Yom Kippur/The Rapture connection?!

Avodat

Contending for Biblical truth
Jul 2, 2011
4,188
315
✟21,427.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Private
[SIZE=+1]Please be more specific. It is difficult understanding exactly what you are stating since you have said that 'there never was a man called Barabbas'. I cannot tell if you are in agreement with the post you have quoted or if you are in disagreement with it?

1) Are you stating that you have taught for over 20 years the same thing in the post you quoted?
2) Or are you stating that you have taught for over 20 years that 'Yeshua is your scapegoat' because Barabbas was merely a fictional character in your understanding?
[/SIZE]

The basics of 1) and part of 2). There was not a man called Barabbas - his name was bar Abba, NOT Barabbas. I have never taught that Yeshua or bar Abba were scapegoats.
 
Upvote 0

daq

Messianic
Jan 26, 2012
4,859
1,035
Devarim 11:21
Visit site
✟113,203.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
The basics of 1) and part of 2). There was not a man called Barabbas - his name was bar Abba, NOT Barabbas. I have never taught that Yeshua or bar Abba were scapegoats.

[size=+1]Ah, so then you spoke only concerning the spelling of the name. By the way, to clarify, I did not say bar-Abbas was a literal scapegoat but the TYPOLOGY of the same. Obviously Yeshua had no sin to be 'sent away' (aphiemi).[/size]
 
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Site Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
I've been teaching this to congregations I have served for over 20 years. There never was a man called Barabbas. The people had to choose between the one who was called Yeshua bar Abba and Yeshua HaNatsrati V'M'lech HaYehudim. The acronym for which was YHVH and the Pharisees got angry and wanted it altered, but Pilate said what he had written stays put. Both men, from a distance, would have looked very similar and we know that Yeshua was really not known by sight or there would be no need for Y'hudah ish K'riot to point him out. The crowds played into hasatan's hands and chose the one who was called Yeshua bar Abba - some probably thinking that was Yeshua our saviour as that is a title that was applied to him. The one who claimed Kingship was, they must have thought, the criminal.


Exceptionally interesting post Avodat!

i do believe that you are seriously onto something with the idea that a significant portion of the crowd may have been terribly misguided.

A powerful case could also be presented that Y'hudah ish K'riot may have expected Rabbi Yahushua/Jesus to usher in his kingdom earlier through a confrontation being forced with the leadership of Judaea at the time?! Maybe ish K'riot was expecting fire from heaven similar to II Kings chapter 1 that devoured to captains of fifty and their fifty?!
 
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Site Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
The basics of 1) and part of 2). There was not a man called Barabbas - his name was bar Abba, NOT Barabbas. I have never taught that Yeshua or bar Abba were scapegoats.


I have to admit that this troubled me also?!

How could Rabbi Yahushua/Jesus be termed a goat in any way shape or form???!!!


I am in no position to rule it out as a possibility but it just didn't seem to fit somehow!


We know that we are living in a time period where some pretty heavy events are going to take place....the prophecy regarding the pacifying of the wrath of the L-rd in the Catholic Bible is certainly food for thought!


Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, Ecclesiasticus Chapter 48

And Elias the prophet stood up, as a fire, and his word burnt like a torch......Who wast taken up in a whirlwind of fire, in a chariot of fiery horses. [10] Who art registered in the judgments of times to appease the wrath of the Lord, to reconcile the heart of the father to the son, and to restore the tribes of Jacob.
 
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Site Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
It cannot be reconciled. Therefore, either Paul was a liar or, my belief, that, because his writings were hard to understand anyway it was easy to tweak them to make them say what someone (Rome) wanted them to say to make up their own religion. And I believe that's exactly what they did. That's why we must take everything in the Greek writings and hold them up to Torah. Just that simple.


Shalom Yedida: I owe you an apology because the first time that I read this post I got rather lost at the first sentence "it cannot be reconciled." Now that I have read your post again I believe that you are onto some seriously important ideas!

I personally would prefer to convert to Catholicism than just about any other Christian church that I can think of....My second choice would be either Anglican or United because I know that I will not fit in well with a church that has no left wing!

