Yahshua

[gadar perets]

So what you are essentially saying is "Yahwah" is an incorrect pronunciation of the name of God, and that "Yahweh" is more likely correct?

Yes.

 

[woobadooba]

Most all scholars agree that the first name of God is Yah.

But do most scholars agree that the name of God is "Yahwah"? From what I have seen, it appears most scholars believe the name of God is "Yahweh".

But as I mentioned earlier, we don't know for sure, because the true pronunciation has been lost in time. I do find post #139 to be very interesting.

 

[Dkh587]

[Staff edit].

Shalom

Here is a good article that explains more in depth what it means to "know" God's name

Did the Patriarchs Know Jehovah by Name?

It helps to shed light on how Abraham "knew" God as El Shaddai, but did not "know" God by the name YHWH, even though Abraham used YHWH

 

[gadar perets]

Wah is a word and weh is not. Most all scholars agree that the first name of God is Yah. Thanks for the list of variations.

We are not dealing with words, but with syllables of words and rules of grammar.

"Yah" is not His "first name". It is the first syllable of His name.

 

[woobadooba]

[Staff edit].

Because the English "Jesus" is a transliteration from the Greek "Iesous," and "Iesous" is a transliteration from the Hebrew "Yeshua," neither "Jesus" nor "Yeshua" appear to be false, in my opinion. We are dealing with different languages and their limitations.

Is it preferable to use the name "Yeshua"? Yes. But is it right to make people think they are dishonoring God because they use the name "Jesus"? It is not for me to judge others in this way.

 

[gadar perets]

CherubRam,

Did you post the following passage to show teach us that YHWH and Yahshua are the same being or that there is an inseparable union between them or the "my name" refers to Yahshua? Please clarify.

 

[AbbaLove]

Is it preferable to use the name "Yeshua"? Yes. But is it right to make people think they are dishonoring God because they use the name "Jesus"? It is not for me to judge others in this way.

Thus, it stands to reason that one is not necessarily in error when choosing to use what he believes to be the proper name spelling (Yah-shua), which some believe expresses Yah's salvation (e.g. HRB translation) more so than does the name spelling Ye-shua.

Gadar perets previously expressed his opinion in another thread that the Hebraic Roots Bible (HRB) is a "literal" translation. Whether or not he still believes it to be a "literal" translation i know not. The Hebraic Roots Bible uses the name spelling "Yahshua" throughout its scripture verses; whereas Dr. David Stern's Complete Jewish Bible (CJB) uses the name spelling "Yeshua". Some believe that Stern's CJB translation is more of a paraphrased version than a literal translation ...

Stern is a paraphrase. Check his introduction.
Most accurate "Messianic" translation of NT (#2 reply)

​

The following is copied and pasted (including bold type) as found on page 5 of the Introduction of the Hebraic Roots Bible (HRB) ...

Is 49:6 And He said, It is too little that You should be My servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also give You, my Yahshua* (salvation), to be for a light of the nations, to the end of the earth.

Luk 2:26 And it happened to him, having been divinely instructed by the Holy Spirit, he was not to see death before he would see the Messiah of YAHWEH. 27 And by the Spirit he came into the sanctuary. And as the parents were bringing in the child Yahshua for them to do according to the custom of the Torah concerning Him, 28 even Simeon received Him into his arms. And he blessed YAHWEH and said, 29 "Now dismiss your servant in peace, Adonai, according to your word. 30 because my eyes saw Your Salvation (Yahshua),

Luk 3:5 All the valleys will be filled and all the mountains and heights will be leveled. And the rough will become smooth, and the difficult land a plain 6 " and all flesh shall see the salvation of YAHWEH." (Isaiah 40:3-5)
http://www.coyhwh.com/en/bible/hebraicRootsBible.pdf​

Agree with you that a couple of CherubRam's replies to you were not helpful--doing more to defeat his objective than to encourage his objective.

FWIW this is a Messianic Judaism forum so "Jesus" is seldom, if ever, used by MJ Messianic members of this forum when referring to Yeshua, Yahshua or Y'shua.

 

[gadar perets]

Gadar perets previously expressed his opinion in another thread that the Hebraic Roots Bible (HRB) is a "literal" translation. Whether or not he still believes it to be a "literal" translation i know not. The Hebraic Roots Bible uses the name spelling "Yahshua" throughout its scripture verses; whereas Dr. David Stern's Complete Jewish Bible (CJB) uses the name spelling "Yeshua". Some believe that Stern's CJB translation is more of a paraphrased version than a literal translation ...

I don't recall ever saying the HRB was a literal translation. Can you cite the post?

