Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath?

[BrightCandle]

How does worshipping God on Sunday break the Sabbath? Do you envision Jesus getting offended when his people sing praises to him in worship service and fellowship with one another in his name just because it is Sunday?

Furthermore, the Christian observes the Sabbath everyday by living by the work of Christ. Now if you heard a Christian say: I'm doing good works to earn my salvation...then you could say that Christian was breaking the Sabbath.

Please post the fourth commandment/s that are listed in your Bible version. Thanks.

Worshipping on the Sunday doesn't break the Sabbath, but not worshipping God, and ceasing from secluar work on the 7th day does. The Sabbath is a commandment that tests our profession, do we say we love God, and then ignore what He asks us do? That is what is sometimes called a "testing truth". Tithe paying is another one.

Copied below is the how the NASB translates Exodus 20: 8-11. The NASB is considered the most literal of the English translations. Note where is clearly states the 7th day is the Sabbath, not the 1st. God had a reason for saying this, just like He had a good reasonf for the wording of all of the other 10 Commandments.

*8"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy."

*9"Six days you shall labor and do all your work,

*10 "but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you."

*11 "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

 

[Linux98]

Hmmm...when you put it that way, I may stop working on Saturdays. But I can't start working on Sundays because of church. Maybe I was meant to be limited to a 5 day work week.

 

[12volt_man]

What I'm making a case for is trying to show the inconsistency of those who claim to have great regard for the Ten Commandments, even willing to publically protest and go to jail if need be to keep them in place at civil and historical locations in the USA, yet at that the same time they for the most part, refuse to keep the 4th Commandment, that is an integral part of the 10 Commandments.

I think the problem here is that there's some confusion about exactly what the Sabbath is for the Christian.

The Saturday Sabbath was only meant to be a type of Christ, pointing the way to the rest we find in Christ, not some legal chain around our ankle.

Now that Christ has come, He is our Sabbath.

 

[JAL]

It has been amusing to me, here in the United States, regarding all the recent concern that Christian judges, churches, and organizations have regarding the removal of various historic monuments of the Ten Commandments in public places, like court houses, capital buildings, parks, etc., etc., while the majority of Christians in favor of the their not being removed are not keeping the 4th Commandment [7th day Sabbath]. The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), could easily point out this inconsistency to the embarassment of those Christians calling for the Ten Commandments to not be removed on the grounds that their visibility in public places will discourage lawlessness, while the very same Christians are being "lawless" by breaking the 4th Commandment.

What's amusing to me is people who assume that the human intellect can properly extrapolate the proper application of 3000-year old laws to modern society. Even Moses had to ask God for clarification of the law, because the only way to be entirely sure how God wants it applied today is to hear His voice (Jn 10:27), also known as "be led by the Spirit" (Gal 5). You'll note that the original ten commandments were God's voice (Ex 20:1). You speak here of inconsistency. Do you still practice every command given in the Bible? Sacrifice any animals lately? But you seem to suggest that publicly honoring the 10 commandments is an inconsistency for those who hold to a modern application such as Sunday. That's like saying we should no longer permit Bibles in public unless we obey every single command to the letter, including animal sacrifices. Whose side are you on, anyway? The ACLU?

 

[JustinWindsor]

12 Volt Man in post #23 above has it exactly right. The Sabbath keeping was Old Covenant. Specifically the Sabbath commands were a 'shadow' or 'type', in other words they foreshadowed the rest that the believer would have in Christ. That is, specifically, rest from works of the Law. (See Hebrews 4 in any version except KJV where a name is incorrect. NKJV has it right.)

May God Bless

 

[Celticflower]

It has been amusing to me, here in the United States, regarding all the recent concern that Christian judges, churches, and organizations have regarding the removal of various historic monuments of the Ten Commandments in public places, like court houses, capital buildings, parks, etc., etc., while the majority of Christians in favor of the their not being removed are not keeping the 4th Commandment [7th day Sabbath]. The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), could easily point out this inconsistency to the embarassment of those Christians calling for the Ten Commandments to not be removed on the grounds that their visibility in public places will discourage lawlessness, while the very same Christians are being "lawless" by breaking the 4th Commandment.