Anyway, if I were to become Catholic I would so love to see a Pope publicly apologize to the Jewish people for attempting to compete with the Jewish people in their role to be the family and near relatives of Rabbi Jesus/Yahushua and the prophets.

I personally believe that we Catholics, (if I ever do manage to become a Catholic), were a negative influence on Protestant Reformer Martin Luther! His 1543 C.E. writing The Jews and Their Lies reflected much of what we Catholics thought of the Jewish people due to our own insecurities and feelings of inferiority toward them.
 
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Site Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
On that note I would like to quote part of a message from Dr. Michael Evans:

It is Yom HaShoah—Holocaust Remembrance Day

Dear Dennis,

Shalom from Jerusalem.

I am here in Israel as your ambassador to a nation that is mourning. More than six million Jews were slaughtered in a wave of hatred and evil that is very personal to me because it also killed several members of my mother’s family. The world stood by for years and did not halt this mass murder. People who claimed the name of God carried out the slaughter of His Chosen People, and it breaks my heart that many Jewish people today still have never seen an act of love from a Christian...................

............Barukh atah Adonai eloheinu melekh ha-olam, hameikhin mits’adei gever.
Blessed art thou, Lord our God, King of the universe, who establishes the footsteps of man.

Your ambassador to Jerusalem,

Dr. Michael Evans


“Mike Evans is a fighter for freedom in a world of darkening and narrowing horizons.”
-Benjamin Netanyahu, Prime Minister of Israel

“Mike Evans is a true ambassador to Jerusalem.”
-Ehud Olmert, former Prime Minister of Israel and former Mayor of Jerusalem


Mr. Garner Ted Armstrong and his dad Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong previous to their passing on from fourth dimensional space-time would have been mortified to read of a former WWCG member wishing to convert to Catholicism but....I would love to....partly because the humility that I have seen in Catholic theologians is a beautiful thing. I consider that a Catholic Pope may be one of the first major leaders from Christianity to publicly apologize to the Jewish people in a manner similar to how Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper apologized to the First Nations people for some of the terrible abuses that occurred in the residential school systems.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

yedida

Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!
Oct 6, 2010
9,779
1,461
Elyria, OH
✟25,205.00
Faith
Marital Status
In Relationship
Shalom Yedida: I owe you an apology because the first time that I read this post I got rather lost at the first sentence "it cannot be reconciled." Now that I have read your post again I believe that you are onto some seriously important ideas!

I personally would prefer to convert to Catholicism than just about any other Christian church that I can think of....My second choice would be either Anglican or United because I know that I will not fit in well with a church that has no left wing!

Anyway, if I were to become Catholic I would so love to see a Pope publicly apologize to the Jewish people for attempting to compete with the Jewish people in their role to be the family and near relatives of Rabbi Jesus/Yahushua and the prophets.

I personally believe that we Catholics, (if I ever do manage to become a Catholic), were a negative influence on Protestant Reformer Martin Luther! His 1543 C.E. writing The Jews and Their Lies reflected much of what we Catholics thought of the Jewish people due to our own insecurities and feelings of inferiority toward them.

I'm afraid from this post and the one following that you have misunderstood me. I am in no way applauding Rome and/or the pope for what they did when they stole the Jewish sect of the Way and turned it into a completely new religion called christianity. The disciples may have eventually been called christians but they were still deeply steeped in their Judaism, as they should have been. That is what Yeshua lived, walked and taught. He never taught what Rome made it to be.
We all need to get back to the basics.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BukiRob
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Site Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
I'm afraid from this post and the one following that you have misunderstood me. I am in no way applauding Rome and/or the pope for what they did when they stole the Jewish sect of the Way and turned it into a completely new religion called christianity. The disciples may have eventually been called christians but they were still deeply steeped in their Judaism, as they should have been. That is what Yeshua lived, walked and taught. He never taught what Rome made it to be.
We all need to get back to the basics.


I agree with you Yedida!

I have read some about the first and second century followers of Simon bar Jonah/Peter/Cephas and they were certainly "zealous of the law."

