them up to Torah. Just that simple.
     
  11. daq

    daq Messianic

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    [size=+1]It is frightening to see that anyone would petition to 'volunteer' himself to become a scapegoat for another person and comes from the misunderstanding of not realizing that each of us does indeed have his own scapegoat. Therefore you cannot volunteer to be a scapegoat for someone else because that person already has, (or had) his own scapegoat. More frightening is that you petitioned such a thing knowing that the scapegoat is sent away with all of the sins upon its head, and apparently believing already, (by your other statements) that `Aza'zel is a fallen one. You cannot become a scapegoat for someone else because you already have your own: and yes, he may have already returned as you suggested. Essentially what happens, according to the Word of the Master, is that your own scapegoat will return from the desert-wilderness-dry-arid places with all of the sins upon its head, (like a mortal head wound).

    The Scripture does not command that the goat to/for `Aza'zel be cast off a steep and rocky-jagged cliff but rather that he be sent away into the desert-wilderness by the hand of a fit man. Most likely the reason for casting the scapegoat to/for `Aza'zel down a jagged cliff came about because of the CATASTROPHIC implications of the possibility that the goat might wonder back into the camp with all of the sins upon its head. The same tradition appears to be given more weight by the fact that it appears to come directly from the account we read in Enoch:

    Enoch 10:3-5
    3. Again the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azâzêl hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert, which is in Dûdâêl, and cast him therein.
    4. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may not see light. And on the day of the great judgment he shall be cast into the fire:
    5. And heal the earth, which the angels have corrupted; And proclaim the healing of the earth, that they may heal the plague, and that all the children of men may not perish through all the secret things that the Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. And the whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azâzêl: to him therefore ascribe the whole crime.'


    Perhaps the scapegoat does indeed come back from the wilderness-dry-arid places; and perhaps a final atonement is indeed made using him, yet if so then his end is found written in Isaiah 34 and other passages concerning the Lake of Fire. Therefore one should absolutely not desire to be paired up with him once again because he appears to be the 'old man' sin nature which is cast out at the first when we come to Christ Yeshua and submit to his interpretation-yoke of Torah:

    Matthew 12:43-45 KJV
    43. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
    44. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
    45. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.


    If that one goes and takes to himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they return to the man; would that not make him the eighth and of the seven? That one therefore has two horns like a lamb and speaks as a dragon; for sin lies at the door, and his desire is unto you, and you are his old house. Paul does not speak in this context when he states that 'a messenger of Satan was sent to buffet him' because that one (concerning Saul/Paul) was the governor under 'Aretas the king' of the previous chapter. The one by lot to/for `Aza'zel is a son of perdition and COMPLETELY LAWLESS.
    [/size]
     
  12. daq

    daq Messianic

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    [SIZE=+1]Also remember that the goat to/for `Aza'zel was not slain and therefore its blood is not used in the Yom Kippur ceremony at all, (though this fact is obvious it appears often to be neglected). Understand also that from those animals, whose blood was brought into the Tabernacle of the Congregation or Sanctuary-Holy Place for reconciliation; NO SIN OFFERING of that typology was to be eaten:[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=+1]Leviticus 6:24-30 KJV[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]24. And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]25. Speak unto Aaron and to his sons, saying, This is the law of the sin offering: In the place where the burnt offering is killed shall the sin offering be killed before the Lord: it is most holy.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]26. The priest that offereth it for sin shall eat it: in the holy place shall it be eaten, in the court of the tabernacle of the congregation.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]27. Whatsoever shall touch the flesh thereof shall be holy: and when there is sprinkled of the blood thereof upon any garment, thou shalt wash that whereon it was sprinkled in the holy place.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]28. But the earthen vessel wherein it is sodden shall be broken: and if it be sodden in a brasen pot, it shall be both scoured, and rinsed in water.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]29. All the males among the priests shall eat thereof: it is most holy.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]30. And no sin offering, whereof any of the blood is brought into the tabernacle of the congregation to reconcile withal in the holy place, shall be eaten: it shall be burnt in the fire.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=+1]Leviticus 16:27[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]27. And the bullock for the sin offering, and the goat for the sin offering, whose blood was brought in to make atonement in the holy place, shall one carry forth without the camp; and they shall burn in the fire their skins, and their flesh, and their dung.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=+1]So then we have in Leviticus 16 the story of a pair of 'twins' and both of them perfect: yet neither of them appears to concern the typology of Yeshua because the Bread of Life which he gives is his flesh, and the drink which he gives is his own Blood of the Covenant; and those things are spoken in Spirit:[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=+1]John 6:53-58[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]53. Then said Yeshua unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]54. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]55. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]56. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]57. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]58. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=+1]Matthew 16:24-25[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]23. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of the Theou, but those that be of the anthropon-men.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]24. Then said Yeshua unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him utterly disown himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]25. For whosoever will save his soul shall apollumi-destroy it: and whosoever will apollumi-destroy his soul for my sake shall find it.[/SIZE]
     
  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Exceptional comments Daq....yes, i was pretty worried about the implications of what I prayed myself!

    22 years later and it seems as if the whole thing makes more sense....for example there is a significant tradition that the disciple Thomas was the twin brother of Rabbi Jesus/Yahushua and therefore might have been even more of a metaphorical "goat for Azazel" even than Barabbas????!!!!

    If that tradition has some validity then the kiss from Judas would make more sense and the fact that Thomas lived out a full life, but nonetheless was tempted and tested and banged around by fallen angels may be a type of how each and every Christian is in a sense a scapegoat...whereas Rabbi Jesus/Yahusuhua was not only a Passover Lamb but also our High Priest and flawless Yom Kippur atonement goat as well!?
     
