Woe, Woe, Woe

[Original Happy Camper]

Hi OHC,

Do you think all these prophecies was fulfilled in the first century immediately following the 69th week?

1) to finish the transgression,
2) to make an end of sins,
3) to make reconciliation for iniquity,
4) to bring in everlasting righteousness,
5) to seal up the vision and prophecy,
6) to anoint the most Holy.

This is what those prophecies mean in plain english.

Daniel 9:24 (NIRV) "The LORD has appointed 70 'weeks' for your people and your holy city. During that time, acts against God's law will be stopped. Sin will come to an end. And the evil things people do will be paid for. Then everyone will always do what is right. Everything that has been made known in visions and prophecies will come true. And the Most Holy Room in the temple will be anointed.

Daniel 9:24 (WEB) Seventy weeks are decreed on your people and on your holy city, to finish disobedience, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy.

Daniel 9:24 (GNT) "Seven times seventy years is the length of time God has set for freeing your people and your holy city from sin and evil. Sin will be forgiven and eternal justice established, so that the vision and the prophecy will come true, and the holy Temple will be rededicated.​

.

1) to finish the transgression, Jesus died on the cross at the hands of his people.
2) to make an end of sins, Jesus died for our sins we do not have to suffer the second death
3) to make reconciliation for iniquity, Jesus over came sin
4) to bring in everlasting righteousness, Jesus is the everlasting rightousness
5) to seal up the vision and prophecy, the 70 week prophecy
6) to anoint the most Holy. This is Jesus the most Holy

The 70th week is all about Jesus and the Gospel. He was baptized at the begging of the week, died on the cross 3.5 years later and at the end of the week, 3.5 years later, with the stoning of Steven the Gospel went to the Gentiles. Thus the 70 weeks that were determined on his people, the nation of Israel was completed with the Gospel taken from them and given to the gentiles.

See post #59 on this tread

 

[Psalm3704]

1) to finish the transgression, Jesus died on the cross at the hands of his people.

So you think Jesus was the transgression?

2) to make an end of sins, Jesus died for our sins we do not have to suffer the second death

So do you think Jesus' death allows us to continue sinning and not be held accountable?

3) to make reconciliation for iniquity, Jesus over came sin

So you're saying those Israelites who did not accept the gospel have their sins paid for too?

4) to bring in everlasting righteousness, Jesus is the everlasting rightousness

So you're saying all the Jews and all of Israel have been considered righteous before God since Christ's death on the cross?

5) to seal up the vision and prophecy, the 70 week prophecy

You got thousands of prophecies that still haven't been fulfilled yet, pretty much 99% of the prophecies about the 70th week in the prophetic books unfulfilled.

6) to anoint the most Holy. This is Jesus the most Holy

Was Jesus anointed or was Jesus put to death by the hands of man?

That verse is about the millennium temple. Is there a temple currently located in Israel?

The 70th week is all about Jesus and the Gospel.

The 70th week of Daniel is a prophecy about the Jews and Israel. "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,"

Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Daniel 9:26 New King James Version (NKJV)
“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.​

How can Jesus fulfill the 70th week in the first century when His death ended the 69th week?













.

 

[Psalm3704]

See post #59 on this tread

For those who care here is a little bit of History.

A Counter-Reformation

In 1545, the Catholic Church convened one of its most famous councils in history, which took place north of Rome in a city called Trent. The Council of Trent actually continued for three sessions, ending in 1563. One of the main purposes of this Council was for Catholics to plan a counterattack against Martin Luther and the Protestants. Thus the Council of Trent became a center for Rome’s Counter-Reformation. Up to this point, Rome’s main method of attack had been largely frontal—the open burning of Bibles and of heretics. Yet this warfare only confirmed in the minds of Protestants the conviction that Papal Rome was indeed the Beast which would “make war with the saints” (Revelation 13:7). Therefore a new tactic was needed, something less obvious. This is where the Jesuits come in.

