Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath?

[deu58]

Hello Cassie

If God does not change then why did command Noah to eat meat?

Why was the law added? It to was a change,

Why can we not practice Polygamy? This was permitted in the OT but taught against in the NT

Why can't you marry your sister, Cousin or aunt today? this to was lawful at one time. Abraham said of Sarah,

Ge 20:12 And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.

The law states,
Le 20:17 And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.


Why were some nations barred forever from the old covenant but all are welcome in the new?

God himself permitted the destruction of the temple and changed the priest hood,

Even in the OT it is prophesied that a new covenant would come that was not like the old, Another change

You compare Gods law to human offices, You said in one thread that it was not a religion, Yes it was a religion, Paul says it is,

Ac 26:5 Which knew me from the beginning, if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.
Ga 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

Ga 1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.


These are just some examples of the many changes that have been instituted by God,

God has not changed because he see's the beginning from the end, Everything that has happened and will happen has been ordained by God to happen and that is what will not change,

You claim to have come to your conclusions by studying the bible, But to come to these conclusions you have to ignore large portions of what the bible teaches and rather than dividing covenants and dispensations properly you fuse them all together,

Your dog might be good at chess but when it comes to theology he just won't hunt

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Caissie]

If you are in Agreement with Cassie then you must keep all 613 commandments of the law, Not just 10,

I actually somewhat agree with deu58 on this one. If you agree that:

1. Jesus did not come to destroy the law and that one jot or one tittle is not going to pass from the law until heaven and earth pass and all is fulfilled Matthew 5:17-19

2. God does not change
Malachi 3:6

3. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Hebrews 13:8

4. And "for ever" means "for ever"
Exodus 12:14

Exodus 12:17

Exodus 12:24

Exodus 31:17

and so on....

Then you would be trying to keep all the law that applies to you but obviously you are not a Levite Priest, so there goes a huge chunk out of those 613, and the Temple is destroyed, so there is a lot more.....plus you probably do not have leprosy, a flat roof that is used often by people, most of the time you probably do not wear a mixture of linen and wool (I have not seen many fabrics that are a mixture of linen and wool). You are probably not a farmer, or a soldier....there goes at least 20 more of the 613 that does not apply to you. Also, if you are only having sex with your wife....that means your compliant with 23 of the 613 right there. In fact you are probably compliant with just about every law except:

1. Keeping the "high Sabbaths" (annual feast days)
2. Do SDA eat unclean meats?
3. I have also noticed that most people do not have the 10 commandments posted by their door or on their gate. (not sure if you do or not) (yes, I know that the Jews interpret Deut 6:9 a little differently...but I am not apart of the Jewish religion.)

Thank God for Christ!

 

[Cliff2]

. Do SDA eat unclean meats?

No, they do not eat unclean meat.

Now before someone jumps on my back and says that they know an Adventist that eats unclean meat. Let me say that in a Church membership of close to 20,000,000 there may be some that do. I can say that it is not that it is not the done thing to eat unclean meat.

In fact I would say that most Adventists are not even meat eaters at least in the western world.

 

[Caissie]

We're gentiles.

How do you know that you are a physical gentile? Remember, there were 12 tribes. Also, the people over there in Israel right now are the ones that claim to be Jews but do lie (Rev 2:9, Rev 3:9). (They can not trace there genealogy back to Judah). Many European Kings and Queens can trace there genealogy back to Judah....and I bet you thought Queen Elizabeth was a gentile too (but she is from the tribe of Judah).

Plus, how do you know that you are not apart of Israel after you accept Christ as your King?

Also, every nation that will be apart of God's Kingdom will be keeping the law (Zechariah 14:16, Isaiah 66)

Hebrews 8:10 states: For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

The above verse is talking about after Christ comes back.

 

[deu58]

Hi cliff

No, they do not eat unclean meat.

Now before someone jumps on my back and says that they know an Adventist that eats unclean meat. Let me say that in a Church membership of close to 20,000,000 there may be some that do. I can say that it is not that it is not the done thing to eat unclean meat.

In fact I would say that most Adventists are not even meat eaters at least in the western world.

Same here in the Philippines, All the home church SDA are vegetarian, Many in the Main Church eat meat but if there are any that eat unclean meats they are far and few between,

I have not met an SDA yet that eats pork, Just asked the wife she does not know any either,

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Caissie]

If God does not change ....

