Woe, Woe, Woe

[iamlamad]

"Make no mistake here: the 6th seal events come BEFORE the 70th week begins"


The 6 seals are actually portents [previews] of the prevalent conditions coming tribulation, not the events themselves .... the 7th short silence .... and then the tribulation events begin in chapter 8

In looking over the several postings above I think it is good for the posters to sort out the various views .... Revelation is the capstone of prophecy and not easily rendered

One must have an in depth knowledge of the Lord's prophets and how their visions tie in with Revelation's overview .... historical knowledge is essential, and the distinction between Israel and the Gentiles must be applied

There is also a distinction between Israel as a nation and the "church" composed of mainly Gentiles and that Israel is still a separate entity during the coming tribulation period [the 70th week decreed for Israel]

The first step for understanding the frame work correctly and then to fill it in realizing that there is a repetitive layering presented in the subject visions

For someone that is supposed to shoot straight, you miss it way too often! You are miles off in your theory of the seals. They are events of themselves, not related to anything else.
Seal 1: the CHURCH taking the GOSPEL to the world.
Seals 2-4: the DRAGON, the devil, Satan, and his attempts to stop the advance of the gospel.
Seal 5: the martyrs of the CHURCH AGE.
Seal 6: wrap up of the church age: rapture and the trigger for the start of the Day of the Lord.
Seal 7: marker for the start of the 70th week of Daniel: for ISRAEL, not the church.

Your layering theory is bogus and cannot be proven with scripture.

 

[Straightshot]

Well that is what you think son .... I do not agree with you

The actual judgment events begin in Chapter, not before .... the seals are portents giving the prevalent conditions of the coming judgment

And the first 6 trumpets are blown one after the other during the first 1260 days of the tribulation .... the 7th will begin to sound bringing the Lord's wrath and judgment upon the beast and his kingdom

And individual subject visions are layered, repeating and giving more details like Revelation [7:1-8; 14:1-7]

Here is another example Revelation [8:6-12; 14:8; 17:16-18; 18]

And another Revelation [4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17; 11:2; 13:6; 17:14; 19:1-9; 19:14]

If you do not understand prophetic prose you will not understand Revelation's unfolding structure

Study on

 

[keras]

The 6 seals are actually portents [previews] of the prevalent conditions coming tribulation, not the events themselves .... the 7th short silence .... and then the tribulation events begin in chapter 8

Iamlamad is right, the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls are progression of events. Thinking they are previews, overlaps or parallels of those events, is wrong and simply doesn't match with their descriptions or the way they are written.

Lamad's mistake, like so many here, is to fit a 'rapture' somewhere into it all. That that idea is false is proved by Revelation 13:7 and Daniel 7:25, that both say God's holy people will be in the holy Land at the time of the Anti-Christ.

Lamad said: no one knows what the 'sky rolled up like a scroll' means. I have told about the only way this and all the vivid prophesies about the Lord's Day of wrath can happen. It will be a Coronal Mass Ejection, an explosion of the sun's surface, of unprecedented magnitude, that will literally fulfil all those prophesies. Proved by Isaiah 30:26, Psalms 50:1-3
As you say, it isn't the end of the world; most will survive, but it will set the scene for all that must happen leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus.

 

[LastSeven]

Would not Revelation 12:4 describe the fall of satan which was much more than 2000 years ago, and Revelation 12:7-10 a different and yet future to us event?

Because Revelation 12 tells us that his casting out of heaven coincided with Jesus receiving his authority, and Jesus told us that he received his authority when he was on earth 2000 years ago.

Revelation 12:10
Now have come the salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.

Matthew 28:18
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Revelation 12 links these two events together, that's how we know it happened 2000 years ago.

Rev. 12:4 says his tail (the dragons tail) “drew the third part of the stars of heaven” and cast them to the earth, this is different from the war in heaven where Michael cast out the dragon with his angels. I believe Rev 12:4 describes the original rebellion.

