Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath?

[deu58]

Hi Cliff

This is what the thread is about. If you want to go outside of the topic then I suggest you start a new thread.

How have I gone outside the thread?? I rebutted your post??? Every thing we are discussing is related to the SDA sabbtath position, Here is the main subject you posted you posted.

Do prophets make mistakes?

Sure do, look at Nathan.
2 Samuel 7:3
Nathan replied to the king, "Whatever you have in mind, go ahead and do it, for the LORD is with you."

Then Nathan had to come and tell david he was not to build the temple.

David was a prophet and made many mistakes.

If we were as hard on David and many of the Old Testament prophets as we are on modern day prophets we would get rid of many passages in the Bible.

here is my reply

Nathan made the mistake of speaking before he consulted the Lord, The types of mistakes we see in the lives of the OT prophets were mistakes of the flesh not errors in their prophecies, Big difference there,

De 18:22 when a prophet speaketh in the name of Jehovah, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which Jehovah hath not spoken: the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be afraid of him.

we have no reason to fear the visions, dreams, prophecies or judgments of your prophetess, Jean Dixon has a better track record than Ellen White,

You did mention modern prophets plural, You seem to of a mind that we should not test the words of a prophet

1jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but prove the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world.



Now cliff, You have called me a liar, I am not offended but I would like to see your Biblical proof to this question I posted earlier, If I am a liar then you should be able to prove this vision is accurate and scriptural concerning a change regarding the Sabbath in 1844,

I am lying then it is very easy to disprove what I have said, All you have to do is show from the bible that the Sabbath became a test for all true believers in 1844, And then explain from the Word of God why it was not a test for any Christian believer before 1844, why was it ok to worship on Sunday before 1844 but not after????? Start a thread on it and let me know what forum it is in because I do not think that you can start a thread like that in the Christians only section, Start it and I will be there,

yours in Christ
deu58

I do not really think I have left the topic any more than you have, I think you are using a delaying tactic to avoid answering certain questions,

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[GypsyBella]

I realize that I'm nothing more than a referee here (still new to some of this stuff...), but would it help if I just went ahead and started a new thread?

 

[deu58]

Hi Gypsy Bella

I realize that I'm nothing more than a referee here (still new to some of this stuff...), but would it help if I just went ahead and started a new thread?

You are more than a referee here, You are a voice of reason, There is no reason that I can see to start a new thread because the same things will happen, There are already so many Sabbath threads going now you can not keep up with all,

And I want cliff to answer my post concerning calling me a liar, either he should prove such an accusation or he should remove the post,

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[GypsyBella]

Oh, I didn't mean a Sabbath thread. I meant a thread regarding the position of EGW and the SDA church. I thought that maybe these subjects would be safer in a place like that. We seem to be continually getting "slightly" off track, so I was suggesting that we make a general thread regarding these subjects.

Just a suggestion

 

[deu58]

Hi Gypsy Bella

Oh, I didn't mean a Sabbath thread. I meant a thread regarding the position of EGW and the SDA church. I thought that maybe these subjects would be safer in a place like that. We seem to be continually getting "slightly" off track, so I was suggesting that we make a general thread regarding these subjects.

Just a suggestion

Those threads die pretty fast, there have been a few of them here, SDA's do not really like to discuss their prophetess with the general public,

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[GypsyBella]

Why is it that I don't seem to have that problem locally?

 

[deu58]

Hi Gypsy Bella

Why is it that I don't seem to have that problem locally?

May be because it is private??? I have the same thing here until they find out I know who she is and have done my own research on her,

When I start asking the hard questions, Like I have asked cliff comcerning the 1844 Sabbath, They do not want to talk about her any more,

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[GypsyBella]

This I have noticed. My husband is very hard to talk to about it as well.

 

[Cliff2]

When I start asking the hard questions, Like I have asked cliff comcerning the 1844 Sabbath, They do not want to talk about her any more,

yours in Christ
deu 58

You can ask me about the 1844 Sabbath.

I will tell you now about it. There was none, the Millerites did not believe in the Sabbath. Simple as that, the Sabbath did not come until later.

As I have said the Millerites consisted of Methodists, Church of England and many others.

As this is a thread about

Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath?

If other issues want to be brought up thyen start a new thread so this thread is not high-jacked.

 

[deu58]

Hi Cliff

You can ask me about the 1844 Sabbath.

