Why Would We Need to Obey God's Laws?

[stuart lawrence]

Why keep responding when the understanding is not there?

You think you understand Pauls message. Let's see.

Why are sinfull passions aroused in people by the law if they live under it?
Rom7:5

 

[danstribe]

If you want to discuss Psalms:

Do not bring your servant Into judgement, for NO ONE living us righteous before you
Psalms143:2

No one was truly righteous under the OC by observing the law, as they are not under the NC either

But they did the best they could didn't they? At least those that God chose to give His Spirit to such as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David etc.

 

[stuart lawrence]

But they did the best they could didn't they? At least those that God chose to give His Spirit to such as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David etc.

Oh boy.
The best they could do didn't make them truly righteous before God did it!

 

[stuart lawrence]

For the record David's bottom line wasn't trying to be truly righteous under the law. It was something else:

I trust in your unfailing love forever and ever.

And the expression of Gods unfailing love to us under the NC is Christ dying for our sins at Calvary
The expression of that unfailing love is what Christians are called to trust in, allways

 

[danstribe]

As I said, you don't understand the message:

Do we then nullify the law by this faith( a righteousness of faith in Christ not observing the law) Not at all! Rather we uphold the law
Rom3:31

You seem to have added your own idea into it. "A righteousness of faith in Christ not observing the law" is NOT in the passage. Leave it like it is and take it to mean exactly what it says
"Do we, then, nullify the Law by this faith? By no means! Instead, we uphold the Law."
Does it nullify the law because we have faith? NO! Does it say don't try to keep the law because we can't do it perfectly? NO! Does it say the law is upheld? YES! Believe what it says.

 

[ToBeLoved]

But they did the best they could didn't they? At least those that God chose to give His Spirit to such as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David etc.

Their best was not enough to save them from God's wrath though, was it?

Each of the partriarch's were justified because of their faith, not the law.

So your own example has failed you.

 

[stuart lawrence]

You seem to have added your own idea into it. "A righteousness of faith in Christ not observing the law" is NOT in the passage. Leave it like it is and take it to mean exactly what it says
"Do we, then, nullify the Law by this faith? By no means! Instead, we uphold the Law."
Does it nullify the law because we have faith? NO! Does it say don't try to keep the law because we can't do it perfectly? NO! Does it say the law is upheld? YES! Believe what it says.

You must read the Bible as a cohesive whole to properly understand it. Paul has spent the previous ten verses stressing the Christian has a righteousness apart from observing the law. They are justified apart from observing the law. They are justified by faith( in Christ)
What are some of his readers going to think? The same as you think!

If we are justified apart from observing the law, we can ignore the law and live as we want.

So to stop that false impression Paul wrote verse31.

And what I inserted for your convenience is true. If you understood Pauls core message you would know it to be true

 

[ToBeLoved]

You seem to have added your own idea into it. "A righteousness of faith in Christ not observing the law" is NOT in the passage. Leave it like it is and take it to mean exactly what it says
"Do we, then, nullify the Law by this faith? By no means! Instead, we uphold the Law."
Does it nullify the law because we have faith? NO! Does it say don't try to keep the law because we can't do it perfectly? NO! Does it say the law is upheld? YES! Believe what it says.

Are those Bible verses or your opinion?

Please label the book, chapter and verse if it is the Bible.

Otherwise it is not. No paraphrasing here.

 

[danstribe]

Oh boy.
The best they could do didn't make them truly righteous before God did it!

Oh boy, they looked forward to Christ who will make them truly righteous when they are resurrected, but they did not refuse to keep the law and God called them righteous because He too knew that Christ would perfect them in the resurrection. Look, don't keep the law if that's what you believe, as for me I will continue to keep it by the Spirit of Christ in me and I will continue to live under His forgiveness.

 

[AlexDTX]

WE do struggle with massive temptations, if we didn't then we would be liars and the truth would not be in us.

You mean you struggle with sin and massive temptations. You exaggerate the epistle of John by connecting a struggle of massive temptations with our being liars and the truth not in you. The very reason you struggle is because you live by the law and not grace. The more you focus on the law the more it magnifies sin. But magnification does [not] increase the sin. A tiny bug viewed under a magnifier will make the bug appear huge, but it is still a little bug. You have massive temptation because you magnify the temptation by dwelling upon it.

The reason for talking about this to those who are called Christian but think that they have no need to stop sinning, or that they don't sin at all, is because that mindset is a very dangerous thing to have especially at this point in time.

You assume the worst in the body of Christ. How can you edify the saints if you are convinced everyone is struggling with sin like you? You can bring hope and joy to anyone with your cause. The more you champion obeying the law, even the law of Christ, the more help the devil.

I am very sorry that you don't understand but that is between you and God. You will see one day.

Sir, I have walked with Jesus for 31 years. I know what my Lord expects of me. I am sorry for you, because you live in condemnation when in Christ there is no condemnation.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Oh boy, they looked forward to Christ who will make them truly righteous when they are resurrected, but they did not refuse to keep the law and God called them righteous because He too knew that Christ would perfect them in the resurrection. Look, don't keep the law if that's what you believe, as for me I will continue to keep it by the Spirit of Christ in me and I will continue to live under His forgiveness.

You make the fundamental mistake so many make.
Just because you are not under a righteousness of observing the law does NOT( NOT) mean you don't want or need to live as God desires you to live. The law is in your heart. So in your heart you want to obey it. But if you know the truth, you know you cannot be righteous by obeying it, for that would require perfect obedience of it

 

[danstribe]

You must read the Bible as a cohesive whole to properly understand it. Paul has spent the previous ten verses stressing the Christian has a righteousness apart from observing the law. They are justified apart from observing the law. They are justified by faith( in Christ)
What are some of his readers going to think? The same as you think!