What I find amusing is the fact that BrightCandle and Cliff seem to be nothing more than one trick ponies. Mulitple threads started by these guys and added to by others all have the same message--that those of us who do not observe the Jewish Sabbath of the 7th Day are doomed to hell for breaking one of the original commandments. Sooner or later the blame will be laid at the feet of the RCC and another round of Catholic bashing will ensue. Puh-leese!! Enough already! Maybe you should look to the words of Christ on what commandments we truly need to be concerned with.

 

[Peter]

The 1st Century Church was observing Sunday worship as early as 90 AD (Almost a full decade before 1,2,3 John, John's Gospel and Revelation were written). We know this from the historical writings, specificly the Didache.

In addition, Justin Martyr writes the following:

"And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place , and the memoirs of the apostles are read, as long as time permits...then we all rise together and pray...and when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought..and there is distribution to each."
First Apology of Justin Martyr (100-165)

What those outside the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church have been missing here is the Sabbath has always been revered as holy. Rather than leaning not unto their own understanding, they have foolishly assumed that the Church stopped recognizing the Sabbath in favor of the Lord's Day. This is not the case.

Sunday became the day of Christian worship about 250 years BEFORE Constantine, but Saturday never lost its place as Sabbath. The two are not the same thing.

Both sides presented here have not quoted one single shred of historical documentation to support their claim. Just opinion (whose Greek root is where we get the word heresy).

I just finished teaching a unit in Church History on this very subject today.

For a brief overview of Sabbath/Lord's Day debate, I suggest the pamphlet by Matthew Gallatin entitled, "Why We Worship On Sunday." It's printed by Conciliar Press. (Matthew is a former Seventh Day Adventist)

Peace.

Rdr. Peter

 

[Linux98]

Both sides presented here have not quoted one single shred of historical documentation to support their claim. Just opinion (whose Greek root is where we get the word heresy).

Someone quoted the Bible. Does that count as historical documentation?

 

[cliff3]

What I find amusing is the fact that BrightCandle and Cliff seem to be nothing more than one trick ponies. Mulitple threads started by these guys and added to by others all have the same message--that those of us who do not observe the Jewish Sabbath of the 7th Day are doomed to hell for breaking one of the original commandments. Sooner or later the blame will be laid at the feet of the RCC and another round of Catholic bashing will ensue. Puh-leese!! Enough already! Maybe you should look to the words of Christ on what commandments we truly need to be concerned with.

I do not agree with what you say here as this is not about bashing the RCC at all. If one is true and honest with themselves it has to be admitted that there is no support for Sunday as teh Sabbath in the Bible.

Jesus did not bring it in, Paul did not support it, nor did any of the Apostles. The Bible says many times that they gathered together on the Sabbath. That was the 7th day.

If we are not going to support all the commandments then how can we support any of them at all?

 

[Oblio]

The Bible says many times that they gathered together on the Sabbath.

to preach to the Jews in their synagogue, who were gathered on Saturday. If they were preaching to Muslims (yes, I know it would be another 700 years) it would have been Friday in the Mosques. What does that prove ? That they went to where the potential converts would be, when they would be there ! If they went there on Sunday, there would be no one to listen to them If they went to the mosques on Friday to preach to Muslims, would that also mean that we should worship on Friday ??

 

[cliff3]

to preach to the Jews in their synagogue, who were gathered on Saturday. If they were preaching to Muslims (yes, I know it would be another 700 years) it would have been Friday in the Mosques. What does that prove ? That they went to where the potential converts would be, when they would be there ! If they went there on Sunday, there would be no one to listen to them If they went to the mosques on Friday to preach to Muslims, would that also mean that we should worship on Friday ??

Acts 13:44
On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord.

Almost the whole city is far more than the Jews.