​

The following is copied and pasted (including bold type) as found on page 5 of the Introduction of the Hebraic Roots Bible (HRB) ...

Is 49:6 And He said, It is too little that You should be My servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also give You, my Yahshua* (salvation), to be for a light of the nations, to the end of the earth.​

This translation is foolishness.

 

[CherubRam]

Yahuah is also Yahwah in modern English. There is no vowel between Yah and Wah. And Hebrew did not use an e vowel in biblical Hebrew. Christ name has the first part of God's name in his, in fulfillment of prophecy. So therefore God's name is Yahwah, and Christ name is Yahshua.

 

[CherubRam]

Elohiym note.


The KJV translates Strong's H430 in the following manner: God (2,346x), god (244x), judge (5x), GOD (1x), goddess (2x), great (2x), mighty (2x), angels (1x), exceeding (1x), God-ward (with H4136) (1x), godly (1x).

 

[CherubRam]

Elohiym means: "God of the living," derived from the ancient Aramaic. People in heaven are elohiym, meaning" "gods of the living". The translation could also say, "God of the living ones". "God of the living" is a short form.

 

[SteveCaruso]

So therefore God's name is Yahwah, and Christ name is Yahshua.

Semitic point of order: That is not how Hebrew and Aramaic theophoric elements work. In Hebrew, the prefix is /y(eh)o-/. In Aramaic, the prefix is /ye-/. The vowel is A-class only when it is suffixed. "Yahshua" is not possible in Hebrew or Aramaic, and shoehorning an A-class vowel into Yeshua or Yehoshua is categorically wrong.

Elohiym means: "God of the living," derived from the ancient Aramaic.

Aramaic point of order: Elohim does not come from Aramaic.

 

[CherubRam]

Semitic point of order: That is not how Hebrew and Aramaic theophoric elements work. In Hebrew, the prefix is /y(eh)o-/. In Aramaic, the prefix is /ye-/. The vowel is A-class only when it is suffixed. "Yahshua" is not possible in Hebrew or Aramaic, and shoehorning an A-class vowel into Yeshua or Yehoshua is categorically wrong.



Aramaic point of order: Elohim does not come from Aramaic.

You are speaking of modern Hebrew rules. Plus, The Hebrew word "Elohim" is the plural of "Elowah", which is derived from the Aramaic. Ancient Hebrew and Aramaic were "IL" for God, later changed to "EL" for God. The etymology of Elohim is not certain. The Hebrews and Arabs once shared the same Semetic language until the two diverged from each other.

 

[Dave-W]

The letter W is at times used in place of the letter U when the letter U has a double UU sound.

Which "double UU sound?"

A doubled long U as in music?
Or a doubled short U as in up?

As to the sound in english represented by "W," as in wah, that sound was/is non-existent.

 

[CherubRam]

Which "double UU sound?"

A doubled long U as in music?
Or a doubled short U as in up?

As to the sound in english represented by "W," as in wah, that sound was/is non-existent.

More like "UW" as in Yah/uw/ah.

 

[Reformed2]

Very intresting thread. I will continue to call Him Jesus as that is what He is called in the United States and virtually the entire western world. If it's good enough for virtually every Bible version I've ever seen written, it's good enough for me.

Let's focus on what we all have in common... Him.

 

[CherubRam]

Very intresting thread. I will continue to call Him Jesus as that is what He is called in the United States and virtually the entire western world. If it's good enough for virtually every Bible version I've ever seen written, it's good enough for me.

Let's focus on what we all have in common... Him.

The name Jesus is not in every bible. In the original KJ it is Iesus.

From the 1611 KJV:

Mat 1:1 The booke of the generation of Iesus Christ, the sonne of Dauid, the sonne of Abraham.


Yahshua is also in the Holy Name Bible.

 

[CherubRam]

[Staff edit].

The Rabbi's started to change the language in 167 BC. By the first century AD people were saying Yeshua in place of Yahshua. There seems to be a minority class that did retain the old ways, apart from the Rabbi's teachings.

 

[Dave-W]

Very intresting thread. I will continue to call Him Jesus as that is what He is called in the United States

That is a transliteration of a transliteration of a transliteration; and ends up sounding almost nothing like the original.

Aramaic => Greek
Greek => Latin
Latin => English

 

[SteveCaruso]

You are speaking of modern Hebrew rules.

No, these rules were contemporary to Jesus' time and cannot be hand-waved away.

Plus, The Hebrew word "Elohim" is the plural of "Elowah", which is derived from the Aramaic.

"Elowah" is not an Aramaic form either. The Hebrew form is not derived from it. The Hebrew form emerged on its own due to well-understood vowel changes between Hebrew and other Semitic languages.