Witchcraft...Wicca...Satanism?

[WiccanWarrior]

Ummm... jrm, forgive me if I am wrong, but I am kind of confused on what you said. It seemed to me that you said that you have met a few wiccans who became wiccan ater they were catholic or christian. It seemed to me as though you said that they were all deacent people on the human scale because they held on to a part of their christianity... is that supposed to mean that many of us, if we dont hang on to christianity in one way or another, are not deacent people "on the human scale?"

 

[jrmorganjr]

Hi Wiccan Warrior,

Your quote:

is that supposed to mean that many of us, if we dont hang on to christianity in one way or another, are not deacent people "on the human scale?"

Not at all. I was simply making an experiential observation. In other words, in my limited experience, wiccans who attempt to integrate Christianity have all been interesting, decent seeming people, whereas those who do not integrate Christianity do not have this common characteristic. I was not attempting to make a value judgement.

I have discussed wicca with wiccans who were not at all beholden to Christianity. I would not characterize them as interesting & decent, although some of them were.

My sample size is fairly small, perhaps 10 or so, so I make no claim to scientific legitimacy. I was just putting a post in the ground and seeing if anyone else with more authority or experience would correlate or deny my observations.

I would note that it seems to me that defenders of wicca tend to play the "they're not really a wicca" game even more than Christians do in their realm, but since they lack a (divine?) authoritative source of belief (correct me if I'm wrong here), it is more difficult to judge between 2 wicca with opposing positions. I should confess that I believe there is an absolute moral truth which is God's, and that wicca seems very relativistic in its approach to morality and truth.

 

[soldourado]

Originally posted by jrmorganjr
Thanks for the info, soldourado. How would you compare witchcraft & wiccan? Druidism & wicca?

Do you believe in Christ, do you feel you had to walk away from the Christian God to follow your path? I've met a few wiccans who like to try to walk the middle of the road and somewhat reconcile the two. I don't think that's legitimate, mind you, but each one of the wiccans who held on to their Christianity in some way was a thoroughly nice and enjoyable sort of person, on the human scale.

Again, thanks for joining in.

Hi jrmorganjr

Sorry it took me so long to reply
As for part one of your post (witchraft & wicca, wicca&druidism):

the word "witch", like "new age", is/can also be considered an umbrella term, that is, it encompasses all pagan religions (as far as I know) from the gentle nature loving wiccans to the demonic and satanic evil Santerians/Satanists (I think, correct me if im wrong). Wicca is witchcraft b/c the word witch and wicca come from "wicce" wich means wise so witchraft means: "Craft of the Wise". But I am pretty sure that pagans other than wiccans also call themselves witches...not sure...

Druidism, I havent read much on that but I have read a teency wincy little bit aren't/weren't druids ussually male elders and philosophers? I have not read much about them.

On Christ,
I used to believe in Jesus (not 100%, but... well I dont know) I now have strong feelings about him not being the messiah but that doesnt mean he isn't, those are just MY beliefs.

There is no such thing as a wiccan christian/christian wiccan as far as I know but there is such a thing as a christian witch. There are those that Believe in Jesus as the messiah but they practice what you would call "witchcraft". They do not believe it goes against christ, they follow him...

Well hope this was helpfull. I will probably end up editing this at one point or another if I forgot a point.

Blessed Be!

 

[jrmorganjr]

Np on the long response. Lives get busy!

Thanks for the info, it helped. I would add that the druid movement is, apparently, alive and reviving. Female druids are druidesses, I believe. Some of the societies in the region where druidism held sway at the time were decidedly matriarchal, but I'm not sure how that interplay worked out, or even if anyone knows for sure.

A "Christian witch". Hmmm. Doesn't sound right to my conservative ears. But there you go.

Anyway, take care, and may God find you.

 

[kern]

Well, that does raise an interesting question about the "Christian witch". If someone really believes in their heart that witchcraft is not evil (despite what the Bible says), is it possible for them to saved? I think the answer has to be "yes" otherwise you are saying that some sins separate you from God and others don't. I suppose some might believe this, but I don't recall ever hearing this as an expressed doctrine.

-Chris

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by kern
Well, that does raise an interesting question about the "Christian witch". If someone really believes in their heart that witchcraft is not evil (despite what the Bible says), is it possible for them to saved? I think the answer has to be "yes" otherwise you are saying that some sins separate you from God and others don't. I suppose some might believe this, but I don't recall ever hearing this as an expressed doctrine.

Exactly one sin, "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit", can separate you from God. I don't know exactly what it is, although I've read several papers on it. I think it's generally accepted that if the question of whether or not you could have committed it seems of any interest, you haven't.