After the fall, satan still had access to heaven and stood before God on occasion after Michael cast him down he will no longer have that option. Job 1:6, Job2:1, Rev 12:10

Nowhere does the Bible indicate that Satan still has access to heaven after the events of Revelation 12. You use Job to back up your claim? Job lived thousands of years before Jesus, which means he lived thousands of years before the events of Revelation 12 so if that's all you have then your argument falls apart.

 

[Straightshot]

"Iamlamad is right, the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls are progression of events"


Think what you want, but the seals hold the scroll closed until they are all removed by the Lord [Revelation 5:1-5], only then will the scroll open to the actual events beginning in Chapter 8

All of the seal previews [portents] are examples of the prevailing conditions that will operate throughout the tribulation period ....

The spreading of the gospel of the kingdom

Intense satanic, and human warfare

Worldwide economic collapse

Massive human death

Martyrdom of those who become believers during the tribulation

Upheaval in nature, and the human reaction to the Lord's judgments

........ a short silence in heaven just before the judgments fall


And there is no "sneaking" of the Lord's call for His true ecclesia just before He brings His judgment of the tribulation

This event is not only promised and documented in scripture .... evidence is given as Revelation moves forward .... those who already dwell in heaven [Revelation 4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 13:6; 17:14; 19:1-9; 19:14; 20:4] [those already on thrones]

 

[LastSeven]

"Are you trying to tell me that Jesus saw the future yet spoke about it in the past tense?"

The Lord knows the end from the beginning of all things son .... He also knows the past and knew it before it happened

He created the His universe in the beginning, has given His written word, and holds the future of which He already knows is going to happen .... nothing is done without His providence

You should know these things .... but you speak as if you do not

Until you do, you simply will not be able to render His prophetic word with competence

Something is missing from your religious appeal .... the organization that you follow left the road centuries ago and you should think about what you have been taught

Not sure why you think I need a lesson in what God is capable of, but whatever. Let's skip all that and just look at the passage in question and use some good old common sense and reading skills.

Luke 10
17 The seventy-two returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name.”
18 He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. 20 However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

This passage begins with the disciples expressing amazement at the fact that they have authority over spiritual forces. Jesus proceeds to explain this authority to them, and begins by saying "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven". Clearly he is tying the fall of Satan to the authority that he now has, in the same way Revelation 12 ties the two events together. This is undeniable.

If Satan is still to fall in the future, as you claim, then that authority would also still be in our future. So then how do you explain the authority that the disciples had 2000 years ago, and the fact that Jesus told them he had given it to them?

It really doesn't get much clearer than this, but if you insist that Satan's fall is still future then I'd like to know why you're trying so darn hard to convince yourself of that, in spite of all the scriptural evidence to the contrary? Does your world fall apart if Satan fell 2000 years ago?

 

[tranquil]

lamad, "stand in the holy place" is that what it says in Daniel 12:11-12 about the abomination of desolation?

The abomination of desolation is something that is setup. You are right of course about Jesus saying standing in the holy place. The only way to reconcile the set up and standing - is that the abomination of desolation will be a statue image of the beast in a standing position... that will be placed in the temple.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

We still have the issue of the man of sin revealing himself by going into the temple and "sitting" (not "stand" like Jesus said in Matthew24) claiming to have achieved God-hood. Which is the 2thessalonians2:3-4 passage. If you look at Daniel 8, the little horn and that vision of him descecrating the temple, in the text it doesn't call that the abomination of desolation - but the transgression of desolation.

That's a very important distinction. Because it takes a person to transgress something - in this case what is going to be transgressed is the Mt. Sinai covenant that the children of Israel would be God's people and He their God. So the transgression of desolation is tha act of the future king of Israel - the Antichrist - transgressing the covenant, which will be going into the temple "sitting" claiming to have achieved God-hood. "of desolation" means that because of the act the praise and worship of God will not be done at that time - the temple desolated.

