Yahshua

[Reformed2]

That is a transliteration of a transliteration of a transliteration; and ends up sounding almost nothing like the original.

Aramaic => Greek
Greek => Latin
Latin => English

Is saying Jesus wrong?

 

[SteveCaruso]

By the first century AD people were saying Yeshua in place of Yahshua.

There are zero examples that support your assertion.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The Rabbi's started to change the language in 167 BC. By the first century AD people were saying Yeshua in place of Yahshua. There seems to be a minority class that did retain the old ways, apart from the Rabbi's teachings.

So you think that happened during the Macabbean revolt?

 

[chunkofcoal]

The Rabbi's started to change the language in 167 BC. By the first century AD people were saying Yeshua in place of Yahshua. There seems to be a minority class that did retain the old ways, apart from the Rabbi's teachings.

So do you think the angel Gabriel told Mary to call her son "Yahshua" instead of "Yeshua"? If the Rabbis had already changed the language by then wouldn't Mary have been more familiar with "Yeshua"?

 

[CherubRam]

No, these rules were contemporary to Jesus' time and cannot be hand-waved away.



"Elowah" is not an Aramaic form either. The Hebrew form is not derived from it. The Hebrew form emerged on its own due to well-understood vowel changes between Hebrew and other Semitic languages.

"Paleohebrew," is a script different from current Hebrew texts. The Arab speaking people argue that Elowah is a Arabic word. I do not know if it is or not. The vowels for Paleohebrew are a, i, o, u.

 

[CherubRam]

Is saying Jesus wrong?

We know for certain that Jesus was not his name.

 

[Reformed2]

We know for certain that Jesus was not his name.

But don't names translate differently in different languages? If I refer to Yeshua people in my community won't understand who I'm talking about.

Furthemore, hundreds of millions, if not billions have, and continue to call out to Yeshua by the name Jesus. More so than those who called Him by His original Aramaic name.

I just don't think it's an issue. The apostle Paul would have had a field day with this thread! Just my two cents.

 

[SteveCaruso]

But don't names translate differently in different languages?

Precisely.

And think of it historically: The reason why /yeshua`/ became /iesous/ immediately was because Greeks could not physically pronounce or write (in their alphabet) /sh/ or /`/ sounds, and Greek grammar *requires* endings to determine a word's part of speech in a sentence.

Names change between languages as a matter of how those languages work. This is how the Welsh name "Llwyd" became "Floyd" in English. There is no /ɬ/ in English.

 

[SteveCaruso]

"Paleohebrew," is a script different from current Hebrew texts.

"Paleohebrew" refers to both a script, and a language. The two should not be confused.

If it was /yashua/ then we would see ιασους /iasous/ all over the Greek New Testament and in engravings on contemporary ossuaries. But we don't. We see /yeshua/ and /yehoshua/, etc.

And the Angel in Matthew 1:21 would not have said that his name means "he will save" (the 3rd person prefix for Imperfect verbs is /ye-/ not /ya-/ :: /ye-shua/ = "he will save").

 

[CherubRam]

Oldest Hebrew Vowels


The oldest method used for Hebrew vowels is the vowel-letters י ן א and also ה ע . The employment of vowel-letters was a gradual development. They were first used sparingly to denote final vowels. (Mesha Stone, and Phoenician inscriptions. 950 to 750 BC)

י ן א ה ע

א ב ג ד ה ו ז ח ט י כ ך ל מ ם נ ן ס ע פ ף צ ץ ק ר שׁ שׂ ת

 

[SteveCaruso]

י ן א ה ע

Final Nun (ן) is not, and never has been a vowel.

I assume you mean Waw/Vav (ו).

My friend, this is a very strong indicator as to why you should not make these sorts of arguments. You objectively do not have the requisite training. You objectively do not even have a remedial understanding of the requisite languages. :-(

 

[CherubRam]

"Paleohebrew" refers to both a script, and a language. The two should not be confused.

If it was /yashua/ then we would see ιασους /iasous/ all over the Greek New Testament and in engravings on contemporary ossuaries. But we don't. We see /yeshua/ and /yehoshua/, etc.

