Would you ever vote for a lawmaker who supports murdering babies?

EnterLight

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Oh also this might be a hot take but I personally am pro choice. In instances where a woman or unborn is in danger. As well as in instances of sexual assaults. These are things we should be compassionate about. But, I also think the importance of accountability for using contraceptives needs to be discussed. If a man or woman lays down to create a child they need to care for that child!
 
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RileyG

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Putting abortion rights in the U.S. Constitution was absolutely the correct decision. No person who fully agrees with what Jesus said about treating others the way you would want them to treat you, loving your neighbor as yourself, loving your enemies, and being kind to all people (which, of course, includes all Christians) can possibly want to treat any pregnant girls or women like they are second-class citizens. Giving unwanted embryos and fetuses the legal right to life would do nothing but turn their mothers into second-class citizens. If you want all abortions to be illegal except to save the mother's life, you want to support every kind of federal, state, and county government program that would make the vast majority of them unnecessary. How do you want the government to solve it without mistreating any girl or woman with an unwanted pregnancy, knowing no other entity can pay for what she needs to avoid having an abortion?
How is it possibly right to support abortion "rights" when the most vulnerable are being killed? Remember Jesus said the little children come to me? And most importantly, "thou shall not kill." Women deserve so much better than abortion.

I guess we just have to agree to disagree and move on. Nothing is going to change my mind on this topic.

God's blessings upon you
 
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GodLovesCats

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How is it possibly right to support abortion "rights" when the most vulnerable are being killed? Remember Jesus said the little children come to me? And most importantly, "thou shall not kill." Women deserve so much better than abortion.

I guess we just have to agree to disagree and move on. Nothing is going to change my mind on this topic.

So I can't convince you refusing to follow the Golden Rule and Second Commandment, which both came straight out of God's mouth, apply to all people with unwanted pregnancies? "You shall not kill" has never stopped most Jews from being pro-choice, so you all can safely ignore it in your arguments against abortion.

God's blessings upon you

Jesus was talking to born children, obviously, because the unborn can't come to Him. If a little child is born, let that little child come to Jesus. But did he specifically say which humans are "little children" and include the unborn in that context?
 
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Chris04

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This is a hard choice for me personally.

I only say this because I see some members of my family who have had demon children, AKA, children they weren't really supposed to have, as my mother once told me.

I've even seen it with myself as well. So again, it's a really hard choice.
 
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rturner76

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Fetus literally comes from a latin word means little one. Biologically it has its own DNA distinct from its mothers.
An egg isn't a chicken until it's hatched. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a foul and barbaric practice. It's just that the opposition has biology to confirm that a fetus is a life but a symbiotic one. It is not a literal baby until it's born according to the definitions of fetus and baby.
 
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RileyG

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So I can't convince you refusing to follow the Golden Rule and Second Commandment, which both came straight out of God's mouth, apply to all people with unwanted pregnancies? "You shall not kill" has never stopped most Jews from being pro-choice, so you all can safely ignore it in your arguments against abortion.



Jesus was talking to born children, obviously, because the unborn can't come to Him. If a little child is born, let that little child come to Jesus. But did he specifically say which humans are "little children" and include the unborn in that context?
The didache- an early document from the early Church was opposed to abortion- and so were nearly all Christian Churches until the 1930s. Women deserve better than abortion. Abortion only harms women.
 
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GodLovesCats

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The didache- an early document from the early Church was opposed to abortion - and so were nearly all Christian churches until the 1930s. Women deserve better than abortion. Abortion only harms women.

We are talking about the U.S. Constitution now.

There is absolutely no reason to think for one second all abortions harm the girls and women who get them.

Being forced to carry her unwanted offspring (not a baby) to term is what causes her a lot of physical harm.

If you want to make nearly all abortions illegal, you want the government to do everything possible to prevent all at-risk girls and women from ever being put in situations where they need them. So what are your thoughts on that?
 
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JacksBratt

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You obviously do not know much about embryology. It takes a few days for a zygote to become a blastocyst and a blastocyst to become an embryo - if it even lives long enough for that to happen. God kills most human zygotes and blastocysts. He also kills many human embryos. So the chances of a zygote eventually looking like a person would be under 50% even if nobody ever had an abortion. If all humans get their souls at fertilization, why would God kill them less than a week or month later? Also, embryos are nothing but groups of stem cells very early. Organs, hairs, bones, tissues, and body fluids start to form, but the human appearance starts when it becomes a fetus.



People with cerebral palsy and amyotropic lateral sclerosis (ALS) can do more than embryos. The same can be said about people with many other disabilities. Embryos do not even know about their own existence because they have none of the five senses or the ability to think like the vast majority of 8 billion people.

In the case of comatose people, they had the right to choose death instead of life support. There is no law forcing them to remain alive against their will. Doctors do everything possible to keep them alive if they do not have a living will with specific instructions to let them die instead. Unfortunately, most people do not think about getting living wills before they need them, which causes hospitals to waste thousands of dollars treating people who should not be alive.



What don't you understand about the difference between "human" and "person"? Those two words never meant the same thing. The definition of "person" has always meant a born human. I could not have been more clear about that. Everyone who went to a school in America knows it. The only reason anyone ever says unborn humans are people is they want to believe that, not because that is what they learn in school. They wish the extremely obvious, repeatedly proven, totally necessary and loving truth in America was fiction.

