Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath?

Cliff2 · Apr 28, 2005

deu58 said:
Hi Cliff

NIce of you to show your respect by calling us unbiblical, I guess it beats the servants of Satan that you used to call me and flesh 99, Nice to see that you have spiritually matured,

yours in Christ
deu58

Have not seen flesh99 around for sometime.

What if I was to say that I will nine of the ten and leave out the seventh one. What would you think?

deu58 · Apr 28, 2005

Hi Cliff

Cliff2 said:
Have not seen flesh99 around for sometime.

What if I was to say that I will nine of the ten and leave out the seventh one. What would you think?

If you will read all of my post to Bright Candle then you we see we do not keep 9 commandments, We keep 10,

I have not seen flesh around either, Did I ever tell you that on the other forum Romeo Sid Vicious was Flesh??

yours in Christ
deu58

Nightfire · Apr 28, 2005

Let's see why God wants Israel to keep the Sabbath...

(Ex. 20:11) For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Check: follow God - be holy, for He is holy. He led them out of Egypt, He will lead them into rest. Rest, because He rested. But where did God take them?

Here's a little story:

Ex. 29:36-37 (The consecration of priests) Sacrifice a bull each day as a sin offering to make atonement. Purify the altar by making atonement for it, and anoint it to consecrate it. For seven days make atonement for the altar and consecrate it. Then the altar will be most holy, and whatever touches it will be holy.

Hebrews 2:16-18 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants. For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.

Hebrews 13:10-12 We have an altar from which those who minister at the tabernacle have no right to eat.
The high priest carries the blood of animals into the Most Holy Place as a sin offering, but the bodies are burned outside the camp. And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood.

So Jesus was the sacrifice atoning for our sins; He purified us by his blood. But He was not a substitute, and did not need a substitute himself (Heb. 9:12). God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:38) as King of Righteousness and High Priest (Heb. 7:11) - and our very own, eternally holy altar. Now he anoints us (2 Cor. 1:20-22) and makes us holy. God created the world, we rested with Him on the Sabbath (Jesus spent Saturday in the tomb), and we rise with Him into the first day of the rest of our new lives - which is the day we celebrate.

Once you are born again, every day is holy, every day is concecrated to God, every day bleeds dry on the altar. Of all the commandments, the fourth is the one that comes closest to the first in everyday significance. We're not tempted to murder, lie or steal every day, but every moment we're tempted to forget that we are already have the life God promised Abraham's descendents. The Sabbath was a gift to Israel, and we only understand the full meaning of it now that we have found rest, now that we can get to it without the help of the Law. Jesus truly kept the Sabbath holy, and we follow Him.

Matthew 23:19-20
You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.

God - the true Light - made all of creation pass through this tunnel called "Law", which includes the "shadow" Sabbath. That was to be our work, our whole duty on earth (Eccles.12:13). His Spirit guided men into it and through it. Christ - the Light of the world - was at the other end. Through Him we found the real Sabbath, the eternal rest.

During his ministry, Jesus emphasized all the commandments in line with their traditional form, except the Sabbath. I think today He would say: "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.' But I tell you that anyone who forgets my rest for even one day, has not kept it."

Hebrews 4:8-10 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his.

Mary_Magdalene · Apr 28, 2005

Again, believe me, I am a stong supporter of the commandments. I actually usually hang out at the MJ side of these forums. But nobody on the SDA side has given a good excuse WHY they support abortion. You can't throw stones in glass houses. Take that BIG OLE PLANK out of your eye before you start accusing others. I guess what it comes down to is does the one true God think abortion is worse than sabbath keeping or lying or coveting? If you dont keep all of them (which, if you supported Kerry-you dont) then just stop judging everyone else until you are all correct on all of them.

Mary_Magdalene · Apr 28, 2005

BrightCandle said:
I did have the "guts" to list my political afflication, which I notice you didn't, and very few of the other CF members don't seem to either.

my mistake. I just assume that Christians are not Democrats. I keep forgetting that just because someone claims to be a follower of the Creator doesnt mean they protect His Creation.