On August 15, 1534, Ignatius Loyola founded a secretive Catholic order called the Society of Jesus, also known as the Jesuits. The Jesuits definitely have a dark history of intrigue and sedition, that’s why they were expelled from Portugal (1759), France (1764), Spain (1767), Naples (1767), and Russia (1820). “Jesuit priests have been known throughout history as the most wicked political arm of the Roman Catholic Church. Edmond Paris, in his scholarly work, The Secret History of the Jesuits, reveals and documents much of this information.”4 At the Council of Trent, the Catholic Church gave the Jesuits the specific assignment of destroying Protestantism and bringing people back to the Mother Church. This was to be done not only through the Inquisition and through torture, but also through theology.

The Jesuit Commission
At the Council of Trent, the Jesuits were commissioned by the Pope to develop a new interpretation of Scripture that would counteract the Protestant application of the Bible’s Antichrist prophecies to the Roman Catholic Church. Francisco Ribera (1537-1591), a brilliant Jesuit priest and doctor of theology from Spain, basically said, “Here am I, send me.” Like Martin Luther, Francisco Ribera also read by candlelight the prophecies about the Antichrist, the little horn, that man of sin, and the Beast. But because of his dedication and allegiance to the Pope, he came to conclusions vastly different from those of the Protestants. “Why, these prophecies don’t apply to the Catholic Church at all!” Ribera said. Then to whom do they apply? Ribera proclaimed, “To only one sinister man who will rise up at the end of time!” “Fantastic!” was the reply from Rome, and this viewpoint was quickly adopted as the official Roman Catholic position on the Antichrist.

“In 1590, Ribera published a commentary on the Revelation as a counter-interpretation to the prevailing view among Protestants which identified the Papacy with the Antichrist. Ribera applied all of Revelation but the earliest chapters to the end time rather than to the history of the Church. Antichrist would be a single evil person who would be received by the Jews and would rebuild Jerusalem.”5 “Ribera denied the Protestant Scriptural Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2) as seated in the church of God—asserted by Augustine, Jerome, Luther and many reformers. He set on an infidel Antichrist, outside the church of God.”6 “The result of his work [Ribera’s] was a twisting and maligning of prophetic truth.”7

Following close behind Francisco Ribera was another brilliant Jesuit scholar, Cardinal Robert Bellarmine (1542-1621) of Rome. Between 1581 and 1593, Cardinal Bellarmine published his “Polemic Lectures Concerning the Disputed Points of the Christian Belief Against the Heretics of This Time.” In these lectures, he agreed with Ribera. “The futurist teachings of Ribera were further popularized by an Italian cardinal and the most renowned of all Jesuit controversialists. His writings claimed that Paul, Daniel, and John had nothing whatsoever to say about the Papal power. The futurists’ school won general acceptance among Catholics. They were taught that Antichrist was a single individual who would not rule until the very end of time.”8 Through the work of these two tricky Jesuit scholars, we might say that a brand new baby was born into the world. Protestant historians have given this baby a name—Jesuit Futurism. In fact, Francisco Ribera has been called the Father of Futurism......

http://www.angelfire.com/la2/prophet1/Jesuits.html

So are you following the Bible or a Roman Catholic teaching based on your stated belief of Prophecy?
You all need to verify where some of your beliefs come from.

All the answers are right here. No need to continue reading people's opinion if it doesn't line up with the bible.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

So you think Jesus was the transgression?
IT SAYS TO FINISH THE TRANSGRESSION, THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH. HE DIED FOR US


So do you think Jesus' death allows us to continue sinning and not be held accountable?

WHERE DID THIS THINKING COME FROM



So you're saying those Israelites who did not accept the gospel have their sins paid for too?

WHERE DID THIS THINKING COME FROM

So you're saying all the Jews and all of Israel have been considered righteous before God since Christ's death on the cross?

I HAVE NO IDEA WHY YOU WOULD FRAM THIS QUESTION

You got thousands of prophecies that still haven't been fulfilled yet, pretty much 99% of the prophecies about the 70th week in the prophetic books unfulfilled.