So I guess you are saying that he does change. Well, that would mean you think he lied in Malachi 3:6 when he says "I change not"

then why did command Noah to eat meat?

because the earth changed. Before the flood they could eat fruits and vegatables year round, and there was plenty of it.

Why was the law added? It to was a change,

This does not mean that God changes.....for instance God in the law God tells Israel to destroy the seed of Amalek (Deut. 25:19) because of what Amalek did to Israel. Adding a law does not mean God changes.

Why can we not practice Polygamy? This was permitted in the OT but taught against in the NT.

It does not say that it is against the law to practice Polygamy.

Why can't you marry your sister, Cousin or aunt today? this to was lawful at one time. Abraham said of Sarah,

Because of genetic problems. Everyone can tell you that if you and your sister have kids, there is going to be some major problems. Since we are copies of copies of copies.......of Adam and Eve, are DNA is not as good as theirs were. (again, it is not God changing, it is man that changed)

Why were some nations barred forever from the old covenant but all are welcome in the new?

Scriptures please

God himself permitted the destruction of the temple and changed the priest hood,

Even in the OT it is prophesied that a new covenant would come that was not like the old, Another change

Again, these two things do not mean that God changes.

You compare Gods law to human offices, You said in one thread that it was not a religion, Yes it was a religion, Paul says it is,

Ac 26:5 Which knew me from the beginning, if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.
Ga 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

Ga 1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

When Paul referrs to the "Jewish religion" he is not referring to the Theocracy that God set up. (Notice he did not say the Israel religion.) Paul is referring to the traditions that the Jews set up (like washing the hands Matthew 15:2). Plus the Jewish religion today has the Talmud, (which is not a part of God's law).

 

[Caissie]

No, they do not eat unclean meat.

Then that means that they are compliant with many more of the 613 (which are the Jewish count) laws.

 

[LivingByFaith]

I've posted this in another question, but how do SDA recognize the fact that in other countries (Mexico comes to mind) the first day of the week is Monday, thus the seventh day of the week is Sunday.

 

[deu58]

Hi Cassie

How do you know that you are a physical gentile? Remember, there were 12 tribes. Also, the people over there in Israel right now are the ones that claim to be Jews but do lie (Rev 2:9, Rev 3:9). (They can not trace there genealogy back to Judah). Many European Kings and Queens can trace there genealogy back to Judah....and I bet you thought Queen Elizabeth was a gentile too (but she is from the tribe of Judah).

Are you a member of the Aryan Nations? This is part of their anti semitic doctrine. Considering all the genealogical records of the Jews were destroyed with temple, Something else pre ordained by God, How are these people {Kings and Queens} supposed to be able to prove their tribal linage?

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Cliff2]

I've posted this in another question, but how do SDA recognize the fact that in other countries (Mexico comes to mind) the first day of the week is Monday, thus the seventh day of the week is Sunday.

No doubt it becomes a problem for keeping the true Sabbath.

The true 7th day is still Saturday. They would keep Saturday there even though some would call it the 6th day.

I would be interested to know what the RCC does at Easter time. I am sure they would not say that Christ rose on Monday.

 

[deu58]

So I guess you are saying that he does change. Well, that would mean you think he lied in Malachi 3:6 when he says "I change not"

I Clarified that later in the post, I guess you missed it so here it is again,

God has not changed because he sea's the beginning from the end, Everything that has happened and will happen has been ordained by God to happen and that is what will not change,

because the earth changed. Before the flood they could eat fruits and vegetables year round, and there was plenty of it.

So you do not think that God could have provided 8 people with vegetables? You do not think that if God so choose that he could not have restored fruit bearing trees, Herbs and vegetables for them to eat?

Ex 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.

De 29:5 And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.

1ki 17:4 And it shall be, that thou shalt drink of the brook; and I have commanded the ravens to feed thee there.

1ki 17:5 So he went and did according unto the word of the LORD: for he went and dwelt by the brook Cherith, that is before Jordan.

1ki 17:6 And the ravens brought him bread and flesh in the morning, and bread and flesh in the evening; and he drank of the brook


1ki 17:14 For thus saith the LORD God of Israel, The barrel of meal shall not waste, neither shall the cruse of oil fail, until the day that the LORD sendeth rain upon the earth.

1ki 17:15 And she went and did according to the saying of Elijah: and she, and he, and her house, did eat many days.

1ki 17:16 And the barrel of meal wasted not, neither did the cruse of oil fail, according to the word of the LORD, which he spake by Elijah.