 

[jrmorganjr]

I think a lot of the threads I've been reading lately confirm one thing: We are all sinners, and we all need redeeming. All sin warrants death, "abomination" is a clarifying descriptor that causes many to jump up and down, but it still turns out to be just plain old horrible miserable death-dealing sin in the end.

Christ forgives sin. All sin. The only requirement is belief in him as Lord & Savior, and commensurate repentance. Now, my walk into grace and my gratitude for what God has done in me will manifest itself in my attempts to walk the most exact path of righteousness I can ferret for myself. Other paths may be be more or less true, and I should judge them for fruit as best I can, but that is not a salvation question. It is a close or closer walk to him question.

So I can envision that a Christian witch might be saved. I think it's not a particularly optimally righteous path, but still, a brother or sister in Christ may be on it.

I do have an inkling about how much God hates sin, so I don't want to wander into too much tolerance of sin. But grace is greater than sin.

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by jrmorganjr

I do have an inkling about how much God hates sin, so I don't want to wander into too much tolerance of sin. But grace is greater than sin.

AMEN!

 

[Mid]

oh, yes magick is quite real and as ex christian said it is neither good nor evil. We dont believe in such defined forces. (No, I am not a wiccan and I am not afraid to wack a person with a curse if they alter my life in a negetive way. I will also cast positive healing spells {more often than the other, I ve only done the other once}. Christians perform magic in a certain form, also. So you have no right to bad mouth the pagans OR fear them (perhaps voodists or the sorts \chuckles\)
Merely respect us the same way that you want to be treated. It is this sort of intolerance that starts wars......

 

[Mid]

soldourado. Let me clarify something.
Satanism is not pagan. It is an inversion of christianity. Pagans do not have anything to do with 'satan' as you call him

 

[Mid]

Not at all. I was simply making an experiential observation. In other words, in my limited experience, wiccans who attempt to integrate Christianity have all been interesting, decent seeming people, whereas those who do not integrate Christianity do not have this common characteristic. I was not attempting to make a value judgement.



wow, talk about contradicting yourself

 

[Sarah :)]

Witchcraft is not Satanism. Satanism is Satanism.

 

[dmjames06]

Yes, Satanism is actually the counter religion of Christianity. Although Witchcraft has the potential to be Satanic, because witchcraft is an eclectic practice that reflects the beliefs of the pracitioner, not the pre-written doctrines of other religions. Witchcraft is a journey into the depths of ones mind and spirit. WITCHCRAFT IS WONDERFUL!!!

 

[Reverend DSD]

Also on the same note though, Witchcraft has the potential to be christian.

 

[Kira Faye]

Actually there is a branch of wiccans tha are christian wiccans who have the wiccan life style but use god and jesus as their dieties and spell casting is merly praying.

 

[Tang_kuanu]

it dumb in my opinion i mean who the heck would want to secure there way to hell rather then going to heaven

 

[SquareC]

it dumb in my opinion i mean who the heck would want to secure there way to hell rather then going to heaven

What is dumb?

A Wiccan doesn't usually believe in heaven or hell, I know I don't. I don't understand the point of this post.

 

[Havoc]

it dumb in my opinion i mean who the heck would want to secure there way to hell rather then going to heaven

What is dumb is assuming that adherants of any religion are actively trying to secure a place in your hell when they have no reason to have that concept of hell.

 

[S3CUR3 1]

Also on the same note though, Witchcraft has the potential to be christian.

OK, I'm a n00b here, so u might not respect this reply, but I just gotta throw it.

This whole discussion is a load of ****. You people have been persuaded by something or someone that is definately not Christian. My uncle (now born again, baptized, broken bonds) used to be a 'wizard' or 'warlock' or whatever you want ot call it, and lemme tell ya, he has told me stories that have kept me up all night. He talks about his 'wiccan' friends, and some of the things they did. They sacrificed virgin teens. They tried to get little children to recite chants. He talks about the Mason's and how they taught the same things as the church of satan. The only thing that is comforting is that neither him or his friends could ever do a thing to hurt his Christian mother. Of course, his father was a different story. They may as well have tortured him. Period.

There is no such thing as 'black' or 'white' magic. Satan is satan. He doesn't give a **** if you use his power for good or evil. All he cares is that your soul is OWN3D. Lemme ask you this. Does a bullet care whose heart it destroys? No. All it cares about is the fact that it has succeded in the task it was made to do. Kill.

Sorry for insulting some people, but it was neccissary.

 

[S3CUR3 1]

That was wierd. I said 'c r a p' there and it beeped it out... :-\