If we are justified apart from observing the law, we can ignore the law and live as we want.

So to stop that false impression Paul wrote verse31.

And what I inserted for your convenience is true. If you understood Pauls core message you would know it to be true

I am sad for you, to think you can ignore the law of God and live as you want. I will pray for you.

 

[stuart lawrence]

I am sad for you, to think you can ignore the law of God and live as you want. I will pray for you.

Quote my post where I stated I am free to ignore the law of God.
The true sadness is in you not understanding the NC I'm afraid

 

[ToBeLoved]

I am sad for you, to think you can ignore the law of God and live as you want. I will pray for you.

You have not even begun to support your position clearly with any type of theology. I would not feel sorry for someone else if you cannot explain what you believe clearly enough for someone else to understand. That is on you brother.

What does God's Word say?

1 Peter 3:15
15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.

 

[danstribe]

You mean you struggle with sin and massive temptations. You exaggerate the epistle of John by connecting a struggle of massive temptations with our being liars and the truth not in you. The very reason you struggle is because you live by the law and not grace. The more you focus on the law the more it magnifies sin. But magnification does increase the sin. A tiny bug viewed under a magnifier will make the bug appear huge, but it is still a little bug. You have massive temptation because you magnify the temptation by dwelling upon it.



You assume the worst in the body of Christ. How can you edify the saints if you are convinced everyone is struggling with sin like you? You can bring hope and joy to anyone with your cause. The more you champion obeying the law, even the law of Christ, the more help the devil.



Sir, I have walked with Jesus for 31 years. I know what my Lord expects of me. I am sorry for you, because you live in condemnation when in Christ there is no condemnation.

I am a woman and I have been walking with Christ for 32 years and as a child of His I know better than to condemn anyone. For those who would follow Christ and their desire is to live as He lived I will always encourage them to love the law of God and to know that it is holy and righteous and good and the only way to understand that is to obey them. And those that try to turn the righteous away from obeying God will receive their own payment from God the Father.

 

[stuart lawrence]

I am a woman and I have been walking with Christ for 32 years and as a child of His I know better than to condemn anyone. For those who would follow Christ and their desire is to live as He lived I will always encourage them to love the law of God and to know that it is holy and righteous and good and the only way to understand that is to obey them. And those that try to turn the righteous away from obeying God will receive their own payment from God the Father.

All Christians know Gods laws are holy righteous and good, and Christians in their hearts want to obey God.
And no one is trying to turn anyone away fromobeying God. Your words speak of desperation to me.
Heres Pauls core message summed up in a nutshell. It is a pity you are not willing to understand it:

For sin shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law but under grace
Rom6:14

 

[AlexDTX]

I am a woman and I have been walking with Christ for 32 years and as a child of His I know better than to condemn anyone. For those who would follow Christ and their desire is to live as He lived I will always encourage them to love the law of God and to know that it is holy and righteous and good and the only way to understand that is to obey them. And those that try to turn the righteous away from obeying God will receive their own payment from God the Father.

You have my apologies for calling you "sir". Avatars and pseudonyms make it hard to know what gender one corresponds with.

You say since you have known the Lord for 32 year you know better than to condemn anyone. Yet your message is one of condemnation. As I said before, you assume the worst in everyone, not the best. Love assumes the best in people, but the law only shows the worst. We walk with Jesus and when he gives us a correction that we are not aware of, we repent. But, really, do think the believers in this forum, dishonor their parents? commit adultery? are chronic liars? have murdered someone while they are Christians? There are some who may being doing these things, but not the majority. Most of us are probably dealing with anger, or gossip or some other thing like that. But the love of God towards us is such that he points out one thing at a time and disregards the rest. Discipleship is a process and God is the one who makes the disciples as we cooperate with him. God is not angry with us since his wrath was satiated on the cross. He does discipline us as needed because of his love for us, but, really, do you believe that most Christians remain in the wood shed most of the time.?

And, frankly, since you say you have known the Lord for 32 years, I really doubt that you have a massive struggle with temptations, either. Your cause is the legalistic doctrine promoted by the pulpit who have to champion the Mosaic law to justify their demanding a tithe to support themselves.

The only way to know the holy and righteous God is to to trust Him. Trust Him with everything in your life. We lean not on our own understanding but in all our ways trust in the Lord.

 

[Thursday]

Now I'm sure you are going to answer honestly aren't you.
Do you even try to obey each and every literal command of Christ.
If you don't, how can you be justified according to what you quoted?

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

John 20
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

 

[ToBeLoved]

I am a woman and I have been walking with Christ for 32 years and as a child of His I know better than to condemn anyone. For those who would follow Christ and their desire is to live as He lived I will always encourage them to love the law of God and to know that it is holy and righteous and good and the only way to understand that is to obey them. And those that try to turn the righteous away from obeying God will receive their own payment from God the Father.

Obedience to Christ is not the law. As a matter of fact, Christ gave us two new commandments.

So if you are trying to equate Christ and obedience to Him to the Law, your doing it wrong. What would be correct is to equate the two commandments Christ left us with as the two we must do that fulfill all of the law and the prophets.

We are no longer under the Old Covenant law, we are under the New Covenant of grace. This is the covenant that God promised to all the Old Covenant believers in Jeremiah and Isaiah. The new and better covenant. This is the long awaited promise.

 

[stuart lawrence]

The power of sin is the law( of righteousness) 1cor 15:56

What happens if you remove some things power? It must weaken

Hence, rom3:31&rom6:14