I will tell you now about it. There was none, the Millerites did not believe in the Sabbath. Simple as that, the Sabbath did not come until later.

As I have said the Millerites consisted of Methodists, Church of England and many others.

As this is a thread about

It is true that true that James and Ellen White did not accept Joseph Bates Sabbath view until 1846, But I am not the one who said the Sabbath was made binding again in 1844,
It was Ellen White that said that,

I saw that the present test on the Sabbath could not come until the mediation of Jesus in the holy place was finished and He had passed within the second veil; therefore Christians who fell asleep before the door was opened into the most holy, when the midnight cry was
43
finished, at the seventh month, 1844, and who had not kept the true Sabbath, now rest in hope; for they had not the light and the test on the Sabbath which we now have since that door was opened. I saw that Satan was tempting some of God's people on this point. Because so many good Christians have fallen asleep in the triumphs of faith and have not kept the true Sabbath, they were doubting about its being a test for us now. {EW 42.3}

Now you called me a liar when I said that SDA doctrines are not based on the Bible, My response is if I am a liar you can easily prove it by providing the scriptural proof that the Sabbath not only became binding in 1844 but also a test that will separate true Christians from apostate Christians, It is Ellen White who set the date of 1844 as the beginning of this new teaching , not me,

and this is still on topic, You say we are violating the 4th commandment, I say we are not because your position is based on a vision that is not supported by the bible. Now your claim that they did not have the light does not hold water, They had the bible just as we do. And yet most Christians kept sunday and according to the Vision They will not be held responsible for it because they did not have the light,

So this light must be from a different source than the Bible, Do you agree?

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Cliff2]

Hi Cliff


It is true that true that James and Ellen White did not accept Joseph Bates Sabbath view until 1846, But I am not the one who said the Sabbath was made binding again in 1844,
It was Ellen White that said that,

I saw that the present test on the Sabbath could not come until the mediation of Jesus in the holy place was finished and He had passed within the second veil; therefore Christians who fell asleep before the door was opened into the most holy, when the midnight cry was
43
finished, at the seventh month, 1844, and who had not kept the true Sabbath, now rest in hope; for they had not the light and the test on the Sabbath which we now have since that door was opened. I saw that Satan was tempting some of God's people on this point. Because so many good Christians have fallen asleep in the triumphs of faith and have not kept the true Sabbath, they were doubting about its being a test for us now. {EW 42.3}

Now you called me a liar when I said that SDA doctrines are not based on the Bible, My response is if I am a liar you can easily prove it by providing the scriptural proof that the Sabbath not only became binding in 1844 but also a test that will separate true Christians from apostate Christians, It is Ellen White who set the date of 1844 as the beginning of this new teaching , not me,

and this is still on topic, You say we are violating the 4th commandment, I say we are not because your position is based on a vision that is not supported by the bible. Now your claim that they did not have the light does not hold water, They had the bible just as we do. And yet most Christians kept sunday and according to the Vision They will not be held responsible for it because they did not have the light,

So this light must be from a different source than the Bible, Do you agree?

yours in Christ
deu 58

No, I do not agree with your conclusion.

The 4th commandment has always been the truth. It was not always understood in the same light that we understand it today.

Take at look at righteousness by faith. It has always been there but not understood the same way as we do toady, thanks to Martin Luther for bring it up to what it is now. Then we have baptism by immersion, just because it was not put into practise for many years does not mean that it is an after thought.

It is the same with the Sabbath. It has always been in the Bible, just not understood the way it should have been. The Sabbath is not based on EGW at all. Never has been and never will be. We do not base the Sabbath or any other doctrine on any visions EGW may have had.

As I have said before, this thread is not about EGW it is about the Sabbath and the commandments.

 

[deu58]

Hi cliff

I am asking for scriptural support that we will be judged by whether or not we keep the sabbath and that this judgment began in 1844

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Cliff2]

Hi cliff

I am asking for scriptural support that we will be judged by whether or not we keep the sabbath and that this judgment began in 1844

yours in Christ
deu 58

Start a thread on the judgement, this thread is on the commandments.

 

[deu58]

Hi cliff

Start a thread on the judgement, this thread is on the commandments.

I am not talking about the investigative judgment, I am talking about the Sabbath being a test for salvation today, I am talking about the fourth commandment cliff, Why will we lose our salvation if we do not accept EGW's vision that the Sabbath became a test starting in 1844 to separate believers from non believers,

Please prove this is true using the Bible.