What I am saying is that the Catholic church seems to be one of the groups where a significant number of their leading scholars deeply and sincerely regret the historical fact that a significant percentage of Catholic teachings were astonishingly anti-Semitic in nature.

For example, I know that Pastor John Hagee is certainly a vocal and courageous supporter of the nation of Israel and of the Jewish people but.....does he realize that Christians traditionally eat pork on Easter pretty much to get rid of any Jews who might be there at the meeting because from my own experience even the smell of bacon frying can make us sick to our stomach after we have attempted to avoid it for decades!
 
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Site Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
I personally see more of a prodigal son attitude in Catholic scholars whereas many Protestant theologians, who would say that they are closer to the Jewish people than Catholics, may have more of an older brother type of feeling of superiority that they don't even realize that they have!
 
  • Like
Reactions: BukiRob
Upvote 0

yedida

Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!
Oct 6, 2010
9,779
1,461
Elyria, OH
✟25,205.00
Faith
Marital Status
In Relationship
If you see that in Catholics, that's a good thing I suppose.
For me, I have no use whatsoever for any sunday gathering church. It's all behind me and I deem it nothing more than a very bad dream from which I've thankfully awakened.
How do you feel about all the other crazy doctrines that the RCC espouse?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

DennisTate

Newbie
Site Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
If you see that in Catholics, that's a good thing I suppose.
For me, I have no use whatsoever for any sunday gathering church. It's all behind me and I deem it nothing more than a very bad dream from which I've thankfully awakened.
How do you feel about all the other crazy doctrines that the RCC espouse?


Back in 1994 a man from Digby Neck, Nova Scotia gave me a copy of this article from a Catholic journal that showed me how President Lincoln had saved American taxpayers 4 billion dollars in interest payments.

Abraham Lincoln and John F. Kennedy

In 1972, the United States Treasury Department was asked to compute the amount of interest that would have been paid if that 400 million dollars would have been borrowed at interest instead of being issued by Abraham Lincoln. They did some computations, and a few weeks later, the United States Treasury Department said the United States Government saved 4 billion dollars in interest because Lincoln had created his own money. So you can about imagine how much the Government has paid and how much we owe solely on the basis of interest.


All of a sudden certain verses in scripture jumped at me with a level of meaning that I had not noticed previously.

Genesis 11:6
And the LORD said, Behold, the people [is] one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

Ecclesiastes 10:19
A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all [things].


Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:


I had been getting kind of tired of reading Plain Truth and Good News magazines from the WWCG showing how terrible the world was and how we the servants of the Creator of heaven and earth could do nothing more than cower in a corner and review Foxes Book of Martyr's annually to get into the proper attitude of terror regarding the concentration camps that we would certainly be in within perhaps four or at most eight years!

I really do like the feeling that many Catholics have that we Christians are responsible to accomplish something with our lives toward making this planet a better place. Strangely enough I actually believe that there is a connection between this understanding with the fulfillment of the Autumn Jewish Holy Days in which soon even Egyptians will be observing the Festival of Tabernacles in Jerusalem!
 
Upvote 0

yedida

Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!
Oct 6, 2010
9,779
1,461
Elyria, OH
✟25,205.00
Faith
Marital Status
In Relationship
Back in 1994 a man from Digby Neck, Nova Scotia gave me a copy of this article from a Catholic journal that showed me how President Lincoln had saved American taxpayers 4 billion dollars in interest payments.

Abraham Lincoln and John F. Kennedy




All of a sudden certain verses in scripture jumped at me with a level of meaning that I had not noticed previously.

Genesis 11:6

Ecclesiastes 10:19


Hosea 4:6


I had been getting kind of tired of reading Plain Truth and Good News magazines from the WWCG showing how terrible the world was and how we the servants of the Creator of heaven and earth could do nothing more than cower in a corner and review Foxes Book of Martyr's annually to get into the proper attitude of terror regarding the concentration camps that we would certainly be in within perhaps four or at most eight years!