Was Jesus anointed or was Jesus put to death by the hands of man?
HE WAS ANOINTED AT HIS BAPTISM

That verse is about the millennium temple. Is there a temple currently located in Israel?
NO IT IS IN HEAVEN



The 70th week of Daniel is a prophecy about the Jews and Israel. "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,"

Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Daniel 9:26 New King James Version (NKJV)
“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.​

How can Jesus fulfill the 70th week in the first century when His death ended the 69th week?

HIS BAPTISM COMPLETED THE 69TH WEEK NOT HIS DEATH "And after"

SEE POST #59 AND READ IT TO SEE WHERE YOU THEOLOGY ON THIS POINT COMES FROM









.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

All the answers are right here. No need to continue reading people's opinion if it doesn't line up with the bible.

NOT AN OPINION IT IS HISTORY

 

[Original Happy Camper]

So you think Jesus was the transgression?



So do you think Jesus' death allows us to continue sinning and not be held accountable?



So you're saying those Israelites who did not accept the gospel have their sins paid for too?



So you're saying all the Jews and all of Israel have been considered righteous before God since Christ's death on the cross?



You got thousands of prophecies that still haven't been fulfilled yet, pretty much 99% of the prophecies about the 70th week in the prophetic books unfulfilled.



Was Jesus anointed or was Jesus put to death by the hands of man?

That verse is about the millennium temple. Is there a temple currently located in Israel?



The 70th week of Daniel is a prophecy about the Jews and Israel. "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,"

Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Daniel 9:26 New King James Version (NKJV)
“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.​

How can Jesus fulfill the 70th week in the first century when His death ended the 69th week?

.

So you think Jesus was the transgression?
IT SAYS TO FINISH THE TRANSGRESSION, THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH. HE DIED FOR US

So do you think Jesus' death allows us to continue sinning and not be held accountable?
WHERE DID THIS THINKING COME FROM

So you're saying those Israelites who did not accept the gospel have their sins paid for too?
WHERE DID THIS THINKING COME FROM

So you're saying all the Jews and all of Israel have been considered righteous before God since Christ's death on the cross?
I HAVE NO IDEA WHY YOU WOULD FRAME THIS QUESTION

You got thousands of prophecies that still haven't been fulfilled yet, pretty much 99% of the prophecies about the 70th week in the prophetic books unfulfilled.
IN RIBERA'S FUTURISM ONLY



Was Jesus anointed or was Jesus put to death by the hands of man?
HE WAS ANOINTED AT HIS BAPTISM

That verse is about the millennium temple. Is there a temple currently located in Israel?
NO IT IS IN HEAVEN



The 70th week of Daniel is a prophecy about the Jews and Israel. "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,"

Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


Daniel 9:26 New King James Version (NKJV)
“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

How can Jesus fulfill the 70th week in the first century when His death ended the 69th week?

HIS BAPTISM COMPLETED THE 69TH WEEK NOT HIS DEATH "And after"

SEE POST #59 AND READ IT TO SEE WHERE YOUR THEOLOGY ON THIS POINT COMES FROM

 

[Douggg]

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:"
12:6 is showing this fleeing. They have just seen the man of sin enter the temple (as per Paul in 2 thes.) and declare he is their God. They RUN. They FLEE. John sees this and writes it.

lamad, "stand in the holy place" is that what it says in Daniel 12:11-12 about the abomination of desolation?

The abomination of desolation is something that is setup. You are right of course about Jesus saying standing in the holy place. The only way to reconcile the set up and standing - is that the abomination of desolation will be a statue image of the beast in a standing position... that will be placed in the temple.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

We still have the issue of the man of sin revealing himself by going into the temple and "sitting" (not "stand" like Jesus said in Matthew24) claiming to have achieved God-hood. Which is the 2thessalonians2:3-4 passage. If you look at Daniel 8, the little horn and that vision of him descecrating the temple, in the text it doesn't call that the abomination of desolation - but the transgression of desolation.

