Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath?

Celticflower · Apr 15, 2005

Linux98 said:
. If a SDA feels he must observe the Sabbath on Saturday to be obedient to the word of God I think that is perfectly fine.

I agree but would add--It is perfectly fine as long as he does not condemn those who do not feel the need to observe the Sabbath on Saturday. Just because someone has a different view or interpretation of scripture does not make them wrong.

Celtie

Leimeng · Apr 15, 2005

sparklz said:
sorry... my mistake. I thought you said you didn't see anything about not working.
Let me make one thing clear. I think you should worship God everyday, but God specifically asks us to keep the 7th day Holy. When He say's to keep it Holy, I think of it as only doing things that are toward God. (In praise of Him) So I set aside the 7th day for Him and Him only. (Friday sundown to Saturday sundown)

~ If we are required by law to keep the Sabbath day holy, does it hold then that the other days of the week are unholy?
~ Everyday was created by the Lord. We should endeavor to make every day a day of holiness and worship before GOD.
~ The continual idolatry of one day over another is sin and in clear violation of God's Word.
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)

Cliff2 · Apr 15, 2005

Leimeng said:
~ If we are required by law to keep the Sabbath day holy, does it hold then that the other days of the week are unholy?
~ Everyday was created by the Lord. We should endeavor to make every day a day of holiness and worship before GOD.
~ The continual idolatry of one day over another is sin and in clear violation of God's Word.
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)

You have hit the nail on the head by asking your fiest question.

God has never made another day holy. Just by going to church on a set day does not make it holy. Only a holy God can make a day holy.

The continual idolatry of one day over another is sin and in clear violation of God's Word.

Correct, but then by trying to make a day holy that God never made holy is just as bad. A day in and of itself will never amount to saing anyone, even if it is the 7th day of the week.

That does not mean we should cease to keep the 7th day holy, all it means is that just because I go to Church on the 7th day will not earn me salvation. That is given to us by God through the death of His Son on the cross.

Linux98 · Apr 15, 2005

Celticflower said:
I agree but would add--It is perfectly fine as long as he does not condemn those who do not feel the need to observe the Sabbath on Saturday. Just because someone has a different view or interpretation of scripture does not make them wrong.

I agree, to condemn another Christian over this issue on either side is bad.

* Ultimately, Sunday type Christians want SDA Christians to be free from the law.

* Ultimately, SDA Christians want Sunday Christians to act in obedience to God.

Neither of these ideas needs to be a cause of condemnation. A Christian is free from the law. And because he is free he should conduct himself in obedience to God.

BrightCandle · Apr 15, 2005

BInC said:
Why worry about the ten commandments if you aren't observing the sabbath? If I murder somone, that hurts them. The only person I might hurt by not observing the sabbath is myself.

You hurt Jesus who said "Remember the Sabbath to keep it holy", and He also said: "If you love me you will keep my commandments"

BrightCandle · Apr 15, 2005

Celticflower said:
I agree but would add--It is perfectly fine as long as he does not condemn those who do not feel the need to observe the Sabbath on Saturday. Just because someone has a different view or interpretation of scripture does not make them wrong.

Celtie

The Ten Commandments were written by the finger of God in a most simple and understandable way, a twelve year old child can understand what day is the Sabbath, and then make a moral decision to obey it, like he or she would obey any other commandment. Additionally, the Ten Commandments were written in such a way by God that we are fooling ourselves if we think that there are several ways to interpret them. Murder is murder, adultery is adultery, stealing is stealing, etc. ect., the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin. You will know what is right if you really want to do Jesus' will. You can't get much more direct than what Jesus said when he said "the seventh day is the Sabbath."

BrightCandle · Apr 15, 2005

12volt_man said:
I think the problem here is that there's some confusion about exactly what the Sabbath is for the Christian.

The Saturday Sabbath was only meant to be a type of Christ, pointing the way to the rest we find in Christ, not some legal chain around our ankle.

Now that Christ has come, He is our Sabbath.

If all the Ten Commandments were written by God's own finger in stone, and almost all Christian sects believe they are valid moral laws for all time and for all Christians, why would the Sabbath be only for the Jews? Wouldn't it make sense then that the other nine commandments would be only for Jews as well?