So if we look at Daniel 12:12 blessed is he who remains faithful til the 1335 days - which we can presume is the Day Jesus returns at the end of the 7 years, day 2520, we can count back 1335 days to know that the abomination of desolation will be setup on day 1185 on the 7 year timeline.

So we know that the abomination of desolation is the standing stature image of the beast. But to become the beast the person has to be killed and come back to life. Do we have a basis?

Yes, we know that the person goes into the temple - SITS - not stands, and claims to have achieved God-hood. In Ezekiel 28:1-10, albeit said to be a message to the prince of tyre, it is really about the revealed man of sin. It says God has him killed for "SITTING" in God's seat showing the world that he is God (paraphrased). So that how he gets killed.

Then the person finding himself in hell, in Isaiah 14, God in disdain for the person cast him out of the grave - because he destroys his people and his land. That is how the person comes back to life - as the beast.

Which brings up to Revelation 11, AT THE END OF THEIR TESTIMONY, not the beginning, the beast makes war on the two witnesses and kills them. It is at the end of the 1260 days. The first half of the seven years.

The 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 cannot be the second half - because the war in heaven takes place after the 1260 days - which results in Satan being cast down the time, times, half times, the second half.

It's the 1260 days, 12;6, then the war in heaven in the text; then the time, times, half times of 12:14.

The 3rd woe is the 7th trumpet, but Revelation 12 goes back to the 1st trumpet.

When is Satan cast down to earth? At the 1st Trumpet. The hail and fire are the same as Revelation 12:4

The burning mountain of the 2nd Trumpet is Lucifer/ Babylon / satan. Isaiah 14 equates Lucifer to Babylon. Jeremiah 51:24-25 equates Babylon to the burning mountain. Babylon = burning mountain of the 2nd Trumpet = Lucifer = Satan.

When Satan (Lucifer/ Babylon/ the 'star fallen from heaven unto earth'/ the 'burning mountain') is thrown down, Apollyon/ Abaddon is released from the pit (see Revelation 9:1). 5 months later at Yom Kippur/ day of atonement, 'Israel' will make the 7 year covenant/ Mosaic covenant. The 1260 days of the 2 witnesses is the 1st half of this 7 year covenant. This is the 6th trumpet/ 2nd woe.

The 7th trumpet is the 2nd half of this 7 year covenant that is truncated in terms of tribulation.

the 7th trumpet is when the saints are rewarded (at the 2nd half)
Revelation 11:14-18

14 The second woe has passed; behold, the third woe is soon to come.

15 Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.” 16 And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.​

What kind of reward is getting warred upon by Satan, if as you say that the 3rd woe/ 7th trumpet is the beast from the sea? Would that really qualify as a reward?

Thus the saints are warred upon by the beast from the sea and beast from the earth during the 1st half

The 3rd woe is the 7th trumpet, but Rev 12 is the 1st half of the 7 year covenant (6th Trumpet/ 2nd woe)

​

 

[Straightshot]

"It really doesn't get much clearer than this, but if you insist that Satan's fall is still future then I'd like to know why you're trying so darn hard to convince yourself of that'


Do you think that Satan still has access to heaven at this time ?

Do you understand what this means ? [Revelation 12:12]

Satan will not be extinguished until [Revelation 20:10]

So if you want to hide your head in the sand and think that Satan is not still at large and operating as the "god" of this present world you are sorely mistaken

The problem with the preteristic view .... it is too convenient, and not realistic [2 Peter 3:2-10]

 

[LastSeven]

Do you think that Satan still has access to heaven at this time ?

No, he doesn't.

Do you understand what this means ? [Revelation 12:12]

Yes. It means Satan has been cast down to the earth.

Satan will not be extinguished until [Revelation 20:10]

And? We're not talking about when Satan is "extinguished". We're talking about when he was cast down to earth. Two very different things.