That's a very important distinction. Because it takes a person to transgress something - in this case what is going to be transgressed is the Mt. Sinai covenant that the children of Israel would be God's people and He their God. So the transgression of desolation is tha act of the future king of Israel - the Antichrist - transgressing the covenant, which will be going into the temple "sitting" claiming to have achieved God-hood. "of desolation" means that because of the act the praise and worship of God will not be done at that time - the temple desolated.

So if we look at Daniel 12:12 blessed is he who remains faithful til the 1335 days - which we can presume is the Day Jesus returns at the end of the 7 years, day 2520, we can count back 1335 days to know that the abomination of desolation will be setup on day 1185 on the 7 year timeline.

So we know that the abomination of desolation is the standing stature image of the beast. But to become the beast the person has to be killed and come back to life. Do we have a basis?

Yes, we know that the person goes into the temple - SITS - not stands, and claims to have achieved God-hood. In Ezekiel 28:1-10, albeit said to be a message to the prince of tyre, it is really about the revealed man of sin. It says God has him killed for "SITTING" in God's seat showing the world that he is God (paraphrased). So that how he gets killed.

Then the person finding himself in hell, in Isaiah 14, God in disdain for the person cast him out of the grave - because he destroys his people and his land. That is how the person comes back to life - as the beast.

Which brings up to Revelation 11, AT THE END OF THEIR TESTIMONY, not the beginning, the beast makes war on the two witnesses and kills them. It is at the end of the 1260 days. The first half of the seven years.

The 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 cannot be the second half - because the war in heaven takes place after the 1260 days - which results in Satan being cast down the time, times, half times, the second half.

It's the 1260 days, 12;6, then the war in heaven in the text; then the time, times, half times of 12:14.

 

[Douggg]

You are on to something here. The truth is, all five of these mentions of time, 1260 days, 42 months, 3 1/2 years all will run pretty much concurrently during the last half of the 70th week. So OF COURSE the twp witnesses will be testifying their 1260 days while those in Judea will be fleeing, and while the city will be trampled for 42 months.

There is only ONE last half of the week, and all these events will take place during that last half. Anyone that puts one or more of these 5 events into the first half are thinking MYTH.

lamad, in Revelation 11, the 7th trumpet sounds after the two witnesses' 1260 days, and right before the third woe.

And the only woe left in Revelation is the woe for the inhabitors of the earth and sea - Satan cast down for a time, times, half time.

So its 1260 days - then the seventh trumpet - then the time, times, half times woe.

 

[Douggg]

For those who care here is a little bit of History.

A Counter-Reformation

In 1545, the Catholic Church convened one of its most famous councils in history, which took place north of Rome in a city called Trent. The Council of Trent actually continued for three sessions, ending in 1563. One of the main purposes of this Council was for Catholics to plan a counterattack against Martin Luther and the Protestants. Thus the Council of Trent became a center for Rome’s Counter-Reformation. Up to this point, Rome’s main method of attack had been largely frontal—the open burning of Bibles and of heretics. Yet this warfare only confirmed in the minds of Protestants the conviction that Papal Rome was indeed the Beast which would “make war with the saints” (Revelation 13:7). Therefore a new tactic was needed, something less obvious. This is where the Jesuits come in.

On August 15, 1534, Ignatius Loyola founded a secretive Catholic order called the Society of Jesus, also known as the Jesuits. The Jesuits definitely have a dark history of intrigue and sedition, that’s why they were expelled from Portugal (1759), France (1764), Spain (1767), Naples (1767), and Russia (1820). “Jesuit priests have been known throughout history as the most wicked political arm of the Roman Catholic Church. Edmond Paris, in his scholarly work, The Secret History of the Jesuits, reveals and documents much of this information.”4 At the Council of Trent, the Catholic Church gave the Jesuits the specific assignment of destroying Protestantism and bringing people back to the Mother Church. This was to be done not only through the Inquisition and through torture, but also through theology.