BrightCandle · Apr 15, 2005

JAL said:
What's amusing to me is people who assume that the human intellect can properly extrapolate the proper application of 3000-year old laws to modern society. Even Moses had to ask God for clarification of the law, because the only way to be entirely sure how God wants it applied today is to hear His voice (Jn 10:27), also known as "be led by the Spirit" (Gal 5). You'll note that the original ten commandments were God's voice (Ex 20:1). You speak here of inconsistency. Do you still practice every command given in the Bible? Sacrifice any animals lately? But you seem to suggest that publicly honoring the 10 commandments is an inconsistency for those who hold to a modern application such as Sunday. That's like saying we should no longer permit Bibles in public unless we obey every single command to the letter, including animal sacrifices. Whose side are you on, anyway? The ACLU?

Both Catholics and the majority of Protestant denominations recognize the difference between the moral law (i.e. Ten Commandments) and the other laws of Moses. Even a person of low intelligence can understand the Ten Commandments. What causes complexity is when individuals decide they don't want to do just what the Ten Commandments say then all kinds of complicated arguments are brought to bear to cast doubt upon their morally binding claims. The laws of Moses written on paper by Moses, the Ten Commandments were written in stone by God himself. That is the difference my friend.

BrightCandle · Apr 15, 2005

Linux98 said:
I agree, to condemn another Christian over this issue on either side is bad.

* Ultimately, Sunday type Christians want SDA Christians to be free from the law.

* Ultimately, SDA Christians want Sunday Christians to act in obedience to God.

Neither of these ideas needs to be a cause of condemnation. A Christian is free from the law. And because he is free he should conduct himself in obedience to God.

Is a Christian free to sin? I don't think so. The Bible's definition of sin is "lawlessness". And the fact that the Sabbath Commandment is part of God's law, then breaking it is sin. A Christian is different from a carnal unsaved person is that the Holy Spirit keeps him from sinning, by causing his life to be in obediance to God's law, including the Sabbath.

BrightCandle · Apr 15, 2005

JustinWindsor said:
12 Volt Man in post #23 above has it exactly right. The Sabbath keeping was Old Covenant. Specifically the Sabbath commands were a 'shadow' or 'type', in other words they foreshadowed the rest that the believer would have in Christ. That is, specifically, rest from works of the Law. (See Hebrews 4 in any version except KJV where a name is incorrect. NKJV has it right.)

May God Bless

The Sabbath was instituted in the garden of Eden before mankind sinned. What was it a shadow of at that time? All "shadow" like ceremonies were instituted after mankind sinned. Additionally, are the other Ten Commandments "shadows"? No they are not, they are moral laws. The Sabbath is a moral law regarding our relationship to God himself, that is why it is grouped with the first four commandments, that deal with moral laws relating to us and to God. The last six deal with other human to human moral laws.

BrightCandle · Apr 15, 2005

Celticflower said:
What I find amusing is the fact that BrightCandle and Cliff seem to be nothing more than one trick ponies. Mulitple threads started by these guys and added to by others all have the same m--that those of us who do not observe the Jewish Sabbath of the 7th Day are doomed to hell for breaking one of the original commandments. Sooner or later the blame will be laid at the feet of the RCC and another round of Catholic bashing will ensue. Puh-leese!! Enough already! Maybe you should look to the words of Christ on what commandments we truly need to be concerned with.

Jesus is the Word, and He is the One who wrote the Ten Commandments, not Moses. It is the only one of the Ten Commandments that Jesus said to "Remember", don't you think that He knew with His knowledge of the future that most everyone on this planet would forget it? As a Christian, you should be concerned if an attempt has been made to change God's law. Who do you think would be behind an attempt to get the masses of mankind, including the majority of professing Christians, to be breaking God's holy law?

drewbiez · Apr 16, 2005

I agree with you, the original poster...sorry I lost your name in the reading and I'm new here but anyways, I had almost the same discussion with a former pastor and he tried to bring up the old laws and ask if I thought I needed to be stoned for doing this or that...but that wasn't my point..my point was why don't we follow ALL of the commandments and why is it most times when you see number 4 somewhere they've shortened it to just "keep the sabbath holy" ......people don't even do that much less keep the saturday sabbath!!

I asked this pastor...can I cheat on my husband? he of course said no...and I said, well if you are telling me that I don't have to keep a sabbath as God commanded in his 10 commandments then you are telling me that I can also be unfaithful, steal, and murder because these rules no longer apply to me.

Then he took the "saved by grace" route. I'm sorry but saved by grace dosen't mean you can pick and choose what rules of God's you want to apply to your life.

I believe the 10....all 10 commandments still apply to us. I also believe this is why the 4th commandment starts as "remember the sabbath" Jesus himself kept a sabbath as well as his followers after him.

sorry guys....this is a hot subject for me....we commonly have this discussion around our house!!!