So if you want to hide your head in the sand and think that Satan is not still at large and operating as the "god" of this present world you are sorely mistaken

You're making a lot of assumptions about what I believe. You're also getting off track. The question is, was Satan cast down to earth 2000 years ago? The Bible says he was cast down when Jesus received his authority, and we know that happened 2000 years ago, so logic dictates that Satan was also cast down 2000 years ago. And if you think that part is still future, then you must also think Jesus hasn't received his authority yet. Is that what you believe?

The problem with the preteristic view .... it is too convenient, and not realistic [2 Peter 3:2-10]

Convenient? I'm not sure what's "convenient" about it.

 

[Straightshot]

"Satan cast down to earth 2000 years ago?"


Hardly .... his casting is still future

You have no proof to the contrary .... not one ounce, in fact any related scripture that specifies the devil's falling is connected with the Lord's coming judgment

And if you are around at the time you will know it .... like a badger in your pants will Satan be [Revelation 12:12]

His casting will confine him to the earth .... no where else to range .... like a caged lion .... restricting his jurisdiction

It is convenient to say that all has passed .... no future prophecies to be fulfilled .... so why not ignore?

This teaching is one of a scoffer who denies that the Lord is intent upon many significant things that should humble a man to seek Him

If there seems to be no consequence for a man's behavior, then the man runs away on his own and misses the essence of the Lord's offer to save Him

This is what people do .... not good for the man

Hiding from reality and ignoring like the people in Noah's day .... this is reality today

When the Lord cleans house .... there is no residue left

 

[W2L]

"Satan cast down to earth 2000 years ago?"


Hardly .... his casting is still future

You have no proof to the contrary .... not one ounce

And if you are around at the time you will know it .... like a badger in your pants [Revelation 12:12]

His casting will confine him to the earth .... no where else to range .... like a caged lion

It is convenient to says that all has passed .... no future prophecies to be fulfilled, very significant ones

This teaching is one of a scoffer who denies that the Lord is intent upon many significant things that should humble a man to seek Him

If there seems to be no consequence for a man's behavior, then the man runs away on his own and misses the essence of the Lord's offer to save Him

This is what people do .... not good for the man

Hiding from reality and ignoring like the people in Noah's day .... this is reality today

When the Lord cleans house .... there is no residue left

Consider Colossians 3. We are already raised and our life is hidden with Christ in God, in heaven. Woe to those who are on the earth, but rejoice o ye heavens and you who dwell there!

 

[Straightshot]

Satan is coming to the earth .... his casting

The Lord will use him to vex, torment, and destroy an unbelieving world .... and then He will turn on this devil and destroy him forever

There is no past point where the Lord gained the upper hand against Satan

.... the Lord created him in the first place, until the devil rebelled against Him

And He has never lost control .... He has just put him on a short leash .... for now

 

[LastSeven]

"Satan cast down to earth 2000 years ago?"
Hardly .... his casting is still future

You have no proof to the contrary .... not one ounce

What? Are you serious right now? I've posted the proof several times already. Isn't that what we've been discussing? Have you not been reading my posts?

Well, let's try it again, but this time pay attention. Here's the proof:

First, Luke 10
17 The seventy-two returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name.”
18 He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. 20 However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

So here we see that Jesus links his authority (WHICH WE KNOW HE RECEIVED 2000 YEARS AGO), to the falling of Satan like lightning from heaven.

Furthermore, in Matthew 28:18 he again clearly states that he has received his authority.

Matthew 28:18
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

So obviously it's undeniable that Jesus received his authority 2000 years ago and also gave it to his disciples. Unless of course you deny the Bible, but I'm going to go on the assumption that you actually believe what the Bible says, and so I have to assume that we agree that Jesus received his authority 2000 years ago.

Now look at Revelation 12. Here too we see the receiving of his authority linked to the casting down of Satan.

Revelation 12
The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.

So, there you have it. We have one event which we know happened 2000 years ago (Jesus receiving his authority) and then two different passages of scripture that link this event with the hurling down of Satan, which means Satan being hurled down also happened 2000 years ago. There's your proof. And if you think that's not convincing enough then feel free to explain why you think so, but you certainly can't say there's no proof.