BrightCandle · Apr 30, 2005

deu58 said:
Hi Bright Canadle

If you SDA's are such great believers of religious freedom then why are you constantly harassing those who choose to keep Sunday as being displeasing to God and are practicing apostasy? Why are there reports of bill boards paid for by the SDA's along US high ways attacking Catholics and the Catholic church? I would venture to say the real motivation for your interest in the separation of church and state stems from your belief in the supposed coming ofa Sunday law where the Sabbath is supposed to be outlawed by the government, You are interested only in your own religious freedom. Not ours, Your prejudicial actions and words against other denominations that have never harmed or moved against your church give weight to this,

yours in Christ
deu58

Dear deu58:

You don't have a correct understanding of religious freedom. The SDA church's lawyers have gone to court to protect the rights of other religious groups that don't keep the Sabbath like the the Amish, and Jehovah's Witness, etc. when their religious freedoms were in jeapordy. True religious freedom allows one to challenge the belief of the Roman Catholics and other Protestants and vice versa without worrying about getting your head cut off, or being thrown in jail, or burnt at the stake.

In the Sabbath verse Sunday threads in the CF forum we are discussing a biblical issue and I can guarantee you that if you don't end up keeping the Sabbath after all is said and done, the SDA church would be the last group to attack you or keep you from keeping Sunday! In fact we are probably one of the few Christian denominations left in the USA that is continues to lobby Congress to not do away with the inspired model of the seperation of religious power and secular powers in a nation's federal government.

BrightCandle · Apr 30, 2005

Godschosengirl said:
my mistake. I just assume that Christians are not Democrats. I keep forgetting that just because someone claims to be a follower of the Creator doesnt mean they protect His Creation.

You are over simplifying the issue. All Rebuplicans are not for outlawing all abortions, and all Demoracrats are not for legalizing abortions for any reason. Additionally, I have never given any money ot the Democratic party, and now that JK lost the election for president it is a non-issue.

This is an imperfect world and sometimes you have to use godly judgement is making the best choice in a situation that doesn't offer any really nice choices. Like I said in an earlier post, SDA hospitals only perform abortions in cases of the women's life being threatened, or I believe in cases of rape.

BrightCandle · Apr 30, 2005

Godschosengirl said:
Again, believe me, I am a stong supporter of the commandments. I actually usually hang out at the MJ side of these forums. But nobody on the SDA side has given a good excuse WHY they support abortion. You can't throw stones in glass houses. Take that BIG OLE PLANK out of your eye before you start accusing others. I guess what it comes down to is does the one true God think abortion is worse than sabbath keeping or lying or coveting? If you dont keep all of them (which, if you supported Kerry-you dont) then just stop judging everyone else until you are all correct on all of them.

Just because someone voted for JK doesn't mean they are breaking the 6th commandment! SDAs believe in keeping all Ten Commandments. The 4th Commandment is a black and white issue, namely you either keep the Sabbath on the 7th day, or you don't. The abortions issue is not a black and white issue. Because the circumstances surrounding the abortion have to be taken into consideration. That is why there is so much discussion as to what types of abortions should be legal, and what types should not be legal.

deu58 · Apr 30, 2005

Hi Bright candle

BrightCandle said:
Dear deu58:

You don't have a correct understanding of religious freedom. The SDA church's lawyers have gone to court to protect the rights of other religious groups that don't keep the Sabbath like the the Amish, and Jehovah's Witness, etc. when their religious freedoms were in jeapordy. True religious freedom allows one to challenge the belief of the Roman Catholics and other Protestants and vice versa without worrying about getting your head cut off, or being thrown in jail, or burnt at the stake.

In the Sabbath verse Sunday threads in the CF forum we are discussing a biblical issue and I can guarantee you that if you don't end up keeping the Sabbath after all is said and done, the SDA church would be the last group to attack you or keep you from keeping Sunday! In fact we are probably one of the few Christian denominations left in the USA that is continues to lobby Congress to not do away with the inspired model of the seperation of religious power and secular powers in a nation's federal government.

Well maybe so and if so hats off to you, As for me I have very little use for politicians of any stripe, I mean it has gotten to the point where the only weapon of mass destruction we have to worry about IS George Bush,

I myself am a Monarchist and I have cast my vote for a Jewish King, I am anxiuosly awaiting the coronation because I have it on good authority that
we monarchists have won,

So now a couple of us have replied to your original thought on this thread concerning the 4th commandment so can we get back to that subject??

yours in Christ
deu 58

BrightCandle · Apr 30, 2005

deu58 said:
Hi Bright candle

Well maybe so and if so hats off to you, As for me I have very little use for politicians of any stripe, I mean it has gotten to the point where the only weapon of mass destruction we have to worry about IS George Bush,

I myself am a Monarchist and I have cast my vote for a Jewish King, I am anxiuosly awaiting the coronation because I have it on good authority that
we monarchists have won,

So now a couple of us have replied to your original thought on this thread concerning the 4th commandment so can we get back to that subject??

yours in Christ
deu 58

Yes, I agree, I just thought I should answer the posts directed at my current political affiliation. I know that GWB has really turned off a lot of people overseas, but I really don't think that he is a bad person. I do believe that he wants to bring freedom to countries that have never experienced it before. However, I also believe that there are those who are in key postions in GWB's cabinet that should be replaced with wiser and broader minded individuals, who can give GWB wiser counsel.