The Jesuit Commission
At the Council of Trent, the Jesuits were commissioned by the Pope to develop a new interpretation of Scripture that would counteract the Protestant application of the Bible’s Antichrist prophecies to the Roman Catholic Church. Francisco Ribera (1537-1591), a brilliant Jesuit priest and doctor of theology from Spain, basically said, “Here am I, send me.” Like Martin Luther, Francisco Ribera also read by candlelight the prophecies about the Antichrist, the little horn, that man of sin, and the Beast. But because of his dedication and allegiance to the Pope, he came to conclusions vastly different from those of the Protestants. “Why, these prophecies don’t apply to the Catholic Church at all!” Ribera said. Then to whom do they apply? Ribera proclaimed, “To only one sinister man who will rise up at the end of time!” “Fantastic!” was the reply from Rome, and this viewpoint was quickly adopted as the official Roman Catholic position on the Antichrist.

“In 1590, Ribera published a commentary on the Revelation as a counter-interpretation to the prevailing view among Protestants which identified the Papacy with the Antichrist. Ribera applied all of Revelation but the earliest chapters to the end time rather than to the history of the Church. Antichrist would be a single evil person who would be received by the Jews and would rebuild Jerusalem.”5 “Ribera denied the Protestant Scriptural Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2) as seated in the church of God—asserted by Augustine, Jerome, Luther and many reformers. He set on an infidel Antichrist, outside the church of God.”6 “The result of his work [Ribera’s] was a twisting and maligning of prophetic truth.”7

Following close behind Francisco Ribera was another brilliant Jesuit scholar, Cardinal Robert Bellarmine (1542-1621) of Rome. Between 1581 and 1593, Cardinal Bellarmine published his “Polemic Lectures Concerning the Disputed Points of the Christian Belief Against the Heretics of This Time.” In these lectures, he agreed with Ribera. “The futurist teachings of Ribera were further popularized by an Italian cardinal and the most renowned of all Jesuit controversialists. His writings claimed that Paul, Daniel, and John had nothing whatsoever to say about the Papal power. The futurists’ school won general acceptance among Catholics. They were taught that Antichrist was a single individual who would not rule until the very end of time.”8 Through the work of these two tricky Jesuit scholars, we might say that a brand new baby was born into the world. Protestant historians have given this baby a name—Jesuit Futurism. In fact, Francisco Ribera has been called the Father of Futurism......

http://www.angelfire.com/la2/prophet1/Jesuits.html

So are you following the Bible or a Roman Catholic teaching based on your stated belief of Prophecy?
You all need to verify where some of your beliefs come from.

Happy Camper, the person who becomes the Antichrist has to be received by the Jews as the King of Israel, instead of Jesus who they rejected, mislead by the religious leaders. Jesus is the rightful King of Israel, but was rejected.

As he was entering Jerusalem...

Luke 19:38 Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.
38 Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.

That eliminates the Pope, the papacy, the Mahid, any muslim.

 

[Douggg]

Please explain where in the Bible you get authority to take the 70th week and separate it from the other 69 weeks.

Because the 7 years (the 70th week) are in Revelation 12 (12:6 + 12:14), still outstanding indicated because of the status of the crowns on the heads of the beast. The seven heads in that chapter have their crowns because with 7 years to go before Jesus returns, the prophecy of the seven kings will have been fulfilled.

John was given Revelation in the first century, probably around 30 years after Jesus was crucfied and resurrected. In Revelation 17, first century, the sixth king was ruling. King 7 is the one associated with the last 7 years of Daniel 9.

 

[Douggg]

You are on to something here. The truth is, all five of these mentions of time, 1260 days, 42 months, 3 1/2 years all will run pretty much concurrently during the last half of the 70th week. So OF COURSE the twp witnesses will be testifying their 1260 days while those in Judea will be fleeing, and while the city will be trampled for 42 months.

There is only ONE last half of the week, and all these events will take place during that last half. Anyone that puts one or more of these 5 events into the first half are thinking MYTH.

lamad, to simplify, here is the basic 7 year equation. (I realize it is different from your everything is in the second half).

1260 days + 3 1/2 days ...the 7th trumpet sounds....the 42 months (containing the time, times, and half times) = 7 years.

The basic premise for why there are three different expressions for nominally the same amount of time is...