Light and Love

Brandy

Cliff2 · Apr 16, 2005

drewbiez said:
I agree with you, the original poster...sorry I lost your name in the reading and I'm new here but anyways, I had almost the same discussion with a former pastor and he tried to bring up the old laws and ask if I thought I needed to be stoned for doing this or that...but that wasn't my point..my point was why don't we follow ALL of the commandments and why is it most times when you see number 4 somewhere they've shortened it to just "keep the sabbath holy" ......people don't even do that much less keep the saturday sabbath!!

I asked this pastor...can I cheat on my husband? he of course said no...and I said, well if you are telling me that I don't have to keep a sabbath as God commanded in his 10 commandments then you are telling me that I can also be unfaithful, steal, and murder because these rules no longer apply to me.

Then he took the "saved by grace" route. I'm sorry but saved by grace dosen't mean you can pick and choose what rules of God's you want to apply to your life.

I believe the 10....all 10 commandments still apply to us. I also believe this is why the 4th commandment starts as "remember the sabbath" Jesus himself kept a sabbath as well as his followers after him.

sorry guys....this is a hot subject for me....we commonly have this discussion around our house!!!

Light and Love

Brandy

I have to agree

Cliff2 · Apr 16, 2005

The one commandment God said to "Remember" is the one most people want to forget.

Is that telling us something about the way humans generally think?

JustinWindsor · Apr 16, 2005

The Ten Commandments, as a system of standard or rule, and in particular the Sabbath was commanded to the Israelite nation with the Mosaic (Sinaiic) Covenant. It was expressly given to the Hebrew children as a sign of the Old Covenant. (Ex 31:16,17 - Ezekiel 20:12 - Deut 4:5)

BrightCandle said:
The Sabbath was instituted in the garden of Eden before mankind sinned. What was it a shadow of at that time? All "shadow" like ceremonies were instituted after mankind sinned. Additionally, are the other Ten Commandments "shadows"? No they are not, they are moral laws. The Sabbath is a moral law regarding our relationship to God himself, that is why it is grouped with the first four commandments, that deal with moral laws relating to us and to God. The last six deal with other human to human moral laws.

holo · Apr 16, 2005

The thing is, you can choose to live according to Spirit or according to law. Paul doesn't appear to make any particular distinction between the "Mosaic law" and the ten commandments or specific dietary regulations or whatever.

However you do it, do it with a pure heart, for God.

Personally, I've gotten badly burned by living like Paul warns against - by trying to observe the law. "All those who are under law are under a curse" certainly rings true in my life.

It's not like the Spirit of God Himself does such a poor job of guiding you that you need to rely on some external law in addition.
Chill out.

Linux98 · Apr 16, 2005

drewbiez,

"Saved by Grace" is not a good answer to your question about the 4th. Tell your pastor why you want to observe the Sabbath. That way he can see that you are doing it to please God, which is sanctification not salvation. Next time you talk to him about it just let him know you don't think you are saved by obedience to the law; you are just trying to live by the word of God and this is what you feel God wants you to do. That will help you both understand one another better. That way he won't be concerned you are losing sight of what salvation is all about.

Celticflower · Apr 16, 2005

Mark 12:29-3129 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these

Caissie · Apr 16, 2005

Celticflower said:
Mark 12:29-3129 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these

I do not think that this tread was debating about which commandment is the greater one....it is about the sabbath.

Remember.....the question you are referring to in Mark was which commandment was the greatest.....and Jesus told them the top 2.

There are many commandments that "hang" on each other, for instance there is a law saying "thou shalt not steal", but then there are many subcategories that hang on "thou shalt not steal" like if a person stole something and sold it verses if someone stole something and it was still found in their possession.

"On these two commandments" (The first one Jesus quoted from Deuteronomy 6:4-5, and the second one came from Leviticus 19:18) "hang all the law and the prophets" Matthew 22:40

Remember the sabbath "hangs" on "thou shalt love the Lord thy God"

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

God told us to keep the sabbath for ever....I think he meant to keep it for ever.

Jesus told us that one jot would not pass from the law until after heaven and earth pass. I think he meant that not one jot would pass from the law until heaven and earth pass.

holo · Apr 16, 2005

He said the law and the prophets testified of Him, and that not a jot of it should pass before it had all been fulfilled. Then a little later He said "it is finished." And after that again, Paul said Jesus abolished the law on the cross.
God's will doesn't change, but the law was "added because of transgression". It's job is to condemn us and show us sin, it's not a blueprint of God's will.
We are not under law but under grace, led by the Spirit and not the letter.
The law might be good and just, but it has never blessed anyone, and it doesn't change your position before God.

Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath?

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