And the Angel in Matthew 1:21 would not have said that his name means "he will save" (the 3rd person prefix for Imperfect verbs is /ye-/ not /ya-/ :: /ye-shua/ = "he will save").

The Hebrew spelling Y(ah)shua (ישוע) appears in some later books of the Hebrew Bible. The vowel "a" between the yod and shin is pronounced "ah." Modern Hebrew has that vowel as "e." It is an established fact that ( ישוע ) is a theophoric name. Ya is the short form for Yah. That is the reason for the English spelling Yahshua, adding the two letters a and h, to pronounce as it was in Christ day. Yeshua is almost universally recognized in the academic world as being the original Hebrew name for the Messiah, but that is from a modern Hebrew prospective. “Yahshua” is not a recognized Hebrew word; it is not listed in any Hebrew dictionary or lexicon. It is not recognized as being a legitimate name by any Hebrew scholar or linguist. It is believe by some that the reason for this may be: Quote.

Dictionary of Jewish usage: A guide to the use of Jewish terms. Page 39 Sol Steinmetz. 2005. Preview A.\M,yimach shemo vezichro!. plural, yimach shemom (vezich- rom). (Literally) 'May his name and memory be blotted out!' Used after an individual's name, as in Haman yimach shemo! zichrono livrocho, plural, zichronom livrocho.

Chaim Bermant, The walled garden: the saga of Jewish family life and tradition - 1974 "The darkest curse in the Hebrew language is yemach shemo vezichro, 'may his name and remembrance be obliterated"

Lawrence Schimel, Found tribe. 2002 "The worst curse in Hebrew is "Yemach shemo!" May his name be erased!"

The best evidence is that his proper name was "y'shua". Because the Galileans often dropped their 'ayins', hence "y'shu," for which in the talmud many Jewish people use as an acronym meaning “may his name be blotted out”. The letters in "YSHU" stood for the sentence, "Yemach Shmo u'Zikro" meaning "may his name be blotted out" (from the scroll of life). According to a Jewish proverb, the worst death is eternal anonymity.

For uncertain reasons there are Christians and Jews who do not want God's name or Christ name used.

 

[CherubRam]

Final Nun (ן) is not, and never has been a vowel.

I assume you mean Waw/Vav (ו).

My friend, this is a very strong indicator as to why you should not make these sorts of arguments. You objectively do not have the requisite training. You objectively do not even have a remedial understanding of the requisite languages. :-(

Here is were I got my info: VOCALIZATION - JewishEncyclopedia.com

 

[SteveCaruso]

The Hebrew spelling Y(ah)shua (ישוע) appears in some later books of the Hebrew Bible. The vowel "a" between the yod and shin is pronounced "ah."

Produce these examples.

The rest of what you've posted here is a red herring.

Here is were I got my info: VOCALIZATION - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Yes, and that source has Waw/Vav (ו) *correctly*.

But your transcription of it had a Final Nun (ן).

This is a mistake that a first year student would have recognized immediately.

I can only conclude that you cannot read the Hebrew alphabet.

 

[pat34lee]

 

[CherubRam]

Produce these examples.

The rest of what you've posted here is a red herring.



Yes, and that source has Waw/Vav (ו) *correctly*.

But your transcription of it had a Final Nun (ן).

This is a mistake that a first year student would have recognized immediately.

I can only conclude that you cannot read the Hebrew alphabet.

My computer is changing the Hebrew in a reverse order. Either I have a virus, or I need to repair the software. Anyway I am tired of talking about the subject. Thank you for your time.

 

[CherubRam]

[Staff edit].

The meaning of Christ name is "Yah's Salvation." The name Yah is not disputed by scholars.

 

[CherubRam]

Do you say halleluYeh, or do you say halleluYah?

 

[CherubRam]

Hay and Hey are two different words that sound the same, they both have an "ae" sound.

 

[CherubRam]

Yehovah and Yeshua are Rabbinic corruptions to prevent God's name from being spoken.