DrBubbaLove · Apr 30, 2005

Have read the Jews never really called it "THE TEN" and if you read either version of it in the Bible you will see differences are differences and that there are technically more than ten commands. At most could see a good arguement for two groups of commands, one concerning God and the one concerning our relations with other men.

Since our Lord said if you Love God with all your heart, then love each other as you love yourself, all the rest of the commandments fall into place. That would seem to support the idea that what we call "The Ten" is really a "collection of commands" (something closer to what the Jews called it I think) that really break down into just two, Love God, love others.

Is there really no way someone could love God with all thier heart regardless of which day they set aside?

deu58 · Apr 30, 2005

Hi dr bubba

DrBubbaLove said:
Have read the Jews never really called it "THE TEN" and if you read either version of it in the Bible you will see differences are differences and that there are technically more than ten commands. At most could see a good arguement for two groups of commands, one concerning God and the one concerning our relations with other men.

Since our Lord said if you Love God with all your heart, then love each other as you love yourself, all the rest of the commandments fall into place. That would seem to support the idea that what we call "The Ten" is really a "collection of commands" (something closer to what the Jews called it I think) that really break down into just two, Love God, love others.

Is there really no way someone could love God with all thier heart regardless of which day they set aside?

yes this true, To the Jews and Jesus there were 613 commandments, Not just ten, Nor did they view the law in three sections like we do today, It was one seamless unit, All the commandments are interlocked so either they all stand together or they all fall together, That is where the idea of if you break one commandment you brak them all,

yours in Christ
deu 58

DrBubbaLove · Apr 30, 2005

so you are saying then that one cannot love God with all one's heart unless you observe Saturday.

deu58 · Apr 30, 2005

hi dr bubba

DrBubbaLove said:
so you are saying then that one cannot love God with all one's heart unless you observe Saturday.

In a nut shell yes that is what they are saying, Their prohetess said many things about how the true worshippers will accept their sabbath doctrine and the rest of us would be rejected by God because we rejected him by not following the Sabbath,

The SDA's beleive that Sunday will be the Mark of the beast, Their prophetess also said that any one who heard their sabbath message and did not accept it would lose their salvation,

this is what they call their Third Angels Message,

Miscellaneous Collections, The Kress Collection Pg 102

But God did not design that the medical missionary work should eclipse the work of the third angels message. The arm is not to become the body. The third angel's message is the Gospel message for these last days, and in no case is it to be overshadowed by other interests and made to appear as an unessential consideration. When in our institutionsanything is placed above the third angel's message, the gospel is not there, the great leading power.

Historical Sketches of the Foreign Missions of the Seventh Day Adventists. Pg 234
Rising in the congregation, he said, "This Sabbath question has been a great trouble to me during the last year, and now I would like to ask a question: Is the observance of the Sabbath necessary to my salvation? Answer, yes or no." I answered promptly, This is an important question, and demands something more full than yes or no. All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light. But none will be held accountable for light which they have never received.

Ellen G White in Europe 1885-1887 By D.A Delafield
Ch 14 The First Visit to Italy.
......tried to tell him that if a person had light on the Sabbath he could not be saved while rejecting it. {EGWE 141.4}

I pray that my brethren may realize that the third angel's message means much to us, and that the observance of the true Sabbath is to be the sign that distinguishes those who serve God from those who serve Him not.

yours in Christ
deu 58

Cliff2 · May 1, 2005

No one has received tha mark of the beast yet.

It is true that we will be judged according to the light we have had.

We will not be held accountable for something we did not have the chance to know.

deu58 · May 1, 2005

Hi cliff

Cliff2 said:
No one has received tha mark of the beast yet.

It is true that we will be judged according to the light we have had.

We will not be held accountable for something we did not have the chance to know.

So those of us here who do not accept your "light", where does that leave us? Our salvation is dependent upon accepting your SDA teachings????

even though they are not really biblical??