The right to life never existed for unborn humans in America. It has always been exclusive to people. The Fourteenth Amendment codified that fact to prevent unborn humans from ever having the right to life in America, but that was just a formality. No unborn human beings were ever, in all of American history, considered people or given the right to life.



A picture is not the same anymore when it becomes defective. It is still a picture of humans, but not a picture of perfect humans - which are what God created after He said, "Let Us make man in Our image."
You said "only born humans" look like people.

First... that is not even a valid argument.... for anything.

Secondly... After making that statement, you argue with me by describing zygotes and embryos...no parallel there.

Thirdly... it matters not what humans look like. A baby, at the time of conception is 1/ Living and 2/ A human 3/ living.

Any deliberate killing of that living human is murder.
 
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GodLovesCats

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it matters not what humans look like. A baby, at the time of conception is 1/ Living and 2/ A human 3/ living.

You know all babies are born because there is no such thing as an unborn baby,

Unborn human offspring become babies at birth. That has always been true and always will be true.
 
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David Collins

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You know all babies are born because there is no such thing as an unborn baby,

Unborn human offspring become babies at birth. That has always been true and always will be true.
Nice deflection.
 
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David Collins

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It is not a deflection at all. It is a correction.
I’m talking about he pointed out your incorrect statement where you said “only born humans” look like babies. Obviously that’s not true when you look at late stage pregnancy. You cropped that out of the post and only responded to what was in your comfort zone.
 
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JacksBratt

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An egg isn't a chicken until it's hatched. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a foul and barbaric practice. It's just that the opposition has biology to confirm that a fetus is a life but a symbiotic one. It is not a literal baby until it's born according to the definitions of fetus and baby.
Try going to the nest of a bald eagle or any other protected bird, and taking a fertilized egg and breaking it...

You'd do time in prison and people will call you a monster..

But, kill a human while in the uterus.. and people pat you on the back and say "that's your right".

Tell me the world isn't upside down.
 
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rturner76

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Try going to the nest of a bald eagle or any other protected bird, and taking a fertilized egg and breaking it...

You'd do time in prison and people will call you a monster..

But, kill a human while in the uterus.. and people pat you on the back and say "that's your right".

Tell me the world isn't upside down.
I don't think people pat a woman on the back for having an abortion. It's a shame but in a secular democracy/republic, people are not required to follow Christian philosophy.
 
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JacksBratt

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I don't think people pat a woman on the back for having an abortion. It's a shame but in a secular democracy/republic, people are not required to follow Christian philosophy.
I've seen people at rally's, cheering others for having abortions.. It's nuts.
 
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chevyontheriver

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I've seen people at rally's, cheering others for having abortions.. It's nuts.
Then there's the 'I heart abortion' T-shirts I saw for sale from one abortion supporting organization, VoteProChoice.us. I couldn't believe they could be quite that callous or quite so obvious, but they were offering such T-shirts for sale.
 
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rturner76

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Try going to the nest of a bald eagle or any other protected bird, and taking a fertilized egg and breaking it...

You'd do time in prison and people will call you a monster..

But, kill a human while in the uterus.. and people pat you on the back and say "that's your right".

Tell me the world isn't upside down.
I think the argument is that if it is my uterus, I can decide whether or not to allow a fetus to reside there. Eagles have no concept of abortion so that would be taking the choice away from the eagle mother who would always choose to hatch her egg.
 
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GodLovesCats

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Oh also this might be a hot take but I personally am pro choice. In instances where a woman or unborn is in danger. As well as in instances of sexual assaults. These are things we should be compassionate about.

I am a huge fan of permitting abortions if fetal testing reveals it is incompatible with life and does not have much chance of leaving the NICU alive. It would be almost the same as someone at the opposite end of life being in the ICU who was given only 3 months to live.

One of the worst things I have read on this forum is it was better to make a fetus who the obstetrician said was "incompatible with life" be born and suffer constantly for no reason except the fact she was human. That is having no compassion at all for either the mom or child.

But, I also think the importance of accountability for using contraceptives needs to be discussed. If a man or woman lays down to create a child they need to care for that child!

How about this: If a rapist makes the victim pregnant and she decides to get an abortion, he should be required to cover the full cost of the abortion and all related expenses. If she decides not to get an abortion, no law should allow him to avoid paternity fees for the next 25 years. I also would support a law that denies all charged rapists bail while their court cases are pending.

Why should people be held accountable for using the only things that can prevent unwanted pregnancies?
 
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GodLovesCats

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They will not get my vote. And the Democratic Party which used to be for the working class, poor, and little guy needs to go back to being more inclusive of those in their party who support life.

What makes you think the Democratic Party is no longer for those people? It is extremely obvious Democrats still are all about helping the working class, poor, and little guys while the Republican Party was never about that and is even further from those ideals than ever.

If you care about everything Democrats stand for, you are a Democrat and will always only vote for them because the Republican Party only cares about rich people and itself. It has always hated the mere thought of helping those who need help the most and gets worse every year. In fact, the Republican Party is 100% responsible for millions of Americans refusing to wear masks and get covid shots, which resulted in a huge number of easily preventable deaths, and the crime rate going up with mass murders happening every single day.
 
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