I really do like the feeling that many Catholics have that we Christians are responsible to accomplish something with our lives toward making this planet a better place. Strangely enough I actually believe that there is a connection between this understanding with the fulfillment of the Autumn Jewish Holy Days in which soon even Egyptians will be observing the Festival of Tabernacles in Jerusalem!

Okay, but I don't see how/where anything you've said has any relation to what you quoted.
That's okay though. I'm only here but a few minutes longer.
 
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Site Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Okay, but I don't see how/where anything you've said has any relation to what you quoted.
That's okay though. I'm only here but a few minutes longer.


In my area of Nova Scotia a Catholic Priest, Dr. Moses Coady did an amazing job of helping poor people to organize themselves in spite of denominational or political differences. His work was instrumental in transforming the economy of my province and his Antigonish Movement has spread to many poor nations.
Antigonish Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I had bleeding ulcers when I was four years old and the Sisters at St. Martha's Hospital in Antigonish were amazing!

I feel firmly that one of the most serious problems in the attitude of some of the most knowledgable Messianic Jews and Christians is the seeming obsession over the negative prophecies instead of getting together with others to accomplish what we are capable of being guided and inspired to do!

There is a stark contrast between the ideas presented here with what was emphasized back when I got to WWCG Sabbath services regularly:
.......

"Love Releases Life

Another man who looked almost exactly like Abel came and stood beside him.

“I am Adam,” he said. “I was given authority over the earth, but I gave it to the evil one by obeying evil. He now rules in my place and your place. The earth was given to man, but the evil one has taken it. The authority I lost was restored by the cross. Jesus Christ is ‘the last Adam,’ and He will soon take His authority and rule. He will rule through mankind because He gave the earth to mankind. Those who live in your times will prepare the earth for Him to rule.”
“Please tell me more,” I asked, a little surprised to see Adam, but wanting to hear everything he had to say. “How do we prepare for Him?”

“Love,” he said. “You must love one another. You must love the earth, and you must love life. My sin released the death that now flows as rivers upon the earth. Your love will release rivers of life. When evil reigns, death is stronger than life, and death prevails over life. When righteousness reigns, life prevails, and life is stronger than death. Soon the life of the Son of God will swallow up the death that was released through my disobedience. It is not just living that you must love, but life. Death is your enemy. You are called to be a messenger of life.

“When the Lord’s people begin to love, He will use them to release His judgments. His judgments are to be desired. The whole world is groaning and travailing as it waits for His judgments, and when they come, the world will learn righteousness. What He is about to do, He will do through His people, and His people will stand as Elijah in the last days. Their words will shut up the heavens or bring rain; they will prophesy earthquakes and famines, and they will come to pass; they will stop famines and earthquakes." Pastor Rick Joyner
http://www.christianforums.com/t7648006/
A message from Adam to all of humanity as given to Pastor Rick Joyner!


In summary, my pastors, who had astonishing understanding of hidden meaning in the Jewish Sabbaths and rituals fell into the rut of putting far too much emphasis on fear and powerlessness. I believe we need far more of a Davidic "can do" attitude toward life!
 
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Site Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
One of the biggest messages of Yom Kippur is perhaps that: ¶
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Revelation 11:15


But our part in the entire process may be far more like King David than we ever imagined previously.
Daniel 11:32
And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do [exploits].

It seems that the greatest outpouring of the Holy Spirit comes at the same time that the enemy also cranks his methods up to full throttle!

Isaiah 59:19
So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.

Could the comma in this last sentence be in a different place?
When the enemy shall come in, like a flood the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him

I have read that there are no commas in the Hebrew!
 