History is repeating itself for the SDA church, Your pioneers said the same thing about the Christians of their day who would not accept the failed 1844 time setting scheme as lost for rejecting Gods truth, The original SDA shut door doctrine, Which also failed,

The "shut-door" doctrine formed a part of the doctrine of the church; that is, Mrs. White had seen in vision that the day of salvation for sinners was past, and those that fully believed in her visions as coming from God, also accepted that doctrine. I did not believe the doctrine nor teach it;
excerpt from the autobiography of Gilbert Cranmer. Disfellowshipped for not accepting the visions of Ellen White.

Great Controversy pg 457
The preaching of a definite time for the judgment, in the giving of the first message, was ordered by God. The computation of the prophetic periods on which that message was based, placing the close of the 2300 days in the autumn of 1844, stands without impeachment.

Early Writings, p. 261.
I saw that as the Jews crucified Jesus, so the nominal churches had crucified these messages and therefore they have no knowledge of the way into the most holy, and they cannot be benefited by the intercession of Jesus there. Like the Jews, who offered their useless sacrifices, they offer up their useless prayers to the apartment which Jesus has left; and Satan, pleased with the deception, assumes a religious character, and leads the minds of these professed Christians to himself .

mr 5 pg 204 1850
Then I saw Laodiceans. They will make a mighty effort. Will they get the victory? One who has the truth will chase a thousand, and two will put ten thousand to flight. They are coming to conclusions that bring them into close quarters and they cannot tell where they be themselves, for they are lost in the foggy, terrible fear that takes hold of them. Anguish of spirit will seize them. Dare they admit that the door is shut? The sin against the Holy Ghost was to ascribe to Satan what belongs to God, or what the Holy Ghost has done. They said the shut door was of the devil, and now admit it is against their own lives. They shall die the death.

Laodocians were the Christians of her day that would not accept her visions as Gods Present Truth for us today, One really has to wonder about a church leader who eagerly anticipates the death of other Christians,

yours in Christ
deu 58

deu58 · May 1, 2005

Hi Cliff

Never once have any SDA's here said we do not believe that you can believe what ever one wants to. If you or anyone wants to worship on any day of the week that is your right. We have the same right to worship on the 7th day as the Sabbath according to the Bible.

I notice for you SDA's you have the biblical right but the rest of us do not???

yours in Christ
deu 58

Cliff2 · May 1, 2005

deu58 said:
Hi Cliff

I notice for you SDA's you have the biblical right but the rest of us do not???

yours in Christ
deu 58

That is not even correct.

You and anyone else can believe what ever they like. God forces no one to believe in what is said in the Bible.

It is uo to each individual to find out what is the truth.

Smidlee · May 1, 2005

BrightCandle said:
It has been amusing to me, here in the United States, regarding all the recent concern that Christian judges, churches, and organizations have regarding the removal of various historic monuments of the Ten Commandments in public places, like court houses, capital buildings, parks, etc., etc., while the majority of Christians in favor of the their not being removed are not keeping the 4th Commandment [7th day Sabbath]. The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), could easily point out this inconsistency to the embarassment of those Christians calling for the Ten Commandments to not be removed on the grounds that their visibility in public places will discourage lawlessness, while the very same Christians are being "lawless" by breaking the 4th Commandment.

The public display of the Ten Commandment is a flag ,if I may, that witness there is a law greater than man's law and to reminded those in power that they are accountible to God from their action and judgements. It has nothing to do with the Sabbath or everyone has to go to church on Sunday either. ACLU who making a bigger deal over the ten commandment. What ACLU has done has replace the Ten Commandments as this flag with the Constitution itself. The constitution is now become a religious document as the government preach Democracy to the world like a religion.

deu58 · May 1, 2005

Hi cliff

Cliff2 said:
That is not even correct.

You and anyone else can believe what ever they like. God forces no one to believe in what is said in the Bible.

It is uo to each individual to find out what is the truth.

Once again you avoid actually answering the question, You should change your handle to the Artful Dodger,

The question is Cliff do we who disagree with you have the biblical right as you SDA's claim you have, Under the New Testament covenant to worship on the day of our choosing?

Also my previous question, According to SDA doctrine what is the status of those of us who reject you, your prophetess and your third angels message as being from God and do not believe that you have any new truth to berevealed to this or any other generation,

Just the facts cliff,

yours in Christ
deu 58

Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath?

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