Why Would We Need to Obey God's Laws?

stuart lawrence

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2015
10,527
1,606
65
✟70,925.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

John 20
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
You didn't answer my question.
I asked you what justification entailed. You responded by quoting Jesus words:
If you love me obey my commandments

I will ask you again. Do you try and obey each and every literal command of Christ?

If you do not, do you believe you are not justified/ righteous before God?
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
I will ask you again. Do you try and obey each and every literal command of Christ?
Kind of silly question, isn't it ?

What did the disciples tell JESUS "NO" to when JESUS told them to DO anything ?

(note that if they were wrong/ sinned/ they got chastised right away) ....

Likewise today, what does JESUS tell you to DO TODAY that you just want to ignore ? (or ignore without even hearing HIM)?
 
Upvote 0

stuart lawrence

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2015
10,527
1,606
65
✟70,925.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Kind of silly question, isn't it ?

What did the disciples tell JESUS "NO" to when JESUS told them to DO anything ?

(note that if they were wrong/ sinned/ they got chastised right away) ....

Likewise today, what does JESUS tell you to DO TODAY that you just want to ignore ? (or ignore without even hearing HIM)?
I will ask you a third time. Do you believe Paul preached righteousness/ justification of observing the law?

The answer is a simple yes or no
 
Upvote 0

stuart lawrence

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2015
10,527
1,606
65
✟70,925.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Kind of silly question, isn't it ?

What did the disciples tell JESUS "NO" to when JESUS told them to DO anything ?

(note that if they were wrong/ sinned/ they got chastised right away) ....

Likewise today, what does JESUS tell you to DO TODAY that you just want to ignore ? (or ignore without even hearing HIM)?
I will let Paul answer the question for you:

Therefore no one will be declared righteous/ justified in his sight by observing the law, rather through the law we become conscious of sin
Rom3:20

We who are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we too have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified
Gal2:15&16
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,794
✟322,485.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I will let Paul answer the question for you:

Therefore no one will be declared righteous/ justified in his sight by observing the law, rather through the law we become conscious of sin
Rom3:20

We who are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we too have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified
Gal2:15&16
What is up with people avoiding questions lately on CF. I think instead of asking I'm just going to answer my own question in my reply.
 
Upvote 0

Thursday

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2016
6,034
1,562
59
Texas
✟49,429.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
You didn't answer my question.
I asked you what justification entailed. You responded by quoting Jesus words:
If you love me obey my commandments

I will ask you again. Do you try and obey each and every literal command of Christ?

If you do not, do you believe you are not justified/ righteous before God?


I try, but I fail. I believe I am currently in a state of grace, but if I sin and fall out of grace I can confess my sins.

Salvation is a process, not an event. Sin can separate us from God. It can shipwreck our faith.
 
Upvote 0

stuart lawrence

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2015
10,527
1,606
65
✟70,925.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I try, but I fail. I believe I am currently in a state of grace, but if I sin and fall out of grace I can confess my sins.

Salvation is a process, not an event. Sin can separate us from God. It can shipwreck our faith.
You try to obey each and every literal command of Christ?

How many times have you refused to invite family members home for a meal, so you can instead invite the poor, lame and blind?
How many times have you leapt for joy when you are persecuted?
How many times have you truly in your heart loved your enemies? Those who may slander, malign and hate you
If someone stole something of yours, would you offer them more besides what they stole with nothing but love in your heart for them?

I can carry on if you like. How many times have you striven to obey these Commandments. Remember you say your justification hinges on obeying them
 
Upvote 0

stuart lawrence

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2015
10,527
1,606
65
✟70,925.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I try, but I fail. I believe I am currently in a state of grace, but if I sin and fall out of grace I can confess my sins.

Salvation is a process, not an event. Sin can separate us from God. It can shipwreck our faith.
What is up with people avoiding questions lately on CF. I think instead of asking I'm just going to answer my own question in my reply.
I think people quote random scripture in isolation without considering the whole message. It is true you must read the Bible as a cohesive whole. Then they run into trouble answering questions put to them
 
Upvote 0

stuart lawrence

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2015
10,527
1,606
65
✟70,925.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I try, but I fail. I believe I am currently in a state of grace, but if I sin and fall out of grace I can confess my sins.

Salvation is a process, not an event. Sin can separate us from God. It can shipwreck our faith.
BTW
Justification of observing law does not allow for failure. Perfect obedience or no justification:

For whoever keeps the whole law yet stumbles at JUST ONE POINT is guilty of breaking all if it
James 2:10

Gal3:10&11 states in effect the same
 
Upvote 0

jimmyjimmy

Pardoned Rebel
Site Supporter
Jan 2, 2015
11,556
5,728
USA
✟234,973.00
Country
United States
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
BTW
Justification of observing law does not allow for failure. Perfect obedience or no justification:

For whoever keeps the whole law yet stumbles at JUST ONE POINT is guilty of breaking all if it
James 2:10

Gal3:10&11 states in effect the same

Absolutely!
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Upvote 0

Mountainmanbob

Goat Whisperer
Site Supporter
Sep 6, 2016
15,961
10,817
73
92040
✟1,096,353.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Just curious.
How many Christians do you know who try and obey each and every literal command of Christ?
In forty years of going to various denominational churches, I have not found any who do so

Well, I have been to several different churches during my lifetime of 66 years and have never attended a church where the ones following Christ do not try to keep every commandment. Sure, we may fall short at times but, one had better get back on the horse of repentance -- fast!