1260 days - exact half of the seven years
42 months - a little less than 1260 days (because of the 3 1/2 days)
the time, times, half times - a little less than the 42 months (because of the war in heaven duration).

 

[Douggg]

As the last half of the week plays out, the Beast tries and tries to kill the two prophets, but they are supernaturally protected. Finally, 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial that will end the week, they are finished testifying and the Beast kills them. They lay dead for 3 1/2 days, and suddenly rise up at the 7th vial. The great earthquake in chapter 11 is the very same earthquake at the 7th vial. It is caused by God raising up the Old Testament saints. Many were dead before the flood, and their atoms are spread far and wide. It will cause a HUGE earthquake as God pulls their bodies back together.

lamad, how do you reconcile Revelation 6:7-8 and Revelation 6:12-17 the cosmos being removed, with the partying and exchanging gifts over the deaths of the two witnesses? At the same time, the armies of the world are assembling at Armageddon? I don't see any partying going on and gift exchanging at the height of the great tribulation.


Revelation 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

______________________________________________________________________________

Revelation 6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[Psalm3704]

NOT AN OPINION IT IS HISTORY

Well this was what you wrote on the bottom of post #59.

So are you following the Bible or a Roman Catholic teaching based on your stated belief of Prophecy?
You all need to verify where some of your beliefs come from.​

http://www.angelfire.com/la2/prophet1/Jesuits.html

So are you following the Bible or a Roman Catholic teaching based on your stated belief of Prophecy?
You all need to verify where some of your beliefs come from.

What's written in post #59 had nothing to do with Daniel's 70th week. You're using an argument against the Catholic church to discredit a prophecy about Israel. It's purely your opinion.

If you have a grievance against the gap theory, well post a link arguing the gap theory.







.

 

[Psalm3704]

So you think Jesus was the transgression?
IT SAYS TO FINISH THE TRANSGRESSION, THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH. HE DIED FOR US

So do you think Jesus' death allows us to continue sinning and not be held accountable?
WHERE DID THIS THINKING COME FROM

So you're saying those Israelites who did not accept the gospel have their sins paid for too?
WHERE DID THIS THINKING COME FROM

So you're saying all the Jews and all of Israel have been considered righteous before God since Christ's death on the cross?
I HAVE NO IDEA WHY YOU WOULD FRAME THIS QUESTION

You got thousands of prophecies that still haven't been fulfilled yet, pretty much 99% of the prophecies about the 70th week in the prophetic books unfulfilled.
IN RIBERA'S FUTURISM ONLY

Was Jesus anointed or was Jesus put to death by the hands of man?
HE WAS ANOINTED AT HIS BAPTISM

That verse is about the millennium temple. Is there a temple currently located in Israel?
NO IT IS IN HEAVEN

So are you telling us Daniel's 70th week is a prophecy about the gentiles?

Was Jesus' death on the cross for Israel and not the church?

HIS BAPTISM COMPLETED THE 69TH WEEK NOT HIS DEATH "And after"

So now are you telling us Jesus' ministry was 7 years in length?

SEE POST #59 AND READ IT TO SEE WHERE YOUR THEOLOGY ON THIS POINT COMES FROM

I did. Maybe you can tell us where Daniel's 70th week and a gap theory is found in post #59?

How do you know what Ribera's futuristic views are from reading that link? What if he's an amillennialist theologian or believes some other view not what you thought he was?













.

 

[iamlamad]

Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Please explain where in the Bible you get authority to take the 70th week and separate it from the other 69 weeks.

Daniel himself, with the help of the Holy Spirit, separated the 70th week from the 69. Did you not read Daniel 9:25-27?

 

[iamlamad]

For those who care here is a little bit of History.