Mt 15:34 And Jesus saith unto them, How many loaves have ye? And they said, Seven, and a few little fishes.

Mt 15:35 And he commanded the multitude to sit down on the ground.

Mt 15:36 And he took the seven loaves and the fishes, and gave thanks, and brake them, and gave to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude.

Mt 15:37 And they did all eat, and were filled: and they took up of the broken meat that was left seven baskets full.

Mt 15:38 And they that did eat were four thousand men, beside women and children.

Your reasoning falls flat when compared to the testimony of Scripture

This does not mean that God changes.....for instance God in the law God tells Israel to destroy the seed of Amalek (Deut. 25:19) because of what Amalek did to Israel. Adding a law does not mean God changes.

I agree that God does not change, But God can and does add to and take away from the law as he sea's fit to do, It all in accordance with the plan that he devised before the Earth was even created, It is you that have said something can not be because it does not fit your parameters of what fulfilled means. Even though we know from the New Testament that changes most definitely have been made to the law,

It does not say that it is against the law to practice Polygamy.

1ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

1ti 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

It is Paul who established the rule of one wife in the church, His instructions supersede the Commandments of multiple wives, The Levitical priests were under no such restrictions,

Because of genetic problems. Everyone can tell you that if you and your sister have kids, there is going to be some major problems. Since we are copies of copies of copies.......of Adam and Eve, are DNA is not as good as theirs were. (again, it is not God changing, it is man that changed)

You are simply stating your own opinion here with out scriptural support, Abraham married his half sister and God called him a righteous man. In the Law of Moses God forbids such marriages,

Scriptures please

De 23:1 He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

De 23:2 A ******* shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

De 23:3 An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever:

Again, these two things do not mean that God changes.

No, But it definitely shows that the law has changed, There is no way around that one,

When Paul referrs to the "Jewish religion" he is not referring to the Theocracy that God set up. (Notice he did not say the Israel religion.) Paul is referring to the traditions that the Jews set up (like washing the hands Matthew 15:2). Plus the Jewish religion today has the Talmud, (which is not a part of God's law).

Again you use the Christian definition of the law, Paul was Jewish and he understood the law as a Jew, You seem to accept the Messianic idea that Christ went to the cross to free us form the oral torah, A mans law that never held any authority in the eyes of God in the first place,

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Caissie]

So you do not think that God could have provided 8 people with vegetables? You do not think that if God so choose that he could not have restored fruit bearing trees, Herbs and vegetables for them to eat?

Your reasoning falls flat when compared to the testimony of Scripture

You are assuming to much. I never said that God couldn't do this. I believe that the world was different before the flood. I believe the earth did not have a tilt or a wobble before the flood. This would make it springtime year round where you could grow year round. Now we have a winter season, where we can not grow food. This would make it necessary for us to eat animals. God could do what ever he pleases, but it was mans sin that brought this destruction in the first place.

1ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

1ti 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

It is Paul who established the rule of one wife in the church, His instructions supersede the Commandments of multiple wives, The Levitical priests were under no such restrictions,

Levitical Priests are not the same as bishops and deacons. Again, no change in a law.

De 23:1 He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

De 23:2 A ******* shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.



De 23:3 An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever:

Again, show me where the change of the law is.

No, But it definitely shows that the law has changed, There is no way around that one,

Because God allowed the destruction of the temple does not change a law. Just as your city court house burning down changes no law either. Yes, they might lose tax records, and it might be hectic for a bit, but no law has changed.

The new covenant is not here yet in its entirety. So, no law has changed yet.

Hebrews 8:6-13
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

If this covenant is already here, then every man would know God and we wouldn't need to witness.

(it looks like I "got around that one")

You seem to accept the Messianic idea that Christ went to the cross to free us form the oral torah, A mans law that never held any authority in the eyes of God in the first place,

I do not know where you are getting these ideas from. Jesus did not free us from the oral torah because we were never bound by the oral torah. Where did I say anything about an oral torah (what I believe to be mans traditions)?

 

[Caissie]

Are you a member of the Aryan Nations?

No

This is part of their anti semitic doctrine.

And??? They might have voted for Bush last election too, so if someone votes for Bush, does that make them a part of the Aryan Nations? What if the Aryan Nations believe that Christ is the Son of God? Would you then discount the fact because this group believes this?

I have not studied the Aryan Nations, but if they have done their research and found out that most of physical decedents of Israel today are Europeans
then their research is correct.