There is no record of Paul or anyone else preaching on the 1st day of the week

 

[BInC]

Why worry about the ten commandments if you aren't observing the sabbath? If I murder somone, that hurts them. The only person I might hurt by not observing the sabbath is myself.

 

[JAL]

Acts 13:44
On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord. Almost the whole city is far more than the Jews.

But the earlier response to this argument applies here too. Paul was preaching to the Jews, and to reach them he went to the synagogues on the day of Jewish gathering (the Sabbath). The Gentiles decided they wanted to hear Paul speak, so naturally they showed up on the same day. Therefore I don't see how this passage proves your point.

 

[cliff3]

But the earlier response to this argument applies here too. Paul was preaching to the Jews, and to reach them he went to the synagogues on the day of Jewish gathering (the Sabbath). The Gentiles decided they wanted to hear Paul speak, so naturally they showed up on the same day. Therefore I don't see how this passage proves your point.

Well it means that the Gentiles went to the synagogue on the Sabbath and not the first day of the week.

 

[Linux98]

Well it means that the Gentiles went to the synagogue on the Sabbath and not the first day of the week.

The 4th commandment BrightCandle posted said nothing about which day you should preach on. It specifically said you should do no work on the Sabbath; it did not address the day you should conduct corporate worship. Why are you twisting it to say you must have church on Saturday or you are breaking the 4th?

 

[Oblio]

The Gentiles decided they wanted to hear Paul speak, so naturally they showed up on the same day. Therefore I don't see how this passage proves your point.

Exactly. Paul would have to be there, converting the Jews, in order to hear him.

 

[holo]

It is not matter of trusting or not trusting, it is simply obeying Jesus; own words: "If you love me, keep my commandments."; instead of doing your thing.

Ah, but Jesus said a lot of things, like to gouge out your eye if it led you sin, and bless those you hate you and that if you call your brother a fool, you're guilty of hell. I, for one, won't be too worried about the sabbath as long as I break basically all the rules Jesus laid down. Jesus summed it up like this, "be perfect as your Father is perfect." To make it real simple, He gave two new(!) commandments - love God and love your neighbour.

Are we so good at loving each other that we can now take a break to argue about the law?

You who insist on keeping the 4th and the rest of the commandments and living according to law, is it because you love God so much?

 

[sparklz]

Please show me in the Bible where God changed His mind about something. I thought that His answer was always final. The Ten Commandments were engraved in stone! I don't think God would change them. Also notice He said Remember to keep the Sabbath day Holy. He already knew that people would "forget" this commandment, but keep the other nine. Some people are saying that the Sabbath was only made for Jews. I've gone through the Bible and can't find anything that says it was made only for Jews. I thought it was made for man. Please show me where this is. If anyone here can show me a verse in the Bible where God Himself changed the Sabbath to Sunday, then I will gladly start worshipping on Sunday, but I know no one will ever be able to prove this to me. God made it so clear, as to what day He wanted us to keep, as His day, and I don't know why people can't just accept that the day is Saturday not Sunday.

God Bless,
sparklz

 

[Linux98]

If anyone here can show me a verse in the Bible where God Himself changed the Sabbath to Sunday, then I will gladly start worshipping on Sunday

From what I read the 4th commandment says you should not work on Saturday. I didn't see it say anything about the day you are supposed to worship.

For example, I like going to church on Wednesday and Sunday. I worship 2 days a week. I doubt Jesus is dissapointed in that.

 

[sparklz]

From what I read the 4th commandment says you should not work on Saturday. I didn't see it say anything about the day you are supposed to worship.

For example, I like going to church on Wednesday and Sunday. I worship 2 days a week. I doubt Jesus is dissapointed in that.

If you read the whole 4th commandment it says:
Exodus 20:8-10, NIV. "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates."

It says remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy - I don't think you're keeping it Holy by working. Then it says Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is Sabbath...where you shall not do any work. So it clearly says you shouldn't work on the Sabbath.