 

[Straightshot]

"What? Are you serious right now? I've posted the proof several times already. Isn't that what we've been discussing? Have you not been reading my posts?"


Do you know who Jesus Christ is?

You say that when Jesus got His "authority" 2000 years ago, the devil was thrown down

I have to tell you that the Lord has had "authority" over Satan since the beginning .... not a new thing as you seem to imply .... in fact the Lord made the angel who rebelled against Him [Isaiah 14; Ezekiel 28; John 1:1-14]

The Lord of creation has had and always has His authority to do His will with Satan, or anyone else

And you state the throwing down was 2000 ago .... really?

Do your think that Satan has curbed his adventure to over throw the Lord and to destroy humanity as we speak?

This one is still at large son .... do you get out much? .... look around

And you say 2000 years ago the devil was cast out .... get real

Here is what the Lord has revealed about Satan's casting [Revelation 12:12]

Your idea of a 2000 year event is not a short one .... his casting to the earth is still pending and it will not last as long .... Revelation's unfolding will last for 2550 days and then Satan will be degraded even more .... cast into the abyss

And after another 1000 years the Lord is going to fire him .... if you know what I mean

Of course you don't believer all of this drama and think the Lord is finished in His dealing with this reprobate cherub among other things

 

[iamlamad]

What? Are you serious right now? I've posted the proof several times already. Isn't that what we've been discussing? Have you not been reading my posts?

Well, let's try it again, but this time pay attention. Here's the proof:

First, Luke 10
17 The seventy-two returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name.”
18 He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. 20 However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

So here we see that Jesus links his authority (WHICH WE KNOW HE RECEIVED 2000 YEARS AGO), to the falling of Satan like lightning from heaven.

Furthermore, in Matthew 28:18 he again clearly states that he has received his authority.

Matthew 28:18
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

So obviously it's undeniable that Jesus received his authority 2000 years ago and also gave it to his disciples. Unless of course you deny the Bible, but I'm going to go on the assumption that you actually believe what the Bible says, and so I have to assume that we agree that Jesus received his authority 2000 years ago.

Now look at Revelation 12. Here too we see the receiving of his authority linked to the casting down of Satan.

Revelation 12
The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.

So, there you have it. We have one event which we know happened 2000 years ago (Jesus receiving his authority) and then two different passages of scripture that link this event with the hurling down of Satan, which means Satan being hurled down also happened 2000 years ago. There's your proof. And if you think that's not convincing enough then feel free to explain why you think so, but you certainly can't say there's no proof.

I am not sure where you are coming from here. Jesus was the WORD before He was the Son of Man. He had all the authority of God as the Word or second person of the trinity. And when he was born, He was born, NOT as a son of Adam, for God was His father. He assumed all the authority that was given to Adam when He was born.

HOWEVER, God is a very legal God, and when Jesus was born, Satan had been the god of this planet since Adam. God could not and would not kick Satan out at that time. Remember when Jesus was casting out devils, some demons said, "are you going to torment us before the time?" They knew their time was not up. Satan knows his time is still not up. He is still allowed access into the heavenlies, as Paul has written time and again. He is the prince of the power of the air or atmosphere.

What you are ignoring is the chronology of Revelation! It is a story of the future, written like a history book but in advance. John walks us through the church age, then into the Day of the Lord, then covers the 70th week (from chapter 8 to chapter 16) all in the proper order. John takes a break from his real-time time-line of the seals, trumpets and vials, between the 6th and 7th seals, and again between the 6th and 7th trumpets. Indeed, the midpoint break in the trumpets continues on from chapter 10 to chapter 14. I call this his "intermission." But even the events in the intermission are written in order.

The only parts that are not in Chronological order are parentheses. We find them by study. Rev. 12:1-5 is such a parenthesis: about the birth of Christ and having no bearing on John's chronology.