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Site Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

daq

Messianic
Jan 26, 2012
4,859
1,035
Devarim 11:21
Visit site
✟113,203.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
[SIZE=+1]How many men do you see caught up here DennisTate?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]2 Corinthians 12:1-4 ASV[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]1. I must needs glory, though it is not expedient; but I will come to visions and revelations [apokalupsis] of the Lord.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]2. I know a man in Christ, fourteen years ago (whether in the body, I know not; or whether out of the body, I know not; God knoweth), such a one [toioutos] caught up [harpazo] even to the third heaven.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]3. And [Also] I know such a [toioutos] man (whether in the body, or apart from the body, I know not; God knoweth),[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]4. how that he was caught up [harpazo] into Paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]If indeed you see the twin countenances of two anthropon-man-faced in this passage, (instead of the usual interpretation of one man) then perhaps the one in ''Paradise'' hears the other one, which is the king of fierce-`Az countenance, speaking unlawful things in the Third Heaven. Out of the twain it is the old man of the `Az countenance which goes into perdition: and a new name is given to the new creation-man in Christ Yeshua.[/SIZE]
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Site Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Wow! Cool theory Daq.

I had assumed that the man that Paul knew was actually himself because it seems that he had been stoned to the point of being near death in Lystra, but then he was resurrected. I had assumed for a long time that Paul was politely talking about his own out of the body and/or near death experience?!?!

Paul does write like somebody who had an extensive out of the body or near death experience?!?!

Act 14:8 ¶
And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:
The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,.Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked..And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men
..........

Act 14:19 ¶
And there came thither [certain] Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew [him] out of the city, supposing he had been dead.Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe.
 
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Site Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
I had thought that Paul was being polite and attempting to obey this verse to the best of his ability.....saying that he knew a man who had had such an experience was an understatement.

Another person who certainly would have an amazing story to tell would be Lazarus! No wonder some people had wanted to execute him as well.

Proverbs 27:2
Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips.

On the other hand I have wondered if Paul himself had wondered about what might happen if he had volunteered regarding Yom Kippur?!?!


Romans 9:3
For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
 
Upvote 0

Gxg (G²)

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)
Site Supporter
Jan 25, 2009
19,765
1,428
Good Ol' South...
Visit site
✟160,220.00
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Wow! Cool theory Daq.

I had assumed that the man that Paul knew was actually himself because it seems that he had been stoned to the point of being near death in Lystra, but then he was resurrected. I had assumed for a long time that Paul was politely talking about his own out of the body and/or near death experience?!?!


Paul does write like somebody who had an extensive out of the body or near death experience?!?!

Act 14:8 ¶
And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:
The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,.Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked..And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men
..........

Act 14:19 ¶
And there came thither [certain] Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew [him] out of the city, supposing he had been dead.Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe

Some of it, IMHO, as it concerns I Corinthians 12 is reflective of the subject of how Paul himself did indeed have many visions/amazing wonders he had seen, alongside beatings and sufferings he went through.
Acts 16:9
During the night Paul had a vision of a man of Macedonia standing and begging him, “Come over to Macedonia and help us.” After Paul had seen the vision, we got ready at once to leave for Macedonia, concluding that God had called us to preach the gospel to them.

Acts 16:8-10

Acts 16:22
The crowd joined in the attack against Paul and Silas, and the magistrates ordered them to be stripped and beaten with rods.
Acts 16:21-23

Acts 18:9
One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision: “Do not be afraid; keep on speaking, do not be silent.
Acts 18:8-10

I personally don't see where there would be a need to consider the man Paul was talking of in I Corinthians 12 to be a different man than Paul, as the way he spoke in 3rd person is often the exact same way that others did when it came to certain speech patterns used to make a point.

With I Corinthians 12, if Paul was having great visions/dreams which God knew could make him prideful, the Lord would be wise to do what would be necessary in order to put him in check.
2 Corinthians 12:7
To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me.

Something else worth noting is that the visions of the 3rd Heavens/Paradise were things he'd gotten VERY EARLY on in his life as indicated when he stated in II Corinthians 12:1-3 that he recieved the POWERFUL Visions fourteen years ago..sometime between A.D. 42-44, aorund Tarsus or Antioch, prior to his first missionary journey (Acts 9:19-28, Acts 9:29-30, Acts 11:25-26).
2 Corinthians 12:2
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.
Galatians 1:1-24
Paul Called by God

11I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. 12I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