  14. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Shalom Netzarim: I am no expert but I believe that Rabbi Jesus advocated that we his followers recognize that two utterly different situations can call for two quite different responses.

    For example his question to the Pharisees:

    Mark 3:4
    I suspect that in part this question by Rabbi Jesus/Yahushua refers to a situation faced by the ancestors of the Pharisees, the Machabees when they were attacked on the Sabbath by Greco-Syrian armies.


    Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, First Book Of Machabees Chapter 2


    My old church the Worldwide Church of God advocated that members should give up their jobs in the military or police as soon as possible but to my thinking the implications of this question is that in a state of emergency a soldier or policeman can take a life, even on the Sabbath, in order to protect an innocent person, and they have not necessarily violated either the command "thou shalt do no murder" or broken the Sabbath!

    Like us, our Creator is free to respond in one way to one specific situation and differently to a similar situation with significantly differing relevant factors!

    G-d is free to heal one person and allow another person to continue on in their infirmity to help them be more humble or compassionate! A lack of healing does not necessarily always indicate a lack of faith, it could be indicative that the person is being trained to work with a certain group of people?!
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2012
  15. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    You could be right Daq, I don't know for sure but the fact that there was a progression of time from the fulfillment of Passover, then three days to the resurrection/wave sheaf offering...then fifty more days to Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was poured out...I wondered if there could again be a progression of time to the fulfillment of the fall harvest Holy Days?!

    It specifically says in the book of Hebrews that the sacrifice of Rabbi Yahushua/Jesus was for the descendants of Abraham and was not for the angels....yet Yom Kippur mentions a fallen angel so this made me wonder if there was an event in the latter days that would result in repentance being expanded rapidly even into the kingdom UNDER the earth????
     
  16. daq

    daq Messianic

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    [size=+1]Perhaps what was said above will take some time to be fully realized, not that I say 'one is right and one is wrong' but I do not think you fully comprehend the impact of what has been stated. As for Barabbas:

    Bar = Aramaic for 'a son'
    Bar-Abbas = 'Son of [the] Father'

    Barabbas was most assuredly the typology of the scapegoat. A most critical text was omitted from the Textus Receptus and probably because it was deemed far too 'Jewish' in its revelation. And this revelation of what was actually occurring just before the crucifixion, filling up the typology, has deep penetrating and ominous consequences for some of modern mainstream Christianity and modern theory concerning blood atonement theology, (particularly those factions teaching that 'Jesus is their scapegoat'). However, the extant miscellaneous manuscripts which compile the Greek Morph Texts, or so-called GNT Morph, contain the following account from the Matthew passage concerning Barabbas:

    Matthew 27:16-17 KJV (Textus Receptus - full name of Barabbas omitted)
    16. And they had then a notable prisoner, called Barabbas.
    17. Therefore when they were gathered together, Pilate said unto them, Whom will ye that I release unto you? Barabbas, or Jesus which is called Christ?

    Matthew 27:16-17 TUA (Transliterated Unaccented - GNT Morph Texts)
    16. Eichon de tote desmion episemon legmen Iesoun {*} Barabban.
    17. Sunegmenon oun auton eipen autois ho Pilatos, 'Tina thelete apoluso humin, Iesoun {*} ton Barabban e Iesoun ton legmen Christon?'


    Thus from the GNT Morph Texts the Word basically states:

    Matthew 27:16-17
    16. Moreover they had at that time a notable prisoner having been called YESHUA BARABBAS.
    17. They accordingly having been gathered together, says to them the Pilate; Whom would ye that I should LOOSE-LET-GO unto you, YESHUA THAT IS BARABBAS or YESHUA THAT IS HAVING BEEN CALLED CHRISTOS?


    Yeshua hoChristou - Son of the Theou - Torah Revolutionary - Love
    Yeshua Bar-Abbas - Son of the Father - Sicarii Revolutionary - Murder
    [/size]
     
  17. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Wow!!!!!!!!

    I am seriously impressed Daq!
     
  18. Avodat

    Avodat Contending for Biblical truth

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    I've been teaching this to congregations I have served for over 20 years. There never was a man called Barabbas. The people had to choose between the one who was called Yeshua bar Abba and Yeshua HaNatsrati V'M'lech HaYehudim. The acronym for which was YHVH and the Pharisees got angry and wanted it altered, but Pilate said what he had written stays put. Both men, from a distance, would have looked very similar and we know that Yeshua was really not known by sight or there would be no need for Y'hudah ish K'riot to point him out. The crowds played into hasatan's hands and chose the one who was called Yeshua bar Abba - some probably thinking that was Yeshua our saviour as that is a title that was applied to him. The one who claimed Kingship was, they must have thought, the criminal.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2012
  19. ananda

    ananda Early Buddhist

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    Could you please share the Scripture references which state that our sins and errors become assets? Thank you. :)
     
  20. daq

    daq Messianic

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    [size=+1]Please be more specific. It is difficult understanding exactly what you are stating since you have said that 'there never was a man called Barabbas'. I cannot tell if you are in agreement with the post you have quoted or if you are in disagreement with it?

    1) Are you stating that you have taught for over 20 years the same thing in the post you quoted?
    2) Or are you stating that you have taught for over 20 years that 'Yeshua is your scapegoat' because Barabbas was merely a fictional character in your understanding?
    [/size]
     
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