How are these people {Kings and Queens} supposed to be able to prove their tribal linage?

Are you serious? These are Kings and queens. Can’t we use historical records to find out every single past President of the U.S.?

http://www.kingdavid.org/genealogy.html

http://www.eternalthroneofdavid.com/genealogy.htm

 

[deu58]

Hi Cassie

You are assuming to much. I never said that God couldn't do this. I believe that the world was different before the flood. I believe the earth did not have a tilt or a wobble before the flood. This would make it springtime year round where you could grow year round. Now we have a winter season, where we can not grow food. This would make it necessary for us to eat animals. God could do what ever he pleases, but it was mans sin that brought this destruction in the first place.

There are people who are vegetarian all year round, The Essenes lived in the deserts and were vegetarians, I agree with your view as to how things were before the flood, But you original reasoning as to why God commanded Noah and his descendants to eat meat is with out any merit,

Levitical Priests are not the same as bishops and deacons. Again, no change in a law.

The change in the law is God no longer recognizes the Levitical priesthood as legitament,

Again, show me where the change of the law is.

So you do not believe that Eunuchs can be saved today?

Ac 8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

Ac 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

Ac 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

Ac 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

You do not believe a fatherless child can be saved or any modern day descendants of the Ammonites and Moabites???

Because God allowed the destruction of the temple does not change a law. Just as your city court house burning down changes no law either. Yes, they might lose tax records, and it might be hectic for a bit, but no law has changed.

The new covenant is not here yet in its entirety. So, no law has changed yet.

If this covenant is already here, then every man would know God and we wouldn't need to witness.

(it looks like I "got around that one")

Actually no you haven't, The covenant is established between the believer and God, There will be unbelievers right up to the time that Jesus returns and even after,

Re 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Re 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Re 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The 1000 year rule ends in sin and rejection of Christ's right to rule even though he is physically present with us on earth

I do not know where you are getting these ideas from. Jesus did not free us from the oral torah because we were never bound by the oral torah. Where did I say anything about an oral torah (what I believe to be mans traditions)?

Then just what is it that you believe happened at the cross?

Ga 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

Ga 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Ga 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Ga 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Ga 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Ga 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Ga 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Ga 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Ga 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Ga 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


Paul says Agar is Mount Sinai, That is where Moses received the tablets of the old Covenant, He plainly says that Agar has been cast out past tense, Not she will be future tense

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Cliff2]

It has been amusing to me, here in the United States, regarding all the recent concern that Christian judges, churches, and organizations have regarding the removal of various historic monuments of the Ten Commandments in public places, like court houses, capital buildings, parks, etc., etc., while the majority of Christians in favor of the their not being removed are not keeping the 4th Commandment [7th day Sabbath]. The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), could easily point out this inconsistency to the embarassment of those Christians calling for the Ten Commandments to not be removed on the grounds that their visibility in public places will discourage lawlessness, while the very same Christians are being "lawless" by breaking the 4th Commandment.

Agree!

 

[Yusuf Evans]

I don't quite remember Christ keeping the Sabbath when he walked the earth preaching the gospel, or maybe my knowledge is a little rusty

 

[cygnusx1]

Lawkeepers hey ?

Let me just tell you not one poster here has ever or will ever KEEP THE LAW!!!

 

[jochanaan]

I don't quite remember Christ keeping the Sabbath when he walked the earth preaching the gospel, or maybe my knowledge is a little rusty

"And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read." (Luke 4:16, emphasis mine) Yes, He removed from the Sabbath many restrictive traditions that were not part of the original Levitical laws; but He upheld the law itself. "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets..." (Matthew 5:17)

 

[Dragons87]

Sabbath: a rest day and a holy day kept aside for God every six days. Let's count.

We work Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and some of us, half day on Saturday. Six days? And then? Sunday, which the vast majority of us stop working and go to church and enjoy fellowship with the Lord and with fellow Siblings.

In which way has the true meaning of Sabbath been reversed?

 

[BrightCandle]

Sabbath: a rest day and a holy day kept aside for God every six days. Let's count.

We work Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and some of us, half day on Saturday. Six days? And then? Sunday, which the vast majority of us stop working and go to church and enjoy fellowship with the Lord and with fellow Siblings.

In which way has the true meaning of Sabbath been reversed?

Here is the text of the Sabbath Commandment:

Exodus 20:8-11 (ESV)


"8Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

Why would you want to try and change the commandment to fit your preferences? God wants us to conform our will to His will, not vice versa!