13For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. 14I was advancing in Judaism beyond many Jews of my own age and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. 15But when God, who set me apart from birth[a] and called me by his grace, was pleased 16to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, 17nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus.
Galatians 2
Paul Accepted by the Apostles
1Fourteen years later I went up again to Jerusalem, this time with Barnabas. I took Titus along also. 2I went in response to a revelation and set before them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. But I did this privately to those who seemed to be leaders, for fear that I was running or had run my race in vain. 3Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek.
IMHO, this is important because often people look at the text of II Corinthians 12 and assume that Paul got the thorn the moment he announced it to the Corinthians---but the context is that he is contending against opponents who boast in their spiritual experiences. as well as in their ethnic identity.....and so Paul is forced to boast also, however foolishly, in his own visions and revelations (II Corinthians 11:1, II Corinthians 11:16, II Corinthians 12:11).
2 Corinthians 11:5

Whatever anyone else dares to boast about—I am speaking as a fool—I also dare to boast about. 22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they Abraham’s descendants? So am I. 23 Are they servants of Christ? (I am out of my mind to talk like this.) I am more. I have worked much harder, been in prison more frequently, been flogged more severely, and been exposed to death again and again. 24 Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was pelted with stones, three times I was shipwrecked, I spent a night and a day in the open sea, 26 I have been constantly on the move. I have been in danger from rivers, in danger from bandits, in danger from my fellow Jews, in danger from Gentiles; in danger in the city, in danger in the country, in danger at sea; and in danger from false believers. 27 I have labored and toiled and have often gone without sleep; I have known hunger and thirst and have often gone without food; I have been cold and naked. 28 Besides everything else, I face daily the pressure of my concern for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I do not feel weak? Who is led into sin, and I do not inwardly burn?

And then, in II Corinthians 12--specifically verses 7-10--he returns one last time to boast in his weaknesses, revealing the prescence of a "thorn"..and sharing of the visions that were given.

If he had a thorn given to Him EARLY on in his ministry-------whereas other teachers of his day started out from their youth in the wrong attitudes----then it'd make sense as to why Paul coudl've gone through SO MUCH.....and why all of the sufferings He endured seemed to not affect him as it would others. He was already called to suffer much for the Name of Christ ( Acts 9:15-17 )---and if God knew that many of his experiences He'd see could cause him to take pride in his sufferings, then it'd make sense for God to check him early on...

For more info, one can go online/look up a song by the group known as Anointed called "Its Not the I--But the YOU in me"
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Gxg (G²)

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)
Site Supporter
Jan 25, 2009
19,765
1,428
Good Ol' South...
Visit site
✟160,220.00
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
This is just a theory and I may be wrong but after being highly skeptical of the idea of a rapture for most of my life I am now open to the idea that the Rapture could fit in extremely well with the ultimate fulfillment of the Fast of Yom Kippur.

If interested, as you're not the first who has been of the mindset that the rapture would perhaps be on Yom Kippur, there is a rather interesting article I think you'd be blessed by...entitled “Why The Rapture Will Be On Yom Kippur”.:):D

As another believer noted best when she was processing on the subject:

....on Yom Kippur, individuals are allowed to come to repentance right up to the last hour. Well, my husband brought up the parable of the workers in the field as you see here in Matthew 20:1-14. Pay close attention to the “eleventh hour” portion of the parable.
For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man [that is] an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard. And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard. And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way. Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise. And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle? They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, [that] shall ye receive. So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them [their] hire, beginning from the last unto the first. And when they came that [were hired] about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. And when they had received [it], they murmured against the goodman of the house, Saying, These last have wrought [but] one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day. But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? Take [that] thine [is], and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
The second point:

As you read through the post, please also keep in mind the parable of the 10 virgins in Matthew 25:1-12. Notice how both the wise and foolish virgins were sleeping. They were then awakened by the call that the bridegroom was coming. See how this relates to Rosh Hashanah which is when the “awakening blast” trumpet is heard. Also, take note how the foolish virgins went back to life as usual (buying/selling, etc.) because they were not ready (Laodicean church in Revelation 3:14-22). Then notice how when they return, they find the door shut. This corresponds to Yom Kippur because the books of judgment are sealed, shut. Jesus shuts the door in this parable.
 
Upvote 0