The bible says to examine ourselves so as to be sure that we are in the faith (truly Born Again) ?
It also states that many are fooling themselves.
What did Jesus say to some who thought that they were good to go ? Go away I never knew you.....
Best take it ((all)) very seriously I think.

M-Bob
 
Upvote 0

stuart lawrence

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2015
10,527
1,606
65
✟70,925.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Well, I have been to several different churches during my lifetime of 66 years and have never attended a church where the ones following Christ do not try to keep every commandment. Sure, we may fall short at times but, one had better get back on the horse of repentance -- fast!

The bible says to examine ourselves so as to be sure that we are in the faith (truly Born Again) ?
It also states that many are fooling themselves.
What did Jesus say to some who thought that they were good to go ? Go away I never knew you.....
Best take it ((all)) very seriously I think.

M-Bob
Wow
So in every church you have been to all the members refuse to invite friends and family home for a meal, but rather the poor, lame, blind and beggars?
Everyone in the churches you have been to leaps for joy when they are persecuted?
No one let's anyone else know when they are fasting?
If anyone stole something of theirs, they all gladly offer the thief more than he stole with nothing but love in their hearts as they do so?
All in the churches you have attended they all love those who may malign, persecute, hate or slander them?
I mean this sincerely i am very impressed indeed. I've never found any Church where the members all obeyed those commands, and I've attended various churches for over forty years.
You are right though, we must take Jesus words very seriously. He reserved his harshest words for the religious who did not practice what they preached
 
Upvote 0

stuart lawrence

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2015
10,527
1,606
65
✟70,925.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
ACTS 19 “Jesus I know, and Paul I know about, but who are you? .
If you know Paul, why could you not testify to the fact he didn't preach righteousness/ justification of observing the law?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

claninja

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2017
5,647
2,189
indiana
✟298,336.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Obedience to Christ is not the law.
Sorry not trying to nitpicky, but technically it is. If the 1st command is Mark 12:30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’
And if Christ is God, than genuine obedience to Christ would be following the law. If I tell my wife I love her with words, but never show her through actions, do I really love her?

By no means am I saying that these actions save us. We are only saved through the grace of God by Jesus Christ
 
Upvote 0

Friend-of-Jesus

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2017
647
474
54
Alberta
✟45,031.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Obey or not obey. It seems as though this is the dividing question of many Christians today. For some, the keeping of the law was a burden we bore before Christ saved us but the fact is, we didn't keep the law then either! Why would God want people to obey His commandments in the first place if He was going to do away with them? What purpose do they have? If you knew the future that God has planned for those who love Him you might just understand it better.
When we are resurrected we are going to be like Christ is NOW. What is He like now? He is the all powerful, eternal Son of the Creator God. We are to be heirs WITH Him of all that God has given Him, rulers with Him on His throne. The power of being a child of God is boundless! God will not give this gift to anyone who would refuse to obey Him, think of the damage an eternal being with that kind of power could do! Look at what Satan did, and He's not even close to what we're going to be.
The Laws of God define what sin is, they are our instructors on what to do and what not to do. We must develop Godly character through obedience from our heart! Out of love for God, out of respect for Him. Christ makes our perfection possible by literally LIVING in us, using our bodies and minds to produce works of righteousness, growing in grace, which is undeserved forgiveness when we fall short. Before we had Christ living in us, any obedience we may have mustered was useless. After Christ is living in us all obedience is Christ's spirit doing it which makes it perfect.
If we despise the laws of God and refuse to keep His commands then the Spirit of Christ is not in us.
Romans 8:7-9 because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s Law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.
You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ

You can say that submitting to God is not required all you want but God says those who are hostile to Him refuse to submit to His Law and they are NOT CHRIST'S. HE said if we have His Spirit we will submit, why? Because we understand the reason God wants us to, we understand the enormous responsibility we are going to be given and ONLY those who have learned to LOVE His laws and allowed them to be written on their hearts will be in the Kingdom of God. But know that it cannot be done without the Spirit of Christ living in us. That Spirit is given as a GIFT, it can never be earned. Once we have it we MUST use it. How do we use it? By obeying.

Law is law. Must be obeyed at all times.
 
Upvote 0

stuart lawrence

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2015
10,527
1,606
65
✟70,925.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
If you know Paul, why could you not testify to the fact he didn't preach righteousness/ justification of observing the law?
ACTS 19 “Jesus I know, and Paul I know about, but who are you? .
I think I will have to put you on ignore. Your biggest contribution to this thread appears to be pressing the funny button.
 
Upvote 0

Phantasman

Newbie
May 12, 2012
4,953
226
Tennessee
✟34,626.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Law is law. Must be obeyed at all times.

Make a choice.

Exodus:
Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

Luke:
26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

The way Thomas says it makes more sense.

"Whoever does not hate his father and his mother as I do cannot become a disciple to me. And whoever does not love his father and his mother as I do cannot become a disciple to me."

Born again is the receiving of the new mother and father which is spirit
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Thursday

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2016
6,034
1,562
59
Texas
✟49,429.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
You try to obey each and every literal command of Christ?

How many times have you refused to invite family members home for a meal, so you can instead invite the poor, lame and blind?
How many times have you leapt for joy when you are persecuted?
How many times have you truly in your heart loved your enemies? Those who may slander, malign and hate you
If someone stole something of yours, would you offer them more besides what they stole with nothing but love in your heart for them?

I can carry on if you like. How many times have you striven to obey these Commandments. Remember you say your justification hinges on obeying them


It's not what I say that matters, it's what Jesus said. The road is narrow.
 
Upvote 0