A Counter-Reformation

In 1545, the Catholic Church convened one of its most famous councils in history, which took place north of Rome in a city called Trent. The Council of Trent actually continued for three sessions, ending in 1563. One of the main purposes of this Council was for Catholics to plan a counterattack against Martin Luther and the Protestants. Thus the Council of Trent became a center for Rome’s Counter-Reformation. Up to this point, Rome’s main method of attack had been largely frontal—the open burning of Bibles and of heretics. Yet this warfare only confirmed in the minds of Protestants the conviction that Papal Rome was indeed the Beast which would “make war with the saints” (Revelation 13:7). Therefore a new tactic was needed, something less obvious. This is where the Jesuits come in.

On August 15, 1534, Ignatius Loyola founded a secretive Catholic order called the Society of Jesus, also known as the Jesuits. The Jesuits definitely have a dark history of intrigue and sedition, that’s why they were expelled from Portugal (1759), France (1764), Spain (1767), Naples (1767), and Russia (1820). “Jesuit priests have been known throughout history as the most wicked political arm of the Roman Catholic Church. Edmond Paris, in his scholarly work, The Secret History of the Jesuits, reveals and documents much of this information.”4 At the Council of Trent, the Catholic Church gave the Jesuits the specific assignment of destroying Protestantism and bringing people back to the Mother Church. This was to be done not only through the Inquisition and through torture, but also through theology.

The Jesuit Commission
At the Council of Trent, the Jesuits were commissioned by the Pope to develop a new interpretation of Scripture that would counteract the Protestant application of the Bible’s Antichrist prophecies to the Roman Catholic Church. Francisco Ribera (1537-1591), a brilliant Jesuit priest and doctor of theology from Spain, basically said, “Here am I, send me.” Like Martin Luther, Francisco Ribera also read by candlelight the prophecies about the Antichrist, the little horn, that man of sin, and the Beast. But because of his dedication and allegiance to the Pope, he came to conclusions vastly different from those of the Protestants. “Why, these prophecies don’t apply to the Catholic Church at all!” Ribera said. Then to whom do they apply? Ribera proclaimed, “To only one sinister man who will rise up at the end of time!” “Fantastic!” was the reply from Rome, and this viewpoint was quickly adopted as the official Roman Catholic position on the Antichrist.

“In 1590, Ribera published a commentary on the Revelation as a counter-interpretation to the prevailing view among Protestants which identified the Papacy with the Antichrist. Ribera applied all of Revelation but the earliest chapters to the end time rather than to the history of the Church. Antichrist would be a single evil person who would be received by the Jews and would rebuild Jerusalem.”5 “Ribera denied the Protestant Scriptural Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2) as seated in the church of God—asserted by Augustine, Jerome, Luther and many reformers. He set on an infidel Antichrist, outside the church of God.”6 “The result of his work [Ribera’s] was a twisting and maligning of prophetic truth.”7

Following close behind Francisco Ribera was another brilliant Jesuit scholar, Cardinal Robert Bellarmine (1542-1621) of Rome. Between 1581 and 1593, Cardinal Bellarmine published his “Polemic Lectures Concerning the Disputed Points of the Christian Belief Against the Heretics of This Time.” In these lectures, he agreed with Ribera. “The futurist teachings of Ribera were further popularized by an Italian cardinal and the most renowned of all Jesuit controversialists. His writings claimed that Paul, Daniel, and John had nothing whatsoever to say about the Papal power. The futurists’ school won general acceptance among Catholics. They were taught that Antichrist was a single individual who would not rule until the very end of time.”8 Through the work of these two tricky Jesuit scholars, we might say that a brand new baby was born into the world. Protestant historians have given this baby a name—Jesuit Futurism. In fact, Francisco Ribera has been called the Father of Futurism......

http://www.angelfire.com/la2/prophet1/Jesuits.html

So are you following the Bible or a Roman Catholic teaching based on your stated belief of Prophecy?
You all need to verify where some of your beliefs come from.

No problem! The bible!

 

[iamlamad]

lamad, how do you reconcile Revelation 6:7-8 and Revelation 6:12-17 the cosmos being removed, with the partying and exchanging gifts over the deaths of the two witnesses? At the same time, the armies of the world are assembling at Armageddon? I don't see any partying going on and gift exchanging at the height of the great tribulation.