Think about the scroll or book in the FAther's hand. Why did God show this to John? I think because of the great importance of the book. It was VITAL to find someone worthy to break the seals so this book could be opened. Why?

The book, I am convinced, is the title deed or lease document of earth given to Adam. When Adam sinned, Satan usurped his lease and took over his authority and dominion of the planet. The truth is, if no one had ever been found worthy to break the seals, then Satan would remain the god of this world forever. THANK GOD Jesus was found worthy! When He began to break the seals (32 AD) it was the beginning of the end of Satan's reign as god of this world.

Very soon now the 6th and 7th seal will be broken, and earth will be in the 70th week of Daniel. Then, just as John has outlined, at the midpoint of the week, the man of sin will enter the temple and declare himself god. At that moment the 7th trumpet will sound in heaven, marking the midpoint.

But at that 7th trumpet, Adam's 6000 year lease EXPIRES! Suddenly Satan's only hold to earth is GONE! The kingdoms are officially transferred from Satan to Jesus Christ, and Michael immediately goes after Satan to cast him down to earth. You might say his wings got clipped. He is cast down VERY ANGRY for he will know he has only 1260 days of authority and shortly after that, will be bound for a thousand years.

Therefore, trying to take this battle in chapter 12 OUT of its context ends up leaving you with nonsense. Leave it in the context!

Now, I will agree, in the first five verses, where Jesus shows John the events of His birth, John sees the dragon of long long ago, when he was kicked out of heaven, and took 1/3 of the angels with him. But I don't think you were speaking of these verses.

 

[Waterwerx]

My best educated guess is that the three woes encompass those events that involve the 5th, 6th, and 7th trumpets, with each one growing in scope/magnitude. The 5th is obvious since the 3-woe warning precedes the 5th trumpet and the 5th trumpet is completed with the warning of 2 remaining woes yet to come.
The second woe is initiated with the 6th trumpet and completed in Revelation 11:13 .
Although our Bibles interpret it as 7,000 being killed in the earthquake, the Greek rendering indicates 7,000 men of renown, which leaves open the possibility of there being many others of lower social stature who are killed along with the 7,000.
The third woe is initiated with the 7th trumpet and includes the bowl judgments. Things start to get a little confusing at this point because after the 7 bowls, the fall of religious and commercial Babylon are mentioned. If the beast does away with the unified religious system at the mid-point of the tribulation, it raises the question of why it would be mentioned/placed at or near the end of the tribulation. I'll have to revisit and review this at some point.

 

[Straightshot]

My comment

The 7th trumpet will involve the Lord's turning upon Satan's beast and his kingdom ending in the battle of Armageddon [the 7 bowel judgments/thunders] [Ezekiel 38; 39; Joel 2; 3; Micah 5; Zechariah 14; Revelation 14:14 -20; 16:1-21; 19:11-21]

Again .... the seals of the scroll containing the events of the judgment are portents of the same and all must be removed by the Lord just before the tribulation begins .... His removal is still pending as we speak

Revelation is not written in strict chronological order, but is a series of subject visions that repeat with the revealing of more related details of the subject

The "great city" of MBG [the entire unbelieving world] will be the first judgment upon the earth involving the first 4 trumpets [Revelation 8:6-12]

This same subject is repeated as the narrative moves forward [Revelation 14:8; 17:16-18; 18; 19:1-9]

However, the event of the judgment of the "great city" is the same and will occur at the beginning of the tribualtion .... the effects of this heart of MBG will be devastating across all of the cities of the nations

Another example of this revolving and repeating characteristic of Revelation's prose is found here [Revelation 7:1-8; 14:1-7]

The sealing of the 144000 must take place just before the tribulation begins .... then these will set out to preach the gospel of the kingdom under the Lord's guidance

Here is another .... Satan [star] is seen at the beginning of the tribulation and falling to the earth for releasing his beast and contingent of fallen angels to rage upon the earth [Revelation 8:11; 9:1-21; 11:7; 12:12; 13:1-4; 17:8-18]

