Originally posted by ex_christian
Yes I am wiccan. And yes wiccans do only practice good witchcraft, but in reality there is no "black" or "white" magic, just as there are no good or evil hammers or knives. What matters is HOW you use it. EXAMPLE: A knife can be used to cut food for the needy or to murder someone. The knife is not good or evil, what is good or evil is HOW it is used. Same with a hammer, it can be used to construct or destroy. Same with witchcraft. Magic is a tool that can be used for good or evil. Wiccans do only good.
What is wrong with doing good deeds?
Very good observation on magick (usually written with a k to differentiate from performance magic, visual illusions, etc.)
I'm a Celtic pagan, basically a druid (though not technically.)
I've yet to observe the effects of major spells of real magick, as I've been a part of the celtic path for less than a year, and stuck at college as well.
I have, however, observed the effects of lesser magicks.
by will_wait4Him:
Ok, in 1 Corinthians 10:20, it says that the sacrafices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God. It's basicaly saying, those who practice witchcraft, worship demons, not God or his angels.
I imagine that some pagan sacrifices were offered to demons. But pagan is an extremely broad term. It can refer to "neo-pagan" faiths such as Wicca, or more traditional forms like Celtic paganism/Druidism. I have heard some Christians refer to everything not pertinent to worshipping Jesus... including Judaism and Islam, as pagan. So, with such broad application, it would not surprise me if there were some who sacrificed to demons.
But then we must define demon. Is a demon a deity of destruction such as Morrigan (celtic patron goddess of battle and destruction, granting victory to those she believed were noble in their cause)... or an entity who people believed would come and destroy them if they did not offer praise to it. Many South American native gods of the old religions of the Aztecs, Mayans, etc. would fit the latter description very well.
People often turn to magic because they want more control over what happens to them. They're affraid, and they don't trust God's control of the events in their lives.
Yes, partly this is true. We use magick in order to have a certain ammount of control over our lives... but not in the sense that we have total dominion over everything that happens.
As for being afraid, that is entirely untrue.
Although, I believe that many turn to the trust of Yahweh because they feel they are safest like that.
In other words:
Witches find stability in many things, including magick.
Christians find stability in total trust in your God and Jesus.
The motivation is the same for both actions.
When many people in Ephesus became Christians, they realized the evil in real magic. They burned their books of magic(Acts 19:18-20).
Yes. When the Koptics of ancient Egypt became Christian, they killed most of the priests of the old gods, and burned all their books... including medical texts and science texts, which contained references to magick spells. A great tragedy, as some surviving Egyptian manuscripts just being rediscovered in modern times hint at a civilization more advanced than we'd ever previously thought.
Er, that isn't really relevant to what you said, I just felt like pointing it out.
As for what you said, if Ephesian magick was being used for evil, then maybe the burning of the books was for the best. I don't know the details of the story.
Turn away from magic. You don't need it, God will light your path to a pure life, just have faith in him.
This may be true in some cases, but not all, and you certainly don't need magick if you are a Christian.
However, for some religions, magick is a very important part, comparable to prayer in fact.
Prayer = asking your god to do something
Magick = telling your god to do something
Magick definition 2 = manipulating divine energy, and not specific god/goddess powers themselves
In conclusion, will_wait4Him, I don't necessarily disagree with anything you said, and I totally agree with you when it comes to what is proper Christian conduct regarding magick. However, when applied to religions other than Christianity, then your statements lose some value.
Interesting fact: Saint Bridget of Killarney is actually the canonized version of the Celtic high goddess Brigid. 1,600 or so years ago, the Catholic church was having a lot of trouble converting the last groups of pagan Celts. Most of these groups had particular reverence for Brigid, and so the Church decided to incorporate yet another pagan belief into itself in order to better appeal to the pagans.
Interesting fact 2: The people who dress in white and worship at Stonehenge are actually Christian... in the sense that they believe Jesus to be the Great Sun God prophesied by druids on Britain's main island.
Fact 3, less interesting: Those killed in the Salem witch hunts were not actually witches. That whole undertaking was a politically motivated land grab by the church in Salem Towne, particularly its corrupt minister. However, the reason that the people were executed was because of the church's intolerance of witchcraft, and that is the reason why so many witches flock to Salem now. Wiccans in particular have a deep respect for those killed in the name of religion.
from Blondie_123:
As for Satanism, well, that's obviously bad right there. That's the "Let's kill people for sacrifices to Lucifer" type of stuff. That, my friends, is downright wrong.
Absolutely "Let's kill people for sacrifices to Lucifer" is a horrible thing to do. However, it should be noted that most forms of
formal Satanism (chief amongst which is LaVeyan Satanism, founded by Anton S. LaVey, author of the Satanic Bible) are vehemently opposed to such acts. The American Church of Satan, for example, condemns those who perform blood sacrifices.
As for human sacrifice in other religions, I unilaterally disagree with it.
Admittedly, Celtic pagans used to perform human sacrifice, but it was far different than that which is portrayed on Christian websites decrying Halloween. I'm going to get a bit off-topic here, so feel free to stop reading now.
Some Christians like to say how evil Halloween is because it was a day when Druids sacrificed virgin girls to demons, and would put a jack-o-lantern on the doorsteps of homes which provided a young girl for their grisly undertaking.
In truth, Samhain (celtic holiday falling on october 31st), was meant to celebrate two things.
1) New years eve for the Celts
2) the End of harvest
For many centuries, groups of villages would sacrifice a man (not a girl) in order to show respect for the harvest gods. Virginity was certainly not a virtue for the person being sacrificed, as sex was seen as a sort of waypoint for divine energy rather than moral impurity.
As for the number of people sacrificed, it was usually one person per tribe... in other words, very few people were killed each year. Those who were would have been volunteers, or in some cases possibly those dying young from terminal illnesses.
The jack-o-lantern part is pure fiction.
The "demons" part is pure fiction. There is no devil or hell in Celtic beliefs, and thus no demons or any real divine forces of malevolence.
Sacrifices were discontinued once it was realized that they were unnecessary. The gods did not want us killing each other for them.