Revelation 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

No one really knows what is happening with the sky being rolled up. It is certainly NOT the end of the world, for things keep happening in chapters 7, 8, 9, etc. The partying does seem a little out of place as the world prepares for Armageddon, I will agree, but it is truth anyway. Reading about the vials makes it seem like NOTHING ELSE could be happening, yet, the armies of the world (perhaps 70 nations) will all find it possible to gather in Israel!

Perhaps one reason is that some of what takes place in the vials will NOT be world wide, but on the area of the seven nations of which the Beast became the 8th king.

Make no mistake here: the 6th seal events come BEFORE the 70th week begins.

 

[Postvieww]

You mean this part: "But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you!".

I can see why one might think that's the third woe, because it uses the word "woe", although that's far from conclusive. You see, the word "woe" is used all over the Bible. A total of 96 times in fact, so simply seeing that word does not necessarily mean it's one of the three woes of Revelation.

Now you might say that this instance of the word "woe" comes shortly after the other two woes, so therefore it makes sense, but does it really? Or is the book out of order?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to make a fuss about what the three woes really are, because I really don't think it's important, but I just want to make the point that Satan being cast down to earth happened already 2000 years ago. So if that's the third woe, then the first two woes would've happened even earlier than that. Technically possible, I suppose, however, given that the first two woes are tied to trumpets five and six, it would make a lot more sense for the third woe to be tied to trumpet number seven, and we know for a fact that Satan being cast down to earth is not tied to trumpet number seven because trumpet number seven ushers in the judgment and the new earth which we know for a fact to be still future.

Last Seven said:

I just want to make the point that Satan being cast down to earth happened already 2000 years ago.


Would not Revelation 12:4 describe the fall of satan which was much more than 2000 years ago, and Revelation 12:7-10 a different and yet future to us event?

Rev. 12:4 says his tail (the dragons tail) “drew the third part of the stars of heaven” and cast them to the earth, this is different from the war in heaven where Michael cast out the dragon with his angels. I believe Rev 12:4 describes the original rebellion.

After the fall, satan still had access to heaven and stood before God on occasion after Michael cast him down he will no longer have that option. Job 1:6, Job2:1, Rev 12:10

 

[Straightshot]

"Make no mistake here: the 6th seal events come BEFORE the 70th week begins"


The 6 seals are actually portents [previews] of the prevalent conditions coming tribulation, not the events themselves .... the 7th short silence .... and then the tribulation events begin in chapter 8

In looking over the several postings above I think it is good for the posters to sort out the various views .... Revelation is the capstone of prophecy and not easily rendered

One must have an in depth knowledge of the Lord's prophets and how their visions tie in with Revelation's overview .... historical knowledge is essential, and the distinction between Israel and the Gentiles must be applied

There is also a distinction between Israel as a nation and the "church" composed of mainly Gentiles and that Israel is still a separate entity during the coming tribulation period [the 70th week decreed for Israel]

The first step for understanding the frame work correctly and then to fill it in realizing that there is a repetitive layering presented in the subject visions

 

[iamlamad]

Last Seven said:

I just want to make the point that Satan being cast down to earth happened already 2000 years ago.


Would not Revelation 12:4 describe the fall of satan which was much more than 2000 years ago, and Revelation 12:7-10 a different and yet future to us event?

Rev. 12:4 says his tail (the dragons tail) “drew the third part of the stars of heaven” and cast them to the earth, this is different from the war in heaven where Michael cast out the dragon with his angels. I believe Rev 12:4 describes the original rebellion.

After the fall, satan still had access to heaven and stood before God on occasion after Michael cast him down he will no longer have that option. Job 1:6, Job2:1, Rev 12:10

I agree with Post' here. Of course the war in heaven in chapter 12 is future, and it follows right after the kingdoms of the world are taken from Satan and given to Jesus Christ. These are related events. The Only hold Satan ever had on earth was that he usurped Adam's lease on earth. But that was only to go for 6000 years, then the 7th thousand years would be GOD ruling the earth. That 7th thousand years is coming very soon to earth.