Look for the subject set of a particular vision and follow the same as the narrative of Revelation moves forward .... a kaleidoscopic pattern

Another example; here is the pre-tribulation immortal "church" [Revelation 3:10; 4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 12:12; 13:6; 17:14; 18:4; 19:1-9; 19:14; 20:4 [those already on thrones]]

The tribulation period will consist of 1260 days + 1260 days + 30 days

The first 1260 will see the rising of Satan's beast in the human little horn of Daniel's visions, the destruction of the "great city" of MBG, the little horn's confederation of his kingdom by conquering and making alliances, the little horn's invasion and subjugation of Israel at the end of the first 1260 days, His rule over the holy land for the second 1260 days, and his defeat at the battle of Armageddon in the next 30 days

Then Satan will be sent to the abyss and the Lord's millennial kingdom upon the earth will begin

And at the ending of the 1000 years, Satan will be released to cause a final human rebellion which the Lord will quickly put down

Then He will impose the second death upon all of the unbelieving spirits of humanity from the beginning of human creation

And His eternal kingdom with new heavens and a new earth will begin and last forever

 

[tickingclocker]

Because there are three woes associated with the last three trumpets. Trumpets 5, 6,7. One of those is said to be the release of the tormenting locust and their angel king Abaddon in the text.

Revelaiton 9:11 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

The one woes past is trumpet 5, the tormenting locust and Abaddon. Only two trumpets left for the next two woes. The sixth angel sounds his trumpet, announcing the second of the woes to the people of the earth.

13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

When John gets to the vision in Revelation 11:14, he is reminded that two of the woes are past, shown to him, he is about to quickly find out what the third woe is.

The seventh angel sounds his trumpet, which God asserts His will and the kingdoms of this world are at that moment to be taken from Satan's dominion, which the first step is to cast him and his principality down to earth - the war in heaven and Satan is cast down - woe to the inhabitors of the earth and sea, Revelation 12:12.

The last three trumpets, three woes, involving three sets of angels.

trumpet 5 - Abaddon
trumpet 6 - the 4 Euphrates angels
trumpet 7 - Satan and his angels.

This may sound like a dumb question from a lurker, but why are there four demon angels "bound in the Euphrates River"? Who put them there when, and why?

 

[Straightshot]

The four fallen angels are the leaders of those bound at the Euphrates .... all directed by Satan himself

Satan will be allowed to activate these imprisoned angels when the Lord removes His current restraint against Satan which will allow him to bring his beast, false prophet, and myriads of fallen ones to rage upon the earth during the coming tribulation

The Euphrates River is in the region of the Middle East where Satan has meddled with human Middle Eastern Kingdoms in the past, and when these kingdoms fell those fallen angels involved were bound at the Euphrates to be released at the time of the end of this present age for participation in the coming tribulation .... these particular 200 million will be employed to hunt and kill billions of humans

 

[Douggg]

This may sound like a dumb question from a lurker, but why are there four demon angels "bound in the Euphrates River"? Who put them there when, and why?

I think demons and angels are two different things. As I understand it, the demons or unclean spirits is the word used in the four gospels, are the disembodied spirits of what were the nephilim and rephelim.

That was not your question though. And my answer is "I don't know". And I don't know what "bound in the Eurphrates River means either.

I was just trying to address the three woes. I think everyone here should be able to agree on what the first two woes are.

It is that third woe is where all the controversy is. And when the seventh trumpet sounds on the seven year timeline.

It may be there are four angels bound in the river Euphrates to represent the four directions of the compass.

One of the things I think of is the size of the army as 200 million, is the Asian armies cored by the Chinese - that near the end of the seven years as they march to the middle east to fight against the beast, king of the Western block of nations, the third of mankind killed will be in India and Pakistan which will be in their path. And if those two nations are seen as allied with the beast, that would be the incentive.

Do you have any ideas on the four angels ?