Take at look at righteousness by faith. It has always been there but not understood the same way as we do toady, thanks to Martin Luther for bring it up to what it is now. Then we have baptism by immersion, just because it was not put into practice for many years does not mean that it is an after thought.

Your church did not embrace the righteousness by faith doctrine until 1888 at the Minneapolis conference and it was taught to them by A. T. Jones and E. J Waggoner, Both of whom were later kicked out of your church!!!!!!


As far as I know Martin Luther studied the bible and simply saw what was already plainly there. It was against the law of the church for the average person to posses a Bible, He received no visions nor claimed to be a Prophet, Nor did he claim that righteousness by faith began circa 1505

http://www.martinluther.info/monastery/index.html

I sought day and night to make out the meaning of Paul; and at last I came to apprehend it thus: Through the gospel is revealed the righteousness which availeth with God—a righteousness by which God, in His mercy and compassion, justifieth us; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.” Straightway I felt as if I were born anew. It was as if I had found the door of Paradise thrown wide open. Now I saw the Scriptures altogether in a new light—I ran through their whole contents as far as my memory would serve, and compared them, and found that this righteousness was really that by which God makes us righteous, because everything else in Scripture agreed thereunto so well. The expression, “the righteousness of God,” which I so much hated before, now became dear and precious—my darling and comforting word.

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Michael5084]

Here is a thought. Some Christians can keep most of the commandments, but they have a hard time keeping one.

 

[deu58]

Hi Michael5084

That would depend on your interpretation of the 4th commandment,

Do you disagree that Jesus is our rest?

Mt 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Mt 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.


Do you choose to reject the rest of Christ to embrace the rest of a shadow?? if so then that is your choice and you are welcome to it, But I chose the rest of the substance which is found in Christ,

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.



I find it interesting that Peter would refer to the Law of Moses as" a Yoke we could not bear" in Acts 15 , I wonder if the words he heard Jesus speak in Matt, 11:28,28 were not on his mind,

Ac 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.



Ac 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Ac 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Ac 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.


Yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Michael5084]

Hi Michael5084

That would depend on your interpretation of the 4th commandment,

Do you disagree that Jesus is our rest?

Mt 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Mt 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.


Do you choose to reject the rest of Christ to embrace the rest of a shadow?? if so then that is your choice and you are welcome to it, But I chose the rest of the substance which is found in Christ,

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.



I find it interesting that Peter would refer to the Law of Moses as" a Yoke we could not bear" in Acts 15 , I wonder if the words he heard Jesus speak in Matt, 11:28,28 were not on his mind,

Ac 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.



Ac 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Ac 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Ac 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.


Yours in Christ
deu 58

No! I never disagree with the Word of God! I am saying, some Christian have a hard time with keep the Commandments. Jesus did say; he that is without sin, cast the first stone.

 

[deu58]

Hi Michael5084

No! I never disagree with the Word of God! I am saying, some Christian have a hard time with keep the Commandments. Jesus did say; he that is without sin, cast the first stone.

???????????????

This topic is about keeping the Jewish Sabbath of the Mosaic law. You say we can keep most of the commandments except 1,

Here is a thought. Some Christians can keep most of the commandments, but they have a hard time keeping one.

So which commandment are you talking about????????

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Cliff2]

I find it interesting that Peter would refer to the Law of Moses as" a Yoke we could not bear" in Acts 15 , I wonder if the words he heard Jesus speak in Matt, 11:28,28 were not on his mind,

Although the law of Moses is still God's law there is a distinct difference beteen the two laws.

The law of Moses was put outside the ark, the law of God was inside the ark.

When we understand that it is not so hard to see that the Sabbath was not Jewish at all. Adam was not a Jew and was given the 7th day to keep holy.

 

[deu58]

Hi Cliff

The law of Moses was put outside the ark, the law of God was inside the ark.

Except the food laws right cliff, Those couple of pages are still left outside the ark, Everything else though that does not fit SDA doctrine is gone though right?

The way you slice and dice the the Scripture and the law to to fit your church doctrines just boggles the mind

It is either all there or it is all gone, The law is one unit of 613 commandments, Either we are under the authority of the Law of Moses or we are under the authority of the law of Christ

As I have said before you SDAs act like there is only one covenant, The old testament, The new testament seems to just be a commentary on how to keep the old testament rather than a new covenant to your church